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Bournemouth - Post match

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This should end the misguided experiment of playing Lucas as a centre back, Lovren is not the same player on the left side and surely to god a proper defender aka Klavan should have played there. We threw 3 valuable points away with the sort of sloppy complacent lazy display that I thought was behind us.
 
You're talking to someone - ostensibly an adult - who appears to have come to believe that he's a combination of Rinus Michels, Georgio Armani and The Fonz. It's a losing battle.

You're weirdly fascinated with me though.

Why is that?
 
I wish West Ham had won yesterday - and did not get thrashed so badly by Arsenal - you just know they will be on high alert next week - fucks sake this is terrible for us all. Cannot believe we lost that game just shocked - how ? how ? - watching the first half you just thought there was absolutely no hope for those fuckers and to come out of it as losers ..... cannot be for real.
 


4 mins, 53 seconds - watch the 10 seconds that follow.

We have 10 fucking players in the box. 10. And Cook has time - 8 yards out in the centre of the goal - to control a ball with his foot that's chest high, bring it down, and half-volley into the net.

I wish I could Carragher-freeze-frame it at 4.57mins (if anyone can do that, please help a brother out). Every single one of our fuckers ball-watching. Not one of them in that 3-4 second space of time when the cross was coming in did any of them think to look for a man, get tight, or be in any way proactive.

There's no point having 10 in the box if they're going to ballwatch and run towards the goal.

Shit shit defending, that starts on the training ground.
 
I have slept over it and still feel angry and wanting to curse and swear at our players!
 
Horrible.

The first 30 minutes was frantic and our players looked very tired. Mane did well for the goals but was incredibly shite for the vast majority of the game.

We looked half arsed at times and Klopp was furious on the side line trying to direct and orchestrate the team. When we went 3-1 up, I thought for sure we'd close up shop. We looked very leggy and were obviously struggling a bit with our shape. Klopp must have fallen asleep as we were in desperate need of fresh legs and a change in strategy and formation.

I'm so pissed off as that never should have happened. Rubbish by all concerned
 
Horrendous stuff that. We were so dominant and in control in that first half...like they couldn't get near us and I remember thinking the only way we fuck this up now is if we get complacent and let them back in...we unfortunately were and we paid the price. I bet Bournemouth couldn't believe their luck.

It's wrong to single out individuals in such circumstances because the whole team bottled it but that Karius needs to sharpen the fuck up and quickly. Why the fuck can we not find a fucking goalkeeper that saves stuff, is it too much to ask? Bloody hell.
 
Its a tough loss, but we are not as good yet that we will be smashing unbeaten runs records easily. Its better to loose a freak match to a hard fighting Bournemouth than being teared a new one by top four contenders.

What worries me most is that we seem to struggle more to keep the flow. The way we have controlled games by high intens press and moving the ball easily is demanding... And we need to hit form again before xmas. That program is very demanding and given injuries to key players we will have to rely on inexperienced replacements with not much time to gel them in. And January is crucial as well with semis in League cup. Kloppo and Buvac has to hefty months ahead of them. I am glad we have them to lead us through.
 
at 2-3 we went into our shell and went from defending smartly (as we have in previous games) to just trying to sit back and put bodies in the way. As has been mentioned - many errors resulting in the lead up to the goals. Frustrating game, just hope we bounce back big time. Chelsea are looking unstoppable, and we need to do what we can to remain part of the breakaway with Arsenal as City are faltering and not allow Spurs back into the Top 4 group..
 
You have got to give Howe some credit with his changes not just the subs but the way they pressed in our half after the break which they didn't do in numbers in the first half.Fair play to them, obviously with the benefit of hindsight the sub for Mane should have been Klaven . At 3- 1 it looked as if we were pushing for an equaliser, the similarities with that Crystal Palace game are wierd. Karius apart Origi has to take a lot of the opprobrium, 2 shocking misses gave the ball away carelessly at the start of the move for the second and a terrible nothing challenge for the third. I thought his pressing was pretty half hearted too - certainly no better than Sturridge.
 


4 mins, 53 seconds - watch the 10 seconds that follow.

We have 10 fucking players in the box. 10. And Cook has time - 8 yards out in the centre of the goal - to control a ball with his foot that's chest high, bring it down, and half-volley into the net.

I wish I could Carragher-freeze-frame it at 4.57mins (if anyone can do that, please help a brother out). Every single one of our fuckers ball-watching. Not one of them in that 3-4 second space of time when the cross was coming in did any of them think to look for a man, get tight, or be in any way proactive.

There's no point having 10 in the box if they're going to ballwatch and run towards the goal.

Shit shit defending, that starts on the training ground.


