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Current Sorry State of play.. Starting 11 assessment Vs Spurs

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6TimesaRed

6TimesaRed

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That line up as I see it..

Mingolet - Not good enough
Lovren - Shit, back problems probably means he is past it
Matip - At best, probably a decent backup
Gomez - Never a first 11 starter week in week out... Great Potential though..
Moreno - Despite his resurgence in form not a great left Back. Should of been replaced in the summer. Oh he was by Robertson, which strangely is getting no where near the team
Henderson - Captain Sideways.. Worst captain we have had at this club in years.. just not good enough..
Can - Useless inconsistent JUDAS cunt
Milner - past his best. Better left back than he is a midfielder
Salah. Only positive. Immense player
Firminio.. Goes missing, does not score enough goals for a number 9
Coutinhio - Shows signs of brilliance, heads thinking of Barca. Goes missing in games far too often


Other players worth noting:

Karius - Equally as shit as mingolet, if not worse. Him and Can seem to concentrate more on their image than their actual football.
Klavan - Think Pellegrino and we are doing Pellegrino a dis-service
The Ox - 35 million WTF? Makes the money spent on Carroll look like a Torres type signing
Sturridge - He's gone. Injuries have taken their toll, past it..
Winjaldum - I like him, but can't play away from home, appears useless when it comes to that..
Mane - Our best Player alongside Salah
TAA - like Gomez, never a first 11 starter week in week out.. Great Potential!!

Clyne - We miss him, our most consistent player, and him not being in the side shows..

Manager Klopp: Lost it in the Summer had a chance to sort the defence out. But opted against it. Slowly testing my patience.. Has to sort out our defence in January, though if I was Van Dyke right now I'd have Klopps number on Auto block..

In a nut shell we are quite unbalanced and mostly shite

Regards

JoNo
 
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RedNinja said:
Manager Klopp: Lost it in the Summer had a chance to sort the defence out. But opted against it. Slowly testing my patience.. Has to sort out our defence in January, though if I was Van Dyke right now I'd have Klopps number on Auto block..
Click to expand...
Before anyone thinks Klopp has the final say or calls the shot, do consider the following (some of which I have previously raised in other threads):

- Did his part/exercised his charm offensive of convincing VVD and Keita to join us. Delivering part was TC's job.
​
- Lovren awarded contract extension + Can contract limbo​
​
- Signing of AOC​
​
- Settling for "the kind of project" signing in Robertson + bringing Moreno back into the fold as starting XI (having made just 2 starts last season) and ahead of Milner who suddenly couldn't get a game despite being one of the LB in the league who created most chances as oppose to claiming "There aren't five better centre-halves than what we already have" for the centre back position​
​

​
- Salah: ex-target (before going to Chelsea)​
Mane: ex-target (before going to Southampton)​
(Linked with a host of left backs before settling for) Robertson: domestic market​
Wijnaldum: domestic market​
Solanke (who was largely frozen out last season due to reluctance to sign contract extension): domestic market​
AOC: domestic market​
​
Karius, Klavan, Grujic, Matip, Manninger: any coincidence that these lot cost below £5m (individually)​
Keita will be the exception - arriving only after more than 2 years managing the club.​

My main point is: Just because Klopp isn't as publicly negative as Mourinho/Conte and doesn't air dirty linen doesn't mean it's fair for him to shoulder the blame for others behind the scene. To me, it's pretty clear his hands are/were tied. Just think of our starting XI - how many can we say are Klopp signings or ones he really wanted (ala Keita/VVD)? I refuse to believe he thinks he can improve all the players he inherit (esp. so after 2 years in charge and knowing them) and does not want to sign replacements.

I won't begrudge Klopp leaving for Bayern if they make an approach. In fact, I think he deserves better.
 
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I don't really see what you're looking for. If the club has owners who'll break the bank, you'll get really good players. If the club has FSG, you'll not see anything happen.
 
Klopp has claimed he decides which players come and which leave (just like Rodgers said the same thing) so either he's telling the truth and i personally believe that he is or he's lying but too weak to admit that he doesn't have the final say which is what i believe Rodgers did.
 
King Binny said:
Before anyone thinks Klopp has the final say or calls the shot, do consider the following (some of which I have previously raised in other threads):

- Did his part/exercised his charm offensive of convincing VVD and Keita to join us. Delivering part was TC's job.

