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Poll #GetJohnAchterbergOut

Prefix for Poll Threads

#GetJohnAchterbergOut

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 75.8%
  • No

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • Makes no difference

    Votes: 6 18.2%

  • Total voters
    33
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doctor_mac

My cowboy name is Garland Justice
Moderator
Meet Nana Boake Duah, who has invented the hashtag title of this thread. Has Nana got a point? Or has Achterburg been dealt a bad set of keepers. Should we worry that he's not actually helping the keeping situation? If you're not the solution, you're part of the problem?

 
Its not that they havent improved theyve all gotten considerably worse during their time with us. Its made worse when the likes of Reina move elsewhere and look great again. Maybe its all a massive coincidence but I dont believe that.
 
Its not that they havent improved theyve all gotten considerably worse during their time with us. Its made worse when the likes of Reina move elsewhere and look great again. Maybe its all a massive coincidence but I dont believe that.

Reina was very good for us, Reina has been the best goalkeeper we have had in probably near 25 years.
 
Reina was very good for us, Reina has been the best goalkeeper we have had in probably near 25 years.

Im not disagreeing with that, he was great for a few years and then started going backwards, looking lazy and making sloppy mistakes. As soon as he left he looked great again.
 
Whether Achterberg is at fault or if we've just had shit keepers, there's no doubt that he's failed to make notable improvements with the players we've had. Would be happy to see him go
 
Achterberg comes to the club and we sign a succession of mediocre keepers who don't improve enough. As necessary connections go, it wouldn't get David Hume's vote, that's for sure. You never used to hear Chelski fans say, 'Wow, we must have a great goalkeeping coach, because our keeper's top class!' Same goes for the mancs. It's only when a keeper messes up that the coach gets discussed. Achterberg is much admired at the club - he works the longest day, he's always looking to bring in other goalkeeping specialists for special sessions, he studies video analysis obsessively, and he changes the training work as and when he thinks new challenges are needed. I don't know if that means he's a good goalkeeping COACH, but although it's always tempting to onlookers to say, 'The keeper's crap, it must be Achterberg's fault,' that's actually quite a leap in logic. I think if you stand back and look at things impartially, you can actually see improvements in all the keepers' performances under him. Karius certainly came back looking stronger, his distribution looked better, his kicking was a little more accurate, his communication with defenders was a bit more decisive - none of that got Achterberg any plaudits, but the brain freezes got him flak. Put it this way, if we sign a much better keeper I don't think Achterberg will make him worse. Beyond that I just don't know enough about it.
 
Achterberg comes to the club and we sign a succession of mediocre keepers who don't improve enough. As necessary connections go, it wouldn't get David Hume's vote, that's for sure. You never used to hear Chelski fans say, 'Wow, we must have a great goalkeeping coach, because our keeper's top class!' Same goes for the mancs. It's only when a keeper messes up that the coach gets discussed. Achterberg is much admired at the club - he works the longest day, he's always looking to bring in other goalkeeping specialists for special sessions, he studies video analysis obsessively, and he changes the training work as and when he thinks new challenges are needed. I don't know if that means he's a good goalkeeping COACH, but although it's always tempting to onlookers to say, 'The keeper's crap, it must be Achterberg's fault,' that's actually quite a leap in logic. I think if you stand back and look at things impartially, you can actually see improvements in all the keepers' performances under him. Karius certainly came back looking stronger, his distribution looked better, his kicking was a little more accurate, his communication with defenders was a bit more decisive - none of that got Achterberg any plaudits, but the brain freezes got him flak. Put it this way, if we sign a much better keeper I don't think Achterberg will make him worse. Beyond that I just don't know enough about it.
Great post.
 
Achterberg comes to the club and we sign a succession of mediocre keepers who don't improve enough. As necessary connections go, it wouldn't get David Hume's vote, that's for sure. You never used to hear Chelski fans say, 'Wow, we must have a great goalkeeping coach, because our keeper's top class!' Same goes for the mancs. It's only when a keeper messes up that the coach gets discussed. Achterberg is much admired at the club - he works the longest day, he's always looking to bring in other goalkeeping specialists for special sessions, he studies video analysis obsessively, and he changes the training work as and when he thinks new challenges are needed. I don't know if that means he's a good goalkeeping COACH, but although it's always tempting to onlookers to say, 'The keeper's crap, it must be Achterberg's fault,' that's actually quite a leap in logic. I think if you stand back and look at things impartially, you can actually see improvements in all the keepers' performances under him. Karius certainly came back looking stronger, his distribution looked better, his kicking was a little more accurate, his communication with defenders was a bit more decisive - none of that got Achterberg any plaudits, but the brain freezes got him flak. Put it this way, if we sign a much better keeper I don't think Achterberg will make him worse. Beyond that I just don't know enough about it.

