Is it physical ?

[Rosco]

A players physical well being, or lack thereof, is obviously a significant ingredient in their ability to produce good performances and to do so consistently.

We also have a relatively thin squad, which Klopp hasn't rotated a lot from game to game. It looks to me like a squad that can only cope well with one game a week because of the lack of depth.

We still coped well in December, but this is our 9th game in less than a month - dating back to the 27th December against Stoke.

So are we seeing that Klopp's approach needs to adjust somewhat to take into account the squad depth and fixture list ?

Because it doesn't appear that we're coping all that well of late.

 

[Insignificance]

Good observation. We have had an ekstreme program. I believe we are fit enough.... but the fresh legs that was an x factor looks gone at the moment...

 

[Squiggles]

Yep. Klopp demands a high work rate but is trying to achieve this with a thin squad in the most demanding league in the world, both in terms of frequency and intensity.

To compete in Europe next year we are going to need so pad this squad out significantly.

There's more to it than tiredness though. We haven't got the ability to break down sides who park the bus. There's no plan b nor is there a clinical finisher who can be relied upon to score that one chance, but that's another thread entirely.

 

[moron]

I also actually also put it down to the current climate - i think its harder to play the fluid style in this cold. However if you look at the team today the key players are those from last year and right now they are playing like they did last year. The improvements we saw early on in the season are just not there. Key difference being missing Mane who has seriously added a new dimension to our play.

 

[Gary25]

We look genuinely goosed. Good night. X

 

[SummerOnions]

We misplaced many more passes than I've seen in a long time but Southampton shut us out like this way earlier in the season. We need new football skills, and fast

 

[beejay]

Dunno if it is physical as well but we have some chokers in this team. No excuse for some of the awful passing, poor control at vital moments and lapses of concentration.

The squad is too thin, that's for sure and we have way too many seriously out of form.

 

[mark1975]

Probably, either way its myopic bullshit.

 

[beejay]

What is really pissing me off is I thought we had finally cracked it, that we were on the verge of greatness with a side full of flair and dominating the opposition consistently. Now it looks like we need half the team replacing again ffs

That Romeu was terrific I thought, broke our play up time and again and beat our press with a first time wall pass regularly.

 

[reuque]

What is really pissing me off is I thought we had finally cracked it, that we were on the verge of greatness with a side full of flair and dominating the opposition consistently. Now it looks like we need half the team replacing again ffs

That Romeu was terrific I thought, broke our play up time and again and beat our press with a first time wall pass regularly.

This. Apart from getting new players this summer, I expected our physical sharpness to be increased with the inclusions of that nutrition lady and fitness guy (the Klopp twin) we managed to snag from Munich. Shirley we can be better than where we currently are!

 

[Farkmaster]

I do think we had an advantage in terms of rest and preparation against other teams. That reversed over the Christmas period, and was exacerbated by the fact that we didn't put some matches to bed, had replays etc.

That said, with some very mediocre performances by players who don't really offer enough to warrant playing through poor form, I do not understand why Klopp is not using some youth in attack.

 

[rurikbird]

I do think we had an advantage in terms of rest and preparation against other teams. That reversed over the Christmas period, and was exacerbated by the fact that we didn't put some matches to bed, had replays etc.

That said, with some very mediocre performances by players who don't really offer enough to warrant playing through poor form, I do not understand why Klopp is not using some youth in attack.

I'm a bit disappointed that Ojo was not in the squad and Woodburn was never introduced – but on the other hand, he had to give Sturridge a chance. A real chance to prove he still be our star player – play him for 90 minutes, up front, game-fit and fresh, flanked by the club's best attackers, against a stubborn defence that only a moment of class from the player Klopp previously described as our "genius" finisher could unlock. I feel this two-legged tie was Sturridge's big moment and in a way Klopp owed it to him to give him the proper chance. It would have been so different if one of those couple of chances has been converted, but it was not to be and at the moment it looks to me like Sturridge is finished in Liverpool.

