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Georginio Wijnaldum - confirmed

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So? It's worth pointing out that scoring records don't mean everything in the Dutch league.

He also played in the French league remember, where his record was an extremely impressive 56 goals and 23 assists in 152 games. Just for comparison with an AM that is highly thought of, Nasri had 11 goals in 123 games in the French league. Now I don't know what you think counts as 'prolific' for a midfielder, but I'd say he is up there.
 
So his scoring record both in the Eredivisie and the Premier League should be discarded?

No. His record in Holland is very promising and a good indicator that he can and will score goals, but it should also be taken with a pinch of salt since we've seen the difference in coming from Holland to the Prem for a lot of players.

His record in England is a bit skewed in my opinion when you look at how his 11 goals came. Over a third came in one game with 4 against Norwich. 2 on the last day too. There are question marks.
 
He also played in the French league remember, where his record was an extremely impressive 56 goals and 23 assists in 152 games. Just for comparison with an AM that is highly thought of, Nasri had 11 goals in 123 games in the French league. Now I don't know what you think counts as 'prolific' for a midfielder, but I'd say he is up there.

Who's that sorry? The first player, not Nasri. I'll go have a look at Nasri's stats now, but he was young in the French league.
 
Who's that sorry? The first player, not Nasri. I'll go have a look at Nasri's stats now, but he was young in the French league.

Who are we talking about man? Those are Wijnaldum's incredible stats in Ligue 1 in France. Worth repeating: 56 goals and 23 assists in 152 games. Wijnaldum was also young in the French league. He joined PSV aged 19. Those 'promising stats' in Holland were achieved between the ages of 16-18.
 
Who are we talking about man? Those are Wijnaldum's incredible stats in Ligue 1 in France. Worth repeating: 56 goals and 23 assists in 152 games. Wijnaldum was also young in the French league. He joined PSV aged 19.

This is getting most confusing. Wijnaldum played in France now?

I give up
 
This is getting most confusing. Wijnaldum played in France now?

I give up

Fucking hell. We've really done our due diligence here.

[xtable]
{tbody}
{tr}
{th=rowspan:2}Club{/th}
{th=rowspan:2}Season{/th}
{th=colspan:3}League{/th}
{th=colspan:3}Cup{/th}
{th=colspan:3}Europe{/th}
{th=colspan:3}Total{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th}Apps{/th}
{th}Goals{/th}
{th}Assists{/th}
{th}Apps{/th}
{th}Goals{/th}
{th}Assists{/th}
{th}Apps{/th}
{th}Goals{/th}
{th}Assists{/th}
{th}Apps{/th}
{th}Goals{/th}
{th}Assists{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:6}Feyenoord{/td}
{td}2006–07{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2007–08{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}12{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2008–09{/td}
{td}33{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}44{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2009–10{/td}
{td}31{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}38{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2010–11{/td}
{td}34{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}37{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th}Total{/th}
{th}111{/th}
{th}23{/th}
{th}8{/th}
{th}14{/th}
{th}1{/th}
{th}3{/th}
{th}9{/th}
{th}1{/th}
{th}0{/th}
{th}134{/th}
{th}25{/th}
{th}11{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:5}PSV{/td}
{td}2011–12{/td}
{td}32{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}12{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}50{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}9{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2012–13{/td}
{td}33{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}45{/td}
{td}20{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2013–14{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}15{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2014–15{/td}
{td}33{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}42{/td}
{td}18{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th}Total{/th}
{th}109{/th}
{th}40{/th}
{th}15{/th}
{th}16{/th}
{th}6{/th}
{th}5{/th}
{th}27{/th}
{th}10{/th}
{th}3{/th}
{th}152{/th}
{th}56{/th}
{th}23{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}Newcastle United{/td}
{td}2015–16{/td}
{td}38{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}40{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th}Total{/th}
{th}38{/th}
{th}11{/th}
{th}5{/th}
{th}2{/th}
{th}0{/th}
{th}0{/th}
{th}0{/th}
{th}0{/th}
{th}0{/th}
{th}40{/th}
{th}11{/th}
{th}5{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th=colspan:2}Career total{/th}
{th}258{/th}
{th}74{/th}
{th}28{/th}
{th}32{/th}
{th}7{/th}
{th}8{/th}
{th}36{/th}
{th}11{/th}
{th}3{/th}
{th}326{/th}
{th}92{/th}
{th}39{/th}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
 