Sometimes you get beaten by a bit of brilliance, that was a peerless drag down turn and shot that was worthy of the very best strikers.
 
Ten years of Houllier and Benitez (and the likes of Hyypia, Carra, Hamman, Reina) has made me incredibly irritated with poor defending.
 
Shit shit defending, that starts on the training ground.

Yes, but this isn't a one off, we're seeing it over and over and over again when we have to do some defending. If this is coachable, why isn't it being coached? Are the players not good enough, or is the defensive coaching not good enough, must be one or the other, or both. Which is worrying.
I personally think we'd be making the same mistakes with really good defenders in there.
 
It shows that players like Phil a Lallana not only creates chances, but they controll the game by putting other teams under pressure by smart use of the ball and constant movement. So we are very voulnerable when these guys are out injured. Our midfield didn't cope with the fight Bournemouth threw at us, and all credit for them for not dying on Can's goal.

But it is marginal. It was not even a centimeter left of the ball not crossing the line for a 4-1 lead. That would definately earned us a point!!! ;-)
 
yeah , we've looked alot better with matip.

Lucas actually stepped up pretty well yesterday , he was sound enough. Strange that we spent £5m on klavan and he doesn't get a sniff though..

id have argued that going 3-2 would have been opportune to bring milner into the middle and pack the pitch from the goal to half way line , they were getting forwards far too easily.

neither Henderson or can are holding or particularly defensively minded , they can both tackle sure but they aren't going to protect your back four , ever.

I don't think the back four would have retreated so badly if Mario were playing but if you want protection for west ham wed do well to stick Lucas in front of the back 4.
 
Matip is our best CB, but the defence still make mistakes when he's playing. Hence the amount of clean sheets we've kept.
 
So, now all the anger and recriminations have died down, we can have a more measured and calm look at the game and ratings.

It all looked quite easy in the first half, with Bournemouth almost incapable of getting out of their own half, and Liverpool looking assured and dominant. There was a case to be made for even more goals, with Origi missing a sitter and several wasted opportunities.

But the home team decided to make a fight of it in the second half, with Wilshere coming to life and the energy of their substitute who ran full pace at our creaking defence, causing a dreadful collapse. Suddenly Henderson was looking swamped in midfield, and Liverpool were rocking back on their heels, with Karius suddenly far busier. Then all hell broke loose; poor clearances, clumsy challenges, slow-footed and slow-brained defending, inept, twitchy goalkeeping - once again our obvious defensive and goalkeeping problems all came to the fore; we lost control and discipline entirely and it happens too often under Klopp, who certainly made several mistakes in his team selection and subs.

We have the worst defence in the Top 8 of the league, which is a terrible stat.

Karius (4) Some good distribution and made some decent saves, but he provides almost zero confidence in team or fans. He's so fucking twitchy at times he looks like a jonesing crackhead at 3am. He made one save that was so weirdly unorthodox it was almost funny. And then he simply fell apart. I'm not sure the answer is Mignolet, because he's shit aswell, but Karius must improve or he can fuck off.

Clyne (7) He was energetic and offered plenty of support in attack and set up one sitter that Origi missed. Good game.

Lucas (5) I have no idea why he played. Is Klavan that shit? Lucas looks OK when there isn't much defending to do, and he can pass it around. As soon as there's some actually central defending required, though, his chronic lack of pace and height, allied to the fact he isn't a central defender, means we struggle. Should never play there again. Or hopefully anywhere.

Lovren (4) Culpable in at least two of the goals, and went to pieces in the last half an hour, with a slew of mistakes and positional errors. We need another CB.

Milner (6) A good display in attack and defence was marred by giving away a penalty after fouling the livewire Fraser, and he looked affected by that afterwards.

Henderson (7) Imperious in the first half, when he had time and space to dictate, Henderson created two or three good chances - one scored by Origi - but he was left badly exposed by his CM partners in the second, as he was overrun and allowed the defence to be peppered.

Can (8) Made some great tackles and won the ball back on several occasions, smacked in a glorious goal too, but he should have been more defensively aware in the second half, and dropped back.

Wijnaldum (7) Industry and skill, this was a stylish display, without really creating much of note.

Mane (7) It's difficult to rate when a player scores one, makes one, but then has an otherwise erratic and even sloppy game. Brilliant and deadly and awful.

Origi (7) Another for whom the goal merits an extra rating point, and what a beautiful finish it was from a clever ball by Henderson; pace, power and precision. He missed an embarrassing sitter earlier, and there was - like Mane - some horribly sloppy passing and play as Bournemouth got back into the game, but goals are what he's there to do, and it was a lovely goal indeed.

