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Sakho, Klavan, Gomez

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LeTallecWiz

Doos
Honorary Member
I cannot fault Lucas for yesterday - he's not playing there because he wants to. He does his best and the person responsible for putting him in that place is the manager. Let's try not to make this an 'attack Lucas' thread

This CB issue Klopp has managed over the last few months really concerns me.

I know he had to make a point with Sakho - but was it worth shipping him out when he's as good a CB on his day as Lovren? Was it worth our backline having a player who's not a CB and has so little experience in this position?

I know Klavan isn't that good, but he's a CB ... And yes, he's had some stinkers this season but he's a CB. Why is he backing up a DM turned CB?

I know Gomez isn't fully back sharpness wise - but what he lacks in game time he makes up in speed and strength. Would he have been a better option?

I just don't get it.
 
It's not a secret that I like Lucas, but putting him against Vardy and playing a high line, must be just about the most inept decision Klopp has made since joining.
 
It's not a secret that I like Lucas, but putting him against Vardy and playing a high line, must be just about the most inept decision Klopp has made since joining.
 
With the obligatory attack upon Lucas taken care of, it might be that Kaurius was meant to be the sweeper in his beautiful relentless system of play. Except he was shit so that was that. Mignolet had to come in, he can't even be trusted to sweep a fucking floor. So that may be why Klopp now keeps picking Lucas, because in theory he can pass the ball better than our other defenders.
 
It's not a secret that I like Lucas, but putting him against Vardy and playing a high line, must be just about the most inept decision Klopp has made since joining.

He's making a lot of poor decisions that have cost us lately.
 
Its an area Klopp has not delivered, for sure.

Sakho was a bizarre situation that feels unresolved, i doubt we know close to the full stort, so hes excused from that for now.

Klavan vs lucas is just bizarre
 
Trying to sit on the fence to the madness:
Sakho - He fell out with and couldn't 'trust' any more, the usual bullshit employers pull on staff they've got personal vendettas with
Klavan - Wouldn't be suited to last nights game as he's only the only person the squad lucas could win a sprint against
Gomez - I'd have played him there last night over lucas, but maybe Klopp thinks he's too young and inexperienced yet

The last 2 managers we've had have been shockingly inept at organising a defence, but it's also a byproduct of the style of football they play. Needless to say teams that win things every year have solid defences. Actually I'm struggling to think of a team that won a major competition with a shocking defence and keeper.
 
It was just a very cocky summer from Klopp.
We had a problem with our back for 4 years, he should have got new players and not prospects like Karius.
 
Either cocky or he's happy to think two seasons ahead etc
Personally, I think that's way too long term and he should have bought a little success
 
Yeh he will. Definitely. The owners made money last summer and saw serious levels of performance for the first third of the season. They'll let themselves believe we can reach those levels again and with a few middling buys can push for he league with Klopp as it was he who got us playing the way we did earlier in the season. It only becomes a worry if Klopp starts to believe that we can just start playing like that again with the squad as it is. We've been found out and everyone will just park the bus.
I don't think for a second he thinks the players we have now are enough though. He's often alluded to the fact that we need a player or two more
 
Klopps biggest mistake is getting rid of Sakho. He would walk into our team right now. He produced a great performance last weekend and instead of playing a leader, a former captain, a france international, we're playing a CDM as a CB. Klopp needs to address the defence come the summer, were on track of letting in 50+ goals again which is nowhere near good enough and nowhere near an improvement on Rodgers.
I love Klopp but he needs to pull the finger out and make some tough calls and also get our defence right. We need a GK, CB and a LB.
 
Except, we have no idea whether he made the right call in ditching Sakho or not do we as we have. I idea what he did to justify being ditched. I very very much doubt it's a decision he would have taken lightly and I can't see the board etc sanctioning such actions with an asset worth what he is bith financially and to the team.
My frustration is with him not replacing him with someone better. A top quality CB is a must in the summer. As is a keeper. And a top CM/DM. oh and a striker please.
We need to spend at least what manu spent on one player on filling those four slots.
 
I think Matip and Gomez could form a pleasingly mobile, smart and solid pairing in time. Those are at least worth some patience. Lovren can't keep fit and remains prone to errors when he does make it on to the pitch. But we must get some stability - our centre defence seems to change every week.
 
I like Matip, but he doesn't seem particularly hewn from steel so I'd rather a top class CB with either of those two around him.
 
PAUL JOYCE
Klopp must fix defence that cost side shot at title
Paul Joyce, Northern Football Correspondent
March 1 2017, 12:01am, The Times

Between August 2009 and May 2012, a period in which Jürgen Klopp built Borussia Dortmund up and up until they retained successive Bundesliga titles, Mats Hummels missed just seven league games at the heart of his manager’s defence.

Over that same period Neven Subotic was absent for 12 games; the point being that, when it came to selecting his line-up each week, Klopp did not need to worry about his centre-back partnership. It largely picked itself.

