I thought the back three with the extra centre back made us look pretty good passing the ball out from the back yesterday, that and a goalkeeper without thrupenny shaped feet.
Sakho
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I thought the back three with the extra centre back made us look pretty good passing the ball out from the back yesterday, that and a goalkeeper without thrupenny shaped feet.
This is where you get to the tricky part of how much credit to give to our team and how much blame to apportion to Arsenal.
I agree that we looked more composed yesterday but I also think that Arsenal didn't work or press as hard as some of the 'lesser' teams we've faced this year.
I'm not really a fan of this particular 3-4-3 set up but will have to see how we get on and whether Rodgers persists with it.
Dunno if anyone else watched the pre-match warm-up drills but Sakho was ace, drag backs and Cruyff turns in tight positions. This guy is class on the ball, passes the ball well, composed and always looking forward.
His weakness to me is in the air because for a big guy he is not commanding and lets far too many balls go over his head or misheads.
His weakness to me is in the air because for a big guy he is not commanding and lets far too many balls go over his head or misheads.
100%.
Bloody tapatalk - haven't seen this thread but was going to start one.
I thought Sakho was an eye-opener against Arsenal. I've been a critic of his since during last season - largely cause he looks slower than treacle. His positioning against Arsenal was excellent; he was dominant in the air for the most part; he was (eerily) calm - particularly in possession and composed. He looked rushed in possession a couple of times but he knew exactly what he was going to do and simply knew that he needed to rush to get it done.
That second goal which has been discussed a lot misses the main point IMO. Henderson's efforts to get back were better suited to a local Sunday league game. With him nowhere near the area Toure had to come right across to close down; Skrtel then had to come across - probably too far - and Sakho didn't adjust to that quickly enough. Skrtel and Sakho were split second decisions whereas Hendo's decision lasted about 15 seconds - the time it took him to cover 35 yards. I actually think he was heavily responsible for both goals.
I'd like to see Sakho with Skrtel in a back four or the exact same formation that Rurik has shown above in a back three.
Probably not popular but I'd prefer to see Moreno in the right wing-back role instead of Henderson but there are trade-offs either way with that one.
As for Sakho - I hope it isn't a false dawn. He's one of the worlds best for France and he brings a lot of qualities we really need - not least a dominant aerial presence. If that performance was anything to go by then playing him consistently could be exactly what the team has been crying out for. He's had a season to bed in - maybe now we're about to see his France form every week.
It baffles me, our other centre backs actually misplace passes, or lose the ball when under pressure, Sakho avoids doing this, but because he looks gangly everyone assumes he cant play football. Kolo was pressed and played the ball out for a throw in multiple times on Sunday, I dont remember Sakho doing it once, yet apparently he's the one who can't pass, as someone rightly mentioned earlier, that 20mins against City has really stuck in peoples mind.
Not a fan of the idea of Moreno on the right, but excellent post all told.
I've been thinking about this ( what a sad old fucker I must be ) and watched 20 mins of the game again. Arsenal did try to press the defence, but having the extra centre back meant they had to commit another man forward which they couldn't do without leaving a gaping hole in their midfield. We had more options to play the ball around without putting a player under pressure and Hendo and Markovic sat a little bit deeper. I doubt it will take long for an opposition to work out a better way to set up against this system
Good post, I'd also have reservations about Moreno at right wing back, especially when we have a seemingly perfect young player in Manquillo who could play the position. I am baffled he's not got more game time recently.
To have your three defenders covering the near post leaving the middle of your goal completely open? I'd suggest you were taught basic defending 101 by the opposition.
In Skrtel's defense, he'd had his head stamped on 5 minutes earlier, Sakho was all over the place, same for the first goal. The first header that was flicked on, I can't remember whether it was Toure or Sakho, but one of them had the player and then both of them moved into no mans land leaving the player free.
Shite instructions all over.
And what was Skrtel doing exactly? Sakho can't follow Giroud, he's covering the ball going across to Welbeck whos running in on the far post and would have a tap/head in. Skrtel has to cover the ball that does come across, and when Giroud pulls off Sakho towards the near post, he has to pick him up, instead he stands still on the corner of the 6 yard box not really offering anything. It's Skrtel's fault.
Like I said, he'd been stamped on 5 minutes earlier, he was all over the placed for a good 5-10 minutes after the incident and then seemed to get his head together again. I know you don't rate Skrtel, but he can't be blamed for everything, he put his head in where it hurts, which is more than can be said for the rest.
Skrtel was at fault, but I agree with you, he was unlucky with the timing
Sakho wasn't at fault for the second goal
And not for the first either
They're all good centre backs mate, we can't be that bad that 50m worth of centre back talent is all dross. They have their flaws (who doesn't?), but a better set up would see them become a better unit.
I'm not blaming Skrtel as in trying to lynch him, personally I think the centre backs were hung out to dry by the wing backs and midfield, I'm just not having people blaming it on Sakho when it wasn't his ball to defend, Skrtel could have done more yes (of course being stamped on the head wouldn't have helped), but the real issue was further up the pitch.
The real issue was first Gerrard giving the ball away (and doing naught to recover) and Henderson dawdling back like he's on an after dinner stroll. Everyone else was trying to cover those two mistakes.
I personally don't think Skrtel did much wrong. He and Toure were sold up the river by a wing back nowhere near the play - much like the first goal.
I personally don't think Skrtel did much wrong. He and Toure were sold up the river by a wing back nowhere near the play - much like the first goal.
As you and Wiz say, both goals can be attributed to mistakes higher up the pitch.
The problem for me is that, as soon as an opponent starts an attack and gets into our half, you can more or less wager we'll be exposed and under pressure, that's largely the fault of the midfield and hugely attributable to how open our system is. I've said this for ages, our ability to recover from stretched banks at the back and in midfield is virtually non-existent. You'd have to be Superman to to be able to recover from playing as wide centre backs almost in the fullback roles, as soon as we lose the ball, especially against sides like Arsenal, two passes and you're completely carved open. It's not down to slack play, it's down to players being given it all to do to get back in position, with too much ground to then cover, because the opponents are exposing the acres of space they're being afforded. It has to stop, we have to go back to a bank of players who are tight as a unit, until we do, we'll just see more and more of the same.
I understand Rodgers wants to go for goals and pile on the pressure to do so, but we have to build from the back, we'll never get back to challenging consistently until we grow a back bone. All out attack is great, it's a beautiful game, but it comes at a price, you have to strike a balance.
Yep, the system is always going to leave us vulnerable, but I don't want to abandon the way we play, we don't have to be great defenders, we just have to be competent. The first goal for example, that wasn't a fault with the system, it was a fault with all three of our centre backs making a hash of things. If we can cut out the silly mistakes, we'd be