Top post Macca, and he definitely did look like he had strengthened certain aspects of his game, no doubt with Achterberg's help when Klopp gave him the nod over Ming. It could be argued that it was the arrival of VVD that helped him even further, as he had somebody who could instruct him on the pitch. However, I can remember people pointing out oddities in both Ming and Karius's positioning when conceding goals they shouldn't oughta have done which makes me wonder is there a coaching issue. I'd be interested if people might highlight examples. I also can't shake off that example where Ming seemed to have an upturn in form after taking advice from his wife. It was like, shouldn't the coaches have been able to press that button? I've no doubt that the guy is busting his balls, and I also don't doubt both Ming and Karius are fundamentally flawed as keepers, in that they both seem to lack the steely, don't give a fuck, mental strength you see in the very best in that position. I do think it is fair that he has questions to answer, when keeping is such a problem area for us.
 
I think people are carrying Reinas downturn in form as a reason why acterberg is shite. The fact we've bought dodgy keepers since perpetuates this

The only aberration is karius. Widely regarded as a very good keep in the bundesliga; so why did he become a bag of nerves for us?

I honestly believe it's the mignolet/defence vicious cycle

Our defence was shaky so mignolet became nervous, which made our defence more nervous, which made mignolet worse. Then karius comes in (not a vocal powerhouse) behind a terrified defence, the nerves pass on to karius

Bringing in Virgil caused an upturn in form for both lovren and karius. Sadly, karius made glaring errors as a result of an injury, so the mental weight will be with him while he's here.

It's right to replace him, but it's a shame for him.
 
Reina had every right to not give a fuck. G&H were selling all his mates and we were signing Konchesky and Jovanovic. We sold Mascherano, Arbeloa, Alonso and Torres in 3 years. That fucking wrecks my head. How many trophies did that 5 (including Reina) win since we fucked them over.
We were all but done as a club at that point. But for Gerrard staying fuck knows what would have happened.

I never wanted us to sell Reina. On the contrary I wanted us to sign good players to compliment the handful of world class players we had left at that time. By handful I mean Gerrard, Carra and Reina.
 
Reina had every right to not give a fuck. G&H were selling all his mates and we were signing Konchesky and Jovanovic. We sold Mascherano, Arbeloa, Alonso and Torres in 3 years. That fucking wrecks my head. How many trophies did that 5 (including Reina) win since we fucked them over.
We were all but done as a club at that point. But for Gerrard staying fuck knows what would have happened.

I never wanted us to sell Reina. On the contrary I wanted us to sign good players to compliment the handful of world class players we had left at that time. By handful I mean Gerrard, Carra and Reina.

Sorry, but that's just bullshit.

Reina played for - and was paid by - Liverpool. And as long as that was the case he should have given a fuck. The club was a mess at the time, agreed, but Reina is a professional and should have acted like one. If he downed tools or threw a strop because we sold his mates (no idea if that's the case), we were right to get rid. Rotten apples and all that.
 
I think people are carrying Reinas downturn in form as a reason why acterberg is shite. The fact we've bought dodgy keepers since perpetuates this

The only aberration is karius. Widely regarded as a very good keep in the bundesliga; so why did he become a bag of nerves for us?

I honestly believe it's the mignolet/defence vicious cycle

Our defence was shaky so mignolet became nervous, which made our defence more nervous, which made mignolet worse. Then karius comes in (not a vocal powerhouse) behind a terrified defence, the nerves pass on to karius

Bringing in Virgil caused an upturn in form for both lovren and karius. Sadly, karius made glaring errors as a result of an injury, so the mental weight will be with him while he's here.

It's right to replace him, but it's a shame for him.

There's something in that for sure.
 
I think the 'Achterberg is shite' talk started soon after Reina complained that Achterberg came in and tried to change his game. We didn't know what to believe as we weren't privy to what was going on behind the scenes. Reina appeared to experience a decline and also started making errors around that time, dropping the ball, getting beaten at his near post etc. Reina went on to have some good years in Italy so perhaps it was a blip born out of frustration (seeing his mates sold as Oncy said) and change around him (new coach).

Good post by Macca above. At least gives us an insight into Achterberg work habits.
 
I think as fans we also overlook not just how difficult it is to make changes to someone's instincts during a season, but the risk of doing so. It would be suicide to find things to change (even when we can see them glaringly obviously e.g. piss poor at coming off his line for crosses) and try to get the GK to change his gut instinct over the course of 2 maybe 3 training sessions. Things like that need a prolonged spell of analysis, appraisal and re-coaching. I feel that LK got that in his time off the pitch, but there is only so far you can get.

In this case, I don't feel there is a problem per se with technique, i feel decisions are average but improving (helped by decisive monsters in front of him now) but concentration has been found lacking at times.
 