Shortly before the end of Monday’s demoralising defeat by Leicester City, the sort of numbing reverse that sparks a debate on just where the club are heading, Liverpool had been exposed as a shambles. A switch to a back three saw their defence consisting of two midfielders in Lucas Leiva and Emre Can, while another midfielder, James Milner, filled in at wing back (in a season in which he has regularly been played out of position at left back).

Since coming to Liverpool, Klopp has given the impression that there is little he yearns for from that successful tenure at the Westfalenstadion.

Yet, surely, if there is one thing that he misses, it is the sense of comfort and reassurance that the firm foundations of the Subotic-Hummels partnership brought him as he saw off Bayern Munich’s challenge in 2010-11 and then again in 2011-12.

Klopp has had more centre-back pairings (20) than he has had months at Anfield (17) and, when the constant state of flux is analysed, it points to an underlying problem while also flagging up an area ripe for improvement if Liverpool show the ambition that they are often accused of lacking.

From Martin Skrtel and Mamadou Sakho in his first match, against Tottenham Hotspur in October 2015, through to the initial duo of Lucas and Joël Matip at the King Power, the recurring changes in permutations speak volumes for the work Klopp must still oversee before real progress can be made.

The number is slightly exaggerated by his attitude towards the cup competitions in England and explains why he twice deemed it necessary for Tiago Ilori to play alongside José Enrique.

However, that should not be allowed to deflect from the reality that an issue remains — and one that Klopp may yet feel he needs to resolve by re-entering the transfer market and recruiting reinforcements.

He has bodies — Matip, Lucas, Dejan Lovren, Ragnar Klavan and Joe Gomez — but remains without a partnership that he can truly rely on, one that forms the solid platform that enables a team to push on.

Liverpool’s most successful double-act under Klopp has been the pairing of Lovren and Matip, who have been on the losing side just once in the 12 matches that they have been deployed together.

The eye-catching figure there is surely not that solitary defeat, but the number of games that they have started together — just 12 of Liverpool’s 35 games since Matip joined in the summer, notwithstanding the fact that they would not have been expected to feature in all of them.

Matip has looked a commanding presence in flashes since his arrival from Schalke 04, but he was nowhere to be seen when Jamie Vardy was isolating Lucas in Leicester’s 3-1 victory. He should have been the one guiding his team-mate, senior in years but junior in terms of defensive expertise, through the tumult but there was seldom any evidence of that.

If that served as an irritation for Klopp, then so must Lovren’s inability to repeat game after game after game and make himself indispensable. The most consecutive matches the Croatian has played under Klopp is seven, and he visited Hans Müller-Wohlfahrt, the Munich doctor, last week with the knee problem that flared up last month.

Lovren has made the most appearances of any centre back under Klopp (58) and can frequently look like the player around whom title challenges can be based. Yet that failure to be there week in, week out will gnaw away at his manager.

Jamie Carragher once tried to play on with a broken leg and, while few are like him, the challenge is to find another player as dependable, and talented, as Carragher, who missed just nine league games from 2004-05 to 2009-10.

It would be a fair assumption, given that Klopp recruited Matip and inherited Lovren, that the latter is the one who must prove himself and massage away any misgivings. If he does not, then Sakho has shown him how the fall from grace manifests itself.

Klopp’s most-used partnership remains that of Lovren and Sakho, who have played together 14 times — the most recent of which was in April 2016 — losing just three, but are unlikely to be in tandem again.

In many respects, Sakho, now on loan at Crystal Palace, came to epitomise the flaw. Often he stood out in big games only for his own unreliability to surface when his manager still needed him. The failed drugs test — which was later overturned by Uefa — can be seen as the point at which his Liverpool career started to unravel, but that he took slimming pills alludes to fitness issues.

Liverpool’s defensive concerns can be widened to the triangle between goalkeeper and the centre backs given the setbacks endured by Simon Mignolet and Loris Karius, but Klopp has yet to offer any indication that he will seek to recruit a new goalkeeper this summer.

The Anfield club’s attitude to the transfer market, pursuing potential rather than proven talent, increases the possibility of mistakes, but this is an area where a solution needs to be found. Sakho will be sold if a buyer is forthcoming, while a decision will be made on Lucas’s future, which could leave Klopp down to four: Matip, Lovren, Klavan and Gomez.

Fewer permutations perhaps, but Klopp must decide whether a title-challenging partnership can be forged from within. Increasingly, the evidence says not.
 
I'm sorry but those calling for Sakho reinstatement are forgetting his actions at this club. He pissed his liverpool career up the wall. He was late to training. Late to meetings. He stormed out of the ground against Everton when he wasn't selected. He interrupted Klopps interview. He took to slagging off Klopp on social media when drunk. He's had multiple warnings and is just a complete dickhead. You can't let someone like that recover their career here. We surely now realise most modern footballers are basically immature dickheads. A line has to be drawn about what is acceptable and Klopp is completely right in binning the cunt off. That doesn't excuse Klopp for not signing cover in January.
 