Firmino (4) He's not really suited to playing wide, as he has no pace, so it was frustrating to see him struggle out there. Did almost nothing of note all game, and while he isn't know for his finishing, he struggled to even get a shot away, and posed almost zero goal threat.

Klopp (4). Picked the wrong side, couldn't change it when we started to get overrun. Poor.
 
Lucas definitely was better than a 5 for me and milner higher than a 6. Other than that , id agree
 
We are turning into Kevin Keegan's Newcastle aren't we? It's really happening.
If Klopp goes into the transfer market in Jan it's going to be for an attacker isn't it, that's exactly what Keegan would have done.

We need a GK - Karius isn't even a shot stopper is he. The only way round this I can see is if Mignolet is sold, so we then can get another one in. He's not going to sell Karius obv, and he's not good enough, although the defence infront of him isn't helping at all.............
I haven't had a chance to go throuh the whole thread yet so I'm sure there will be plenty of support from the usual suspects for Mors' POV.

However I'm not sure there is too much between Karius and Mignolet at the moment (though Mignolet actually didn't do anything 'wrong' in the games he's played so far this season). Different styles means you have different strengths and weaknesses. It seems Karius, with his willingness to come out, play sweeper and his far superior distribution, even though far inferior shot-stopping (nothing in it for crosses, maybe Karius shades it) are qualities Klopp values more as better suited to the team's style and tactics. That may be worth more to us in the long run.

Karius was far better in Germany, and Klopp's scouting and coaching teams certainly know what he's capable of far better than Karius' detractors on here, though for whatever reason he hasn't settled yet, however the Bundesliga's #2 keeper doesn't lose it overnight. Therefore I'd give him a lot more time to settle, that will give him confidence and hopefully a considerable step up in performance levels. At least I believe his ceiling is far higher than Mignolet's so therefore worth persevering with.

As far as not holding the powerful shot for the winning goal that bounced just in front of him ... De Gea did exactly the same vs. Everton but he got lucky and it bounced well clear. That wasn't a defining indication of the difference between a very good and an average keeper.
 
Again without having read through the thread (except the first page - and I don't agree with all of Brendan's ratings, he's far too generous to a team that conceded 3 goals in 15 minutes) these are my ratings :

Karius (5)
Clyne (7)
Lucas (5)
Lovren (3)
Milner (5) Ridiculous decision to dive in giving away the penalty - it may even have run of play but the striker was covered anyway.
Henderson (6) He, along with all of the midfield (hence their low scores) went missing in the 2nd half.
Can (6) Not sure how Brendan can give him an 8 when he was AWOL when we needed him most. Great goal though.
Wijnaldum (5) Also went missing when we desperately needed to shore up the midfield and control play.
Mane (6) Hot and cold.
Origi (7) MotM. If only he'd gone with his left instead of his right. Goal and an assist and generally made things very difficult for their defence.
Firmino (4) He really doesn't like playing wide left and looked out of sorts all game despite his usual excellent close control.

Klopp (2) Was this his worst managerial performance ? Poor team selection, poor subs and slow to act. Not sure there was any redeeming feature to his decisions yesterday.
 
Would agree except Lucas was ok so a 6, Wijnaldum should have closed down the shot that won the game so although he played well he is a 6, Origi brilliant goal hideous miss poor defensive work he should be a 6 and Firmino was very good as certainly not a 4, obviously he is your boot boy, but he deserved a 7 afaic
 
If this was a poor team selection who should have been in? I don't get this, we had a very inexperienced bench. With the benefit of hindsight the subs could have been different but i don't see who should have started.
 
Would agree except Lucas was ok so a 6, Wijnaldum should have closed down the shot that won the game so although he played well he is a 6, Origi brilliant goal hideous miss poor defensive work he should be a 6 and Firmino was very good as certainly not a 4, obviously he is your boot boy, but he deserved a 7 afaic

Firmino did nothing, so a (7) ratings is laughable
 
If this was a poor team selection who should have been in? I don't get this, we had a very inexperienced bench. With the benefit of hindsight the subs could have been different but i don't see who should have started.

Klavan should have started, obviously
 
Lucas definitely was better than a 5 for me and milner higher than a 6. Other than that , id agree
Lucas has nothing to do with their goals.
Ryan was right about us not closing down their players fast enough. That's solely on our midfield.
I'd argue that our midfield cost us the game not our back 4.
 
Lucas has nothing to do with their goals.
Ryan was right about us not closing down their players fast enough. That's solely on our midfield.
I'd argue that our midfield cost us the game not our back 4.

Bollocks. The goalkeeper fucked up twice and Lovren was fucking hopeless, Lucas not much better. They didn't do their job.
 
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