- Lovren awarded contract extension + Can contract limbo

- Signing of AOC
Dec 2016: Klopp rejects Oxlade-Chamberlain rumours as 'nonsense'
Oct 2017: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain isn't ready for central midfield role at Liverpool, says manager Jurgen Klopp

- Settling for "the kind of project" signing in Robertson + bringing Moreno back into the fold as starting XI (having made just 2 starts last season) and ahead of Milner who suddenly couldn't get a game despite being one of the LB in the league who created most chances as oppose to claiming "There aren't five better centre-halves than what we already have" for the centre back position


- Salah: ex-target (before going to Chelsea)
Mane: ex-target (before going to Southampton)
(Linked with a host of left backs before settling for) Robertson: domestic market
Wijnaldum: domestic market
Solanke (who was largely frozen out last season due to reluctance to sign contract extension): domestic market
AOC: domestic market

Karius, Klavan, Grujic, Matip, Manninger: any coincidence that these lot cost below £5m (individually)
Keita will be the exception - arriving only after more than 2 years managing the club.​


My main point is: Just because Klopp isn't as publicly negative as Mourinho/Conte and doesn't air dirty linen doesn't mean it's fair for him to shoulder the blame for others behind the scene. To me, it's pretty clear his hands are/were tied. Just think of our starting XI - how many can we say are Klopp signings or ones he really wanted (ala Keita/VVD)? I refuse to believe he thinks he can improve all the players he inherit (esp. so after 2 years in charge and knowing them) and does not want to sign replacements.

I won't begrudge Klopp leaving for Bayern if they make an approach. In fact, I think he deserves better.
Click to expand...


Before I correctly dismiss the entirety of your post as egregious nonsense, I'll give you a chance:

Re: Oxlade-Chamberpot. What point exactly are you trying to make? He didn't really want him and was somehow forced/ had his hands tied?

Well?

Let me sit down and strap in
 
manwithnoname said:
Before I correctly dismiss the entirety of your post as egregious nonsense, I'll give you a chance:

Re: Oxlade-Chamberpot. What point exactly are you trying to make? He didn't really want him and was somehow forced/ had his hands tied?

Well?

Let me sit down and strap in
Click to expand...

Just consider the entire post as egregious nonsense if none of the points raised can suggest that Klopp has the final say (which is what many/some fans seem to think). I just thought there is more than the eye meets.

My inclusion of AOC in the list is similar to my thought about the Robertson and Solanke signings:

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/tick-tock.106067/page-9#post-1608692
klopp4.jpg


Anyway, I won't rant anymore - not that it will change anything.
 
RedNinja said:
Clyne - We miss him, our most consistent player, and him not being in the side shows..
Click to expand...

I'm not having this revisionist stuff around Clyne that's creeping in of late. He had a poor season last year marked by some defensive errors and very poor output going forwards.
 
That point from Carragher, about 4 of the back 5 being Rodgers signings, would be a valid criticism of the club, if Klopp hadn't bought a centre half, a keeper and a left back. two of them have been rubbish and the left back can't get a game. The midfield was typically flat yesterday, yet Klopp's own signings (Grujic and AOC) started on the bench.

You can't moan about Klopp having to use the previous managers players, when he keeps his own sat on the bench. If he doesn't trust his own signings then that's a more worrying scenario.
 
He certainly talked up the signings of Klavan, Matip and Karius. He now doesn't play two of them and Matip has been a mixed bag.
 
I honestly am torn on all this.

Klopps clearly at fault for not signing adequate depth in the summer, or buying players to oust the dross... But sometimes players can monumentally let you down

In the facts and figures stuff, the Matip lovren partnership doesn't look bad on the whole, but there are certain times lovren is confused about what sport is going on.

Maybe klopp thought lovren turned a corner (good amount of clean sheets tail end of last year) and thought he'd persist.

We've seen lovren enough for years to know that he's a liability, klopp maybe just thought he'd finally broke through to him, like he has with Moreno (touch wood)

Now, if January we don't spend a good whack on a centre back, and a centre mid, then klopps fucked in my eyes. A clinical finisher would be great, but the tier we need, not many would be available who aren't cup tied.
 
Reina. Arbeloa. Carragher. Hyypia. Aurelio. Mascherano. Alonso. Coutinho. Salah. Gerrard. Torres

My team for Huddersfield.
 
mark1975 said:
He certainly talked up the signings of Klavan, Matip and Karius. He now doesn't play two of them and Matip has been a mixed bag.
Click to expand...
Why would he talk them down ? He must manage their confidence and their feelings as human beings, in front of the press. What he actually thinks and says behind closed doors is something else of course.
 
I reckon Binny has a point.

We were chasing Walcott during Rodgers time (quick, thick, injury prone winger who has always wanted to play in the centre) and then when he signed a new contract we moved on to Oxo Cube (quick, thick, injury prone winger who has always wanted to play in the centre).

Surely both Rodgers and Klopp aren't dumb enough to look at those two similar players and decide that they are perfect for Liverpool?

It reminds me of my time playing Football manager. I'd go to search and look for players with 15+ speed/acceleration, going out of contract.

The Robertson situation is also mystifying. We spent an entire season watching a midfielder play at left back as he didn't rate Moreno, so surely if Roberson was Klopp's second, third or fourth choice then they would go straight into the team.

Don't get me wrong, he's made some obviously bad signings that are all on him. But like Rodgers, there are a couple of signings which just seemed wrong from the outset.
 
Frogfish said:
Why would he talk them down ? He must manage their confidence and their feelings as human beings, in front of the press. What he actually thinks and says behind closed doors is something else of course.
Click to expand...

I was challenging the notion that maybe these signing aren't his own, and Carraghers point about 4 of the back 5 being Rodgers's signings. He bought three defenders and a keeper, yet only one of them figures regularly. That's on Klopp.
 
mark1975 said:
I was challenging the notion that maybe these signing aren't his own, and Carraghers point about 4 of the back 5 being Rodgers's signings. He bought three defenders and a keeper, yet only one of them figures regularly. That's on Klopp.
Click to expand...
Karius and Matip were bought for the first team. We know the story with Karius. Despite us, the fans, thinking otherwise it seems Robertson clearly wasn't. Klavan obviously wasn't.

I really don't get the Robertson signing (though he himself explained why he's not making the bench), did Moreno improve that much ? I though Robertson looked a decent enough FB, with a great cross, in the matches he's played.
 
keniget said:
I thought Binny's post was fairly reasonable. I'm in no way trying to be a Klopp apologist, but we don't know the ins and outs of player recruitment at the club.

Not quite sure why he got shit in response.
Click to expand...

Well the alternative is that Klopp is lying publicly that he has the final say.
 
mark1975 said:
That point from Carragher, about 4 of the back 5 being Rodgers signings, would be a valid criticism of the club, if Klopp hadn't bought a centre half, a keeper and a left back. two of them have been rubbish and the left back can't get a game. The midfield was typically flat yesterday, yet Klopp's own signings (Grujic and AOC) started on the bench.

You can't moan about Klopp having to use the previous managers players, when he keeps his own sat on the bench. If he doesn't trust his own signings then that's a more worrying scenario.
Click to expand...

Very true.
 
mark1975 said:
That point from Carragher, about 4 of the back 5 being Rodgers signings, would be a valid criticism of the club, if Klopp hadn't bought a centre half, a keeper and a left back. two of them have been rubbish and the left back can't get a game. The midfield was typically flat yesterday, yet Klopp's own signings (Grujic and AOC) started on the bench.

You can't moan about Klopp having to use the previous managers players, when he keeps his own sat on the bench. If he doesn't trust his own signings then that's a more worrying scenario.
Click to expand...

Yeah. All managers buy rubbish players and usually there's also a few great signings in there too.

Anyone trying to give Klopp support because he has to use the 'shite' Rodgers signed is a fucking twat. Klopp has signed three defenders, two central midfielders and a goalkeeper.

Just because they're all fucking shit isn't Rodgers' fault.

And Rodgers also signed some mediocre players that Klopp has since rewarded with new huge contacts and/ or built his side around: Can, Firmino, Mignolet, Lovren etc, so again the blame needs to be shared

Since he arrived Klopp has had money to spend like Rodgers did, but obviously nowhere near enough to compete. That said, if you look at all of the signings that Rodgers and Klopp have made over the last 5-6 seasons, there's far more shite than quality.

The only good signings Klopp has made are Mane and Salah. That's a fucking disgrace
 
13 Players Bought: £146,300,000
[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{th}
PLAYER​
{/th}

{th}
FROM{/th}
{th}
FEE{/th}
{th}
DATE{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Marko Grujić{/td}
{td}Red Star Belgrade{/td}
{td}£5,100,000{/td}
{td}6th Jan, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Shamal George{/td}
{td}LFC Youth System{/td}
{td}£0{/td}
{td}6th Jan, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Kamil Grabara{/td}
{td}Ruch Chorzow{/td}
{td}£300,000{/td}
{td}15th Jan, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Sadio Mane{/td}
{td}Southampton{/td}
{td}£30,000,000{/td}
{td}28th Jun, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Loris Karius{/td}
{td}Mainz 05{/td}
{td}£4,700,000{/td}
{td}1st Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Joel Matip{/td}
{td}Schalke 04{/td}
{td}£0{/td}
{td}1st Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Ragnar Klavan{/td}
{td}FC Augsburg{/td}
{td}£4,200,000{/td}
{td}20th Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Alex Manninger{/td}
{td}Free Transfer{/td}
{td}£0{/td}
{td}22nd Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Georginio Wijnaldum{/td}
{td}Newcastle United{/td}
{td}£25,000,000{/td}
{td}22nd Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Mohammed Salah{/td}
{td}AS Roma{/td}
{td}£34,000,000{/td}
{td}22nd Jun, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Dominic Solanke{/td}
{td}Chelsea{/td}
{td}£0{/td}
{td}1st Jul, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Andy Robertson{/td}
{td}Hull City{/td}
{td}£8,000,000{/td}
{td}21st Jul, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain{/td}
{td}Arsenal{/td}
{td}£35,000,000{/td}
{td}31st Aug, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Successes - Salah, Mane
Kinda OK - Matip,
Will come good - Solanke, Robertson
Not good enough- Karius, Klavan, Wijnaldum,
N/A - Manninger, George
Who Knows - Grujic, Grabara,

Players Sold

[xtable=bcenter|border:0|cellpadding:2|cellspacing:0|90%x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{th}
PLAYER​
{/th}

{th}
TO​
{/th}

{th}
FEE​
{/th}

{th}
DATE​
{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Jordan Rossiter{/td}
{td}Rangers{/td}
{td}£250,000{/td}
{td}13th May, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Joao Teixeira{/td}
{td}FC Porto{/td}
{td}£0{/td}
{td}30th Jun, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Jerome Sinclair{/td}
{td}Watford{/td}
{td}£0{/td}
{td}1st Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Sergi Canos{/td}
{td}Norwich City{/td}
{td}£2,500,000{/td}
{td}10th Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Martin Skrtel{/td}
{td}Fenerbahce{/td}
{td}£5,500,000{/td}
{td}13th Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Jordon Ibe{/td}
{td}Bournemouth{/td}
{td}£15,000,000{/td}
{td}13th Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Joe Allen{/td}
{td}Stoke City{/td}
{td}£13,000,000{/td}
{td}25th Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Brad Smith{/td}
{td}AFC Bournemouth{/td}
{td}£3,000,000{/td}
{td}27th Jul, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Christian Benteke{/td}
{td}Crystal Palace{/td}
{td}£27,000,000{/td}
{td}19th Aug, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Luis Alberto{/td}
{td}Lazio{/td}
{td}£4,300,000{/td}
{td}31st Aug, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Mario Balotelli{/td}
{td}Nice{/td}
{td}£0{/td}
{td}31st Aug, 2016{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Tiago Ilori{/td}
{td}Reading{/td}
{td}£2,500,000{/td}
{td}18th Jan, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Andre Wisdom{/td}
{td}Derby County{/td}
{td}£2,000,000{/td}
{td}1st Jul, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Lucas Leiva{/td}
{td}Lazio{/td}
{td}£5,000,000{/td}
{td}18th Jul, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Kevin Stewart{/td}
{td}Hull City{/td}
{td}£7,000,000{/td}
{td}21st Jul, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Mamadou Sakho{/td}
{td}Crystal Palace{/td}
{td}£26,000,000{/td}
{td}31st Aug, 2017{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]​
 
When he arrived we had an absolute comedy show of a defence. He has spent £4.2m on centrebacks since he got here and sold £35m worth. He isn't even pretending he's interested in fixing the defence.
 
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