 

[King Binny]

Yes, the strength in depth is an issue. Our starting XI basically picks itself but there's always injuries, suspensions and loss of form to contend with. The likes of Grujic, Brannagan, Ojo, Wilson being injured also meant their progress got halted (before which they were expected to add options/provide adequate backup to the first team). How under-utilized the likes of Moreno, Lucas and Stewart (should we include Sakho too?) has been and the lack of attacking options from the bench (from discussing how Ings, Origi, Firmino and Sturridge can fit into the plans to having Woodburn as a bench option) probably highlight the issue too.

The squad was understandably trimmed down since we are not involved in Europe. However with the absences due to various reasons and given our progression in both the league and cup competitions (striking when the iron is hot?) plus fixture congestion beginning from end of last year, I thought/expected some form of forward planning/reinforcement.

Tiredness, lack of concentration and defensive solidity, failing to close out game, attempting to draw level or win the game having lost the lead - while the other teams have rectify or improved on having a strong finish to the game, our achilles heel remains a (major) concern.
16/17

15/16

 

[Dreambeliever]

Every fan of other clubs questioned our ability to keep our work rate up for the whole season and looks like they were right.

We need more quality depth

 

[Modo]

Good observation. We have had an ekstreme program. I believe we are fit enough.... but the fresh legs that was an x factor looks gone at the moment...

Your "ekstreme program" is missing an x-factor.

 

[Modo]

What is really pissing me off is I thought we had finally cracked it, that we were on the verge of greatness with a side full of flair and dominating the opposition consistently. Now it looks like we need half the team replacing again ffs

That Romeu was terrific I thought, broke our play up time and again and beat our press with a first time wall pass regularly.

I thought he was excellent. Did precisely what a DM should do.

 

[redhorizon2]

We missed Coutinho and now we're missing Sadio Mane.

 

[mom]

Yeh I do think part of it is physical. Sadly, without a big enough squad of decent players, it's not easy to rotate

 

[Best Believe It]

I don't know whether it's physical but there's a lack of dominant players in the squad. A number of people made this point in the summer. Whether it's through relentless tackling/winning the ball like Momo Sissoko at his best, or being able to keep the ball moving constantly like Alonso used to be able to do, we lack a dominant midfielder. I suppose Matip could grow into a dominant centre back, but we lack anyone imperious who could play the way Van Diik (I know that's probably the wrong spelling) did against us in the first leg.

We lack a keeper we have confidence in who can command his penalty area. We lack a forward who can dig us out of a hole.

Basically when we're low on confidence we lack players who can compensate. It ends up affecting the whole team.

I think it's more mental than anything else. We lost Coutinho and Mane, and then the rest of the players realised we wouldn't be signing anyone else, and a malaise has set in.

 

[rurikbird]

Very hard to diagnose those things from the outside – and I suspect even for the coaching team with all the data from training and games and the science behind the fitness regime, it's not easy to understand why and when certain players go into slumps.

Judging from the outside, we can see that Firmino has been excellent and full of ideas in the past couple of games, even though he looked jaded through most of December. That's surprising, since he didn't have much of a break. Coutinho and Matip are off the pace, that's understandable. Origi is again in one of his periods of low confidence (seems to be a regular thing in his young career so far – a period of excellent form, followed by a prolonged slump), Can has been in a slump too, but seems to have turned it around somewhat since the United game (I believe that's why Klopp selected him ahead of Wijnaldum, who is in a bit of slump of his own at the moment), Milner recently looks jaded, Clyne is struggling with an injury, enough has been said about Sturridge. I think Hendo and Lallana are more or less all right, both GK's are in decent form, Lovren typically somewhat erratic, but overall not too bad. Among the youngsters, only TAA has emerged as a serious option so far, Moreno hasn't progressed, Lucas is Lucas and I actually thought Klavan did quite OK stepping in for a few games as a 3-4th choice CB.

So to sum up the above, out of 16 first-choice senior players, 3 or 4 are out of shape due to physical/injury issues, Mane is missing and a couple more suffer from loss of form/confidence issues. This all seems quite normal for a football team and shouldn't be causing a crisis – and yet, somehow it does. The team that was flying in the first half of the season has hit some kind of wall. It's up to Klopp to get to the bottom of this and come up with the answers. I'm not sure squad depth in the answer – did Leicester have any more squad depth last season?