I'm sorry but those calling for Sakho reinstatement are forgetting his actions at this club. He pissed his liverpool career up the wall. He was late to training. Late to meetings. He stormed out of the ground against Everton when he wasn't selected. He interrupted Klopps interview. He took to slagging off Klopp on social media when drunk. He's had multiple warnings and is just a complete dickhead. You can't let someone like that recover their career here. We surely now realise most modern footballers are basically immature dickheads. A line has to be drawn about what is acceptable and Klopp is completely right in binning the cunt off. That doesn't excuse Klopp for not signing cover in January.

Well, to be fair, we should trim down that list a tiny bit:

The idiots at LFCTV got him to mess about and interrupt Klopp's interview with them. It's high time those buffoons had their access limited.

I'm not aware there's any evidence he was drunk.

And as for storming out of the ground when he wasn't selected, while I don't condone it, I wish a few more players we have would show a bit of that passion to play. When some are whining about having to train later than tea time and others look like they've been forced to play against their will, give me a Sakho or a Bellamy any day.

But as you say, he's the been irresponsible, and the fact that he needed to take slimming pills is a sign that something was up with him (although, as Kolo showed, that's hardly proof that a player can't come back and learn from such issues). I was critical of Klopp's decision because, in my view, you're punishing the club almost as much as the player when you freeze him out and don't have much back-up. If you need changes for cup games and/or back-to-back league games, and your other options are Lucas and Klavan, then play Sakho as and when, push him to prove himself and then, if you still doubt him, sell him in the summer.

But it's done now. He's gone. End of.

We don't really have anyone at under-23 level currently who looks even remotely likely to make it as a CB at senior level, so we really need to recruit well.

We need to buy the crown jewels this summer - a tried and tested top class keeper, CB, midfielder and forward. A spine for a spineless side.
 
I'm sorry but those calling for Sakho reinstatement are forgetting his actions at this club. He pissed his liverpool career up the wall. He was late to training. Late to meetings. He stormed out of the ground against Everton when he wasn't selected. He interrupted Klopps interview. He took to slagging off Klopp on social media when drunk. He's had multiple warnings and is just a complete dickhead. You can't let someone like that recover their career here. We surely now realise most modern footballers are basically immature dickheads. A line has to be drawn about what is acceptable and Klopp is completely right in binning the cunt off. That doesn't excuse Klopp for not signing cover in January.

The weirdest part is Klopp had clearly decided he was done wit Sakho during pre-season. He had 5 months to find a replacement and didn't bother. Klopp engineered this situation it wasn't forced on him. I Just dont see what his plan for the rest of the season was. There just isn't a decent centre half pairing at the club capable of staying fit for more than 5 games in a row.
 
Klopp' tried to be too fucking clever. I'm sure the owners have agreed and are happy for him to spend money but I think it's him banking it - ready for a splurge on a sever big Klopp type a players when he qualified CL this year. That was also the thinking in January when everyone knew it was an opportunity to bring players in for some cover and try to consolidate our top four position
 
We need to buy the crown jewels this summer - a tried and tested top class keeper, CB, midfielder and forward. A spine for a spineless side.

whilst i completely agree macca, the issue we have is how can we attract players of that calibre?

We've not been relevant on the european level for a while, and footballers have a short memory.

Any quality CB would surely be a target for other clubs who are 1)more successful recently, or 2) have a lot more money to throw about.

So then do we buy the tier below...but thats what we've been doing for years! Buy older ones? But then we're up slack alley a year or 2 down the line with expensive old players

We're in a horrible situation now where we've bought highly thought of youth centre backs, but they've not developed (see ilori, maybe gomez), and we can't afford them the time to develop because the fans bay for success and the owners want results. I'm sure we all would have hoped they would have come on by now, but they haven't due to injuries or bizarre lack of playing time


Maybe we just have to go all out for youth again, but actually play the fuckers.

Sule, Tah, giminez, rugani. All young, all highly thought of. Say to them they're a guranteed starter. Build up their confidence. Don't just put them at the back of a queue where the players in front of you are shite

And thats just Centre backs. Fuck knows how we're going to sort centre midfield and a striker.
 
The top end "youth" players are unattainable as well.

The likes of Marquinhos, Varane, Sule, Bailly all went to top clubs and played.
 
The top end "youth" players are unattainable as well.

The likes of Marquinhos, Varane, Sule, Bailly all went to top clubs and played.
Therein lies the rub.

What do we do? Buy average and hope to turn them in to classy players? Because thats what we've been doing for a while and we've had minimal success

We're at a stage now where, truth be told, we're fucked unless we can somehow coax legendary performances out of middling players.
 
The top end "youth" players are unattainable as well.

The likes of Marquinhos, Varane, Sule, Bailly all went to top clubs and played.

This is one of the things that concerns me about FSG. You look at the prices being paid for top young players these days. Sane £38m, Martial £40m, Sterling £40m, Shaw £32m, Jesus £28m, Sanches £28m. That's more than our annual transfer budget gone on one young player. I don't think they have the appetite to compete for that level of player and it's not like we need just one. We could do with 3 or 4 really good young guys as well as 1 or 2 proven talents.
 
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