Did Reina also complain that he was being instructed by Achterberg to kick it long every time? Or have I muddled up the time line in my head. I'm not sure that adds up as Rodgers liked to build up from the back. Unless Reina was claiming Achterberg was giving different instructions to the first team coach.
 
Sorry, but that's just bullshit.

Reina played for - and was paid by - Liverpool. And as long as that was the case he should have given a fuck. The club was a mess at the time, agreed, but Reina is a professional and should have acted like one. If he downed tools or threw a strop because we sold his mates (no idea if that's the case), we were right to get rid. Rotten apples and all that.
Where did I say he downed tools and threw a strop? Where did I say he didnt act like a professional? Where have you heard this?
I said he had the right not to give a fuck.
I think you have made a bit of a leap there.
But by all means call it bullshit. I have zero interest in your opinion. On anything. Ever.
 
Reina's game seemingly improves when he goes to Italy and "Achterburg is shit"

Lucas' game seemingly improves when he goes to Italy and "the Italian league is shit".

Who will be the scape goat for Can?
 
I have to agree with Oncy on this one, our club was right in the shit around then, I don't really blame Torres for leaving, or Reina for letting his gut drop, it was a hella depressing time to be a fan, imagine playing at the club at that time?
 
I have to agree with Oncy on this one, our club was right in the shit around then, I don't really blame Torres for leaving, or Reina for letting his gut drop, it was a hella depressing time to be a fan, imagine playing at the club at that time?

Yep, the club was a mess and I don't blame any of Torres, Masher etc for leaving. And, conversely, I don't blame the club for getting shot of players who had downed tools because their mates had gone. We needed more of the Gerrard/Carra ilk, and less of the Reina ilk (if what Oncy is saying is true).
 
I think people are carrying Reinas downturn in form as a reason why acterberg is shite. The fact we've bought dodgy keepers since perpetuates this

The only aberration is karius. Widely regarded as a very good keep in the bundesliga; so why did he become a bag of nerves for us?

I honestly believe it's the mignolet/defence vicious cycle

Our defence was shaky so mignolet became nervous, which made our defence more nervous, which made mignolet worse. Then karius comes in (not a vocal powerhouse) behind a terrified defence, the nerves pass on to karius

Bringing in Virgil caused an upturn in form for both lovren and karius. Sadly, karius made glaring errors as a result of an injury, so the mental weight will be with him while he's here.

It's right to replace him, but it's a shame for him.
I dunnno.
Mignolet was a bag of nerves right from the first game against Stoke.
Even though he saved the peno he had a few dodgy moments that didn't cost us
 
Maybe it is a mentality thing then?
Like you come from a Mainz or a Sunderland and you shit your little pantalons at a Liverpool or wherever.
Reina had player for Barcelona. De Gea came from Atletico. Tybalt had a league winners medal at Genk.

Maybe thats the issue, that a gaolkeeper should swim in a pool that fits his mentality.
Therefore I conclude that this fat bald little oddball will be a trenendous success.
 
Meet Nana Boake Duah, who has invented the hashtag title of this thread. Has Nana got a point? Or has Achterburg been dealt a bad set of keepers. Should we worry that he's not actually helping the keeping situation? If you're not the solution, you're part of the problem?



I like the cut of this Nana Boake Duah's jib.

I suspect he's quite the expert.
 
Reina had every right to not give a fuck. G&H were selling all his mates and we were signing Konchesky and Jovanovic. We sold Mascherano, Arbeloa, Alonso and Torres in 3 years. That fucking wrecks my head. How many trophies did that 5 (including Reina) win since we fucked them over.
We were all but done as a club at that point. But for Gerrard staying fuck knows what would have happened.

I never wanted us to sell Reina. On the contrary I wanted us to sign good players to compliment the handful of world class players we had left at that time. By handful I mean Gerrard, Carra and Reina.

I'm afraid I have to disagree my old fruit. Having cuntish owners and not being very good are no excuses for being fat and shit. I don't remember the exact quote but Shankly spoke of not being able to support us when we win if you can't support us when we lose. That, with knobs on, also applies to those who get to wear the shirt. Reina was a fine goalkeeper, arguably our best since Clemence, but he was on a decline that showed no sign of being averted when we sold him.
 
I'm afraid I have to disagree my old fruit. Having cuntish owners and not being very good are no excuses for being fat and shit. I don't remember the exact quote but Shankly spoke of not being able to support us when we win if you can't support us when we lose. That, with knobs on, also applies to those who get to wear the shirt. Reina was a fine goalkeeper, arguably our best since Clemence, but he was on a decline that showed no sign of being averted when we sold him.
Fair enough. I never saw it that way at the time and still dont.
 
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