 

[Glen C]

I don't think it's physical but we lack a spine to our team and we have no leaders on the pitch. When things get tough that's when the likes of hendo should be rallying the team and pushing us forward. He can't do that.

I also blame klopp. Everyone and his dog knows we attack better as a unit with firmino in the middle but he keeps using him wide. He also failed to address our DM/playmaker issue in the summer.

 

[Insignificance]

One challenge is that it is not just to introduce someone to the Klopp system. And Klopp has had a vision that he doesn't want to have players around that can't have a competitive program, as that halt their Development. So in a season where we for most part has only weekend games we can't have a huge Squad were players doesn't participate unless they are rotated into games. We pay for that at the moment, but over the Whole season I think we will be fine. We will shortly be back to weekend games only, and have full weeks of training in between them.

 

[Insignificance]

Very hard to diagnose those things from the outside – and I suspect even for the coaching team with all the data from training and games and the science behind the fitness regime, it's not easy to understand why and when certain players go into slumps.

Judging from the outside, we can see that Firmino has been excellent and full of ideas in the past couple of games, even though he looked jaded through most of December. That's surprising, since he didn't have much of a break. Coutinho and Matip are off the pace, that's understandable. Origi is again in one of his periods of low confidence (seems to be a regular thing in his young career so far – a period of excellent form, followed by a prolonged slump), Can has been in a slump too, but seems to have turned it around somewhat since the United game (I believe that's why Klopp selected him ahead of Wijnaldum, who is in a bit of slump of his own at the moment), Milner recently looks jaded, Clyne is struggling with an injury, enough has been said about Sturridge. I think Hendo and Lallana are more or less all right, both GK's are in decent form, Lovren typically somewhat erratic, but overall not too bad. Among the youngsters, only TAA has emerged as a serious option so far, Moreno hasn't progressed, Lucas is Lucas and I actually thought Klavan did quite OK stepping in for a few games as a 3-4th choice CB.

So to sum up the above, out of 16 first-choice senior players, 3 or 4 are out of shape due to physical/injury issues, Mane is missing and a couple more suffer from loss of form/confidence issues. This all seems quite normal for a football team and shouldn't be causing a crisis – and yet, somehow it does. It's up to Klopp to get to the bottom of this and come up with the answers. I'm not sure squad depth in the answer – did Leicester have any more squad depth last season?

Don't forget that Ings and Grujic were part of the squad originally, and would have given us other options if not for the injuries.

 

[Hansern]

Very hard to diagnose those things from the outside – and I suspect even for the coaching team with all the data from training and games and the science behind the fitness regime, it's not easy to understand why and when certain players go into slumps.

Judging from the outside, we can see that Firmino has been excellent and full of ideas in the past couple of games, even though he looked jaded through most of December. That's surprising, since he didn't have much of a break. Coutinho and Matip are off the pace, that's understandable. Origi is again in one of his periods of low confidence (seems to be a regular thing in his young career so far – a period of excellent form, followed by a prolonged slump), Can has been in a slump too, but seems to have turned it around somewhat since the United game (I believe that's why Klopp selected him ahead of Wijnaldum, who is in a bit of slump of his own at the moment), Milner recently looks jaded, Clyne is struggling with an injury, enough has been said about Sturridge. I think Hendo and Lallana are more or less all right, both GK's are in decent form, Lovren typically somewhat erratic, but overall not too bad. Among the youngsters, only TAA has emerged as a serious option so far, Moreno hasn't progressed, Lucas is Lucas and I actually thought Klavan did quite OK stepping in for a few games as a 3-4th choice CB.

So to sum up the above, out of 16 first-choice senior players, 3 or 4 are out of shape due to physical/injury issues, Mane is missing and a couple more suffer from loss of form/confidence issues. This all seems quite normal for a football team and shouldn't be causing a crisis – and yet, somehow it does. The team that was flying in the first half of the season has hit some kind of wall. It's up to Klopp to get to the bottom of this and come up with the answers. I'm not sure squad depth in the answer – did Leicester have any more squad depth last season?