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A better comparison, if we're disregarding Dutch strikers, might be Siem de Jong. Here's his record:

2 in 22
1 in 10
10 in 22
12 in 32
13 in 29
12 in 34
7 in 19

He's scored one in 22 for Newcastle. Though I do think he has had injury problems, but that shows the difference in leagues.

Sneijder, though class, scored 18 in his last league campaign at Ajax, he got nowhere near that at Inter or Real.

Depay, too, has looked a shadow of his former self in Holland.

Toivonen scored 61 in 139 in the Dutch league and hasn't replicated that form since.

Lens scored 34 in 96 at PSV. He's scored 13 in 69 since.
 
No. His record in Holland is very promising and a good indicator that he can and will score goals, but it should also be taken with a pinch of salt since we've seen the difference in coming from Holland to the Prem for a lot of players.

His record in England is a bit skewed in my opinion when you look at how his 11 goals came. Over a third came in one game with 4 against Norwich. 2 on the last day too. There are question marks.

Are you one of the site's ultimate pessimists in general (which is fine!), or is this an issue with this player in particular?
 
A better comparison, if we're disregarding Dutch strikers, might be Siem de Jong. Here's his record:

2 in 22
1 in 10
10 in 22
12 in 32
13 in 29
12 in 34
7 in 19

He's scored one in 22 for Newcastle. Though I do think he has had injury problems, but that shows the difference in leagues.

Sneijder, though class, scored 18 in his last league campaign at Ajax, he got nowhere near that at Inter or Real.

Depay, too, has looked a shadow of his former self in Holland.

Toivonen scored 61 in 139 in the Dutch league and hasn't replicated that form since.

Lens scored 34 in 96 at PSV. He's scored 13 in 69 since.

Whereas Bony, Pelle, Huntelaar, Suarez, Dost have all done well after leaving the Eredivisie.
 
Toivonen is wank though. I shuddered when we were linked with him a few years ago. Siem de Jong was a decent enough player in Ajax's system but he's not really a striker and doesn't seem suited to the Premier League. A bit like when we didn't have a clue what to do with Litmanen. Except he's nowhere near as good obviously.

Wijnaldum isn't wank. He's also more of a CM than a striker.
 
Toivonen is wank though. I shuddered when we were linked with him a few years ago. Siem de Jong was a decent enough player in Ajax's system but he's not really a striker and doesn't seem suited to the Premier League. A bit like when we didn't have a clue what to do with Litmanen. Except he's nowhere near as good obviously.

Wijnaldum isn't wank. He's also more of a CM than a striker.

Obviously you've seen more of all those players than I have, but I only have his stats (and Football Manager!) to go on before his time in the Premiership. There's more than enough horror stories from the dutch league to counterbalance the successes, hence my trepidation.

For the record, I think he will be decent. But I also think next year we might be thinking we could have signed a player of the same quality for half the price. Then we will spend £30m on whoever tore it up for Southampton that year.
 
I'll throw Doc Mac a bone and divert the topic back to the point he was making...

I've just had a look at Nasri's stats and I wouldn't call him prolific. 46 goals in 330 league games isn't great. A prolific midfielder for me is someone who gets maybe 1 in 3 or 4 a season. To be fair to Wijnaldum, he has done that in Holland and England. But a) it's Holland and players from there can go either way. And b) his stats during his one season in England could be a little skewed for the reasons I've done to death.