I think this is more of the reason then the physical part. We still outrun our opponents in terms of work rate, but its not as effective when other parts of the set up is changed.

The quality and depth of this squad isnt good enough, and that comes to show when several of the key parts are either missing or out of form (injured).
The little rest over Christmas and extra games in January havent helped our thin squad.

It will take a few summer transfer windows to add that quality and depth.
Easy to forget that we are still "rebuilding" this squad.

 

[Hansern]

And whats with the space between the word and question mark?

It looks odd doesnt it ?
And incorrect obvs.

 

[BoysPen]

Klopp was very successful in Germany with exactly the same high tempo style that he is playing here - there are two main differences between here and Germany - we have no easy games in our league - so the intensity has to be maintained over longer periods and with less rotation, and secondly we have no winter break.

Add to this the squad thinness mentioned earlier and our current loss of spark is probably to be expected - maybe the Dutch fitness man was not so daft after all!

 

[Modo]

Klopp also had better players. Lewandowski, Götze, Reus, Gundogan, Şahin, Hummels etc.

 

[Rosco]

Very hard to diagnose those things from the outside – and I suspect even for the coaching team with all the data from training and games and the science behind the fitness regime, it's not easy to understand why and when certain players go into slumps.

Judging from the outside, we can see that Firmino has been excellent and full of ideas in the past couple of games, even though he looked jaded through most of December. That's surprising, since he didn't have much of a break. Coutinho and Matip are off the pace, that's understandable. Origi is again in one of his periods of low confidence (seems to be a regular thing in his young career so far – a period of excellent form, followed by a prolonged slump), Can has been in a slump too, but seems to have turned it around somewhat since the United game (I believe that's why Klopp selected him ahead of Wijnaldum, who is in a bit of slump of his own at the moment), Milner recently looks jaded, Clyne is struggling with an injury, enough has been said about Sturridge. I think Hendo and Lallana are more or less all right, both GK's are in decent form, Lovren typically somewhat erratic, but overall not too bad. Among the youngsters, only TAA has emerged as a serious option so far, Moreno hasn't progressed, Lucas is Lucas and I actually thought Klavan did quite OK stepping in for a few games as a 3-4th choice CB.

So to sum up the above, out of 16 first-choice senior players, 3 or 4 are out of shape due to physical/injury issues, Mane is missing and a couple more suffer from loss of form/confidence issues. This all seems quite normal for a football team and shouldn't be causing a crisis – and yet, somehow it does. The team that was flying in the first half of the season has hit some kind of wall. It's up to Klopp to get to the bottom of this and come up with the answers. I'm not sure squad depth in the answer – did Leicester have any more squad depth last season?

No they didn't, probably less so.

But isn't the distinction between us and them the amount of ground covered in each match ?

They were probably in the middle of the pack in terms of ground covered. We're top.

So is that extra running compounding the situation we're in ?

 

[Markeh]

I said this a week or so ago, it's a combination of the running earlier in the season catching up with us and teams realising how to give themselves a decent chance of a result. If it were one or the other we'd probably still be picking up results.

 

[Red Astaire]

I don't think it's physical but we lack a spine to our team and we have no leaders on the pitch. When things get tough that's when the likes of hendo should be rallying the team and pushing us forward. He can't do that.

I also blame klopp. Everyone and his dog knows we attack better as a unit with firmino in the middle but he keeps using him wide. He also failed to address our DM/playmaker issue in the summer.

I agree with this in part. The lack of leadership is a worry. Especially when you want someone to put the fucking boot in! Hendo is not that player in my opinion. You can argue that while he has been captain we've won fuck all. Sometimes I find myself screeching at the TV at the complete lack of fight in the middle of pitch. Constantly losing aerial balls being a constant pain the arse. Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino are hardly Souness or Keane. For all their silky skills there surely has to be a nice balance between the two. I like Hendo but I think it's pretty clear we need a new approach.