For me, this transfer is quite the risk and by no means a surefire thing. Add to the fact that we paid a lot of money for him, then there's a lot of risk to this deal. That's been my point all along.
 
I'll throw Doc Mac a bone and divert the topic back to the point he was making...

I've just had a look at Nasri's stats and I wouldn't call him prolific. 46 goals in 330 league games isn't great. A prolific midfielder for me is someone who gets maybe 1 in 3 or 4 a season. To be fair to Wijnaldum, he has done that in Holland and England. But a) it's Holland and players from there can go either way. And b) his stats during his one season in England could be a little skewed for the reasons I've done to death.

For me, this transfer is quite the risk and by no means a surefire thing. Add to the fact that we paid a lot of money for him, then there's a lot of risk to this deal. That's been my point all along.

Cheers man. Bro needed a solid.
 
Obviously you've seen more of all those players than I have, but I only have his stats (and Football Manager!) to go on before his time in the Premiership. There's more than enough horror stories from the dutch league to counterbalance the successes, hence my trepidation.

For the record, I think he will be decent. But I also think next year we might be thinking we could have signed a player of the same quality for half the price. Then we will spend £30m on whoever tore it up for Southampton that year.
Hakim Ziyech is supposed to be available for about 8 million as Twente are skint. It's a bargain for someone. He's full of goals and assists.
 
Hakim Ziyech is supposed to be available for about 8 million as Twente are skint. It's a bargain for someone. He's full of goals and assists.

Well there you go. Why not take the punt on him before Southampton sign him for that and we buy him for 35m next year? Cut out the middleman.
 
I think so. The flourish of the c&p'ed chart just tips it over into "Full Dreamy"

Look the stats are excellent, regardless of my PSV/ PSG confusion. Although they don't really stand up to scrutiny in respect of the French league any more.
 
Obviously you've seen more of all those players than I have, but I only have his stats (and Football Manager!) to go on before his time in the Premiership. There's more than enough horror stories from the dutch league to counterbalance the successes, hence my trepidation.

For the record, I think he will be decent. But I also think next year we might be thinking we could have signed a player of the same quality for half the price. Then we will spend £30m on whoever tore it up for Southampton that year.

Yeah, but the thing is, EVERY SINGLE YEAR, there are a few players who look like the most amazing signings ever, and all the papers and media platforms do a poll of "Bargain Of The Year" or "Best Transfer" and everyone moans and says "why didn't we sign him when he was available for £2.50?! Now he's worth £35m and will go to Chelsea/ City/ Real/ Barca/ United!"

And that club makes a load of money in transfers when they sell them, and the Chief Scout is a genius, and he moves to a bigger club and on it goes.

But it's all cyclical. One year it was Southampton. Then Leicester. Or Newcastle and their French scouting network.

Because it's a massive fluke. Yes, of course there are some fabulous scouts. There are some clubs who seem - for a while - to be able to pick up these bargains. But they sign just as many shit players that nobody wants after a year or two. Eventually. It all evens out. There's always risk involved.

Smaller, less attractive clubs are exactly set up to take those risks. Players (like Wijnaldum, like Kante, like Vardy, like Sissoko, like Payet, ike Mane) know that this could be a great stepping stone move. That if they impress, one of the "big clubs" will come in and pay them double what they earn now. Both the club and the player have to work harder, take different routes, look at less fashionable destinations in the short-term.

And it will always be that way. There'll be threads in a month or two speculating on who we should have bought for £5m, like there was with Kante last season. Don't recall any posts about him when he played for Caen.

But then, you don't often hear about the failures quite so much. Does anyone still wish they'd taken a chance on Michu before Swansea got him? Or Benni McCarthy? Savio Nsereko, the £9m genius signing for West Ham? Xisco? Matt Jones? Steve Marlet? Thomas Brolin? Jo? Kleberson? Mitroglou? Alves?

There's far more shite signed - BY EVERY CLUB - than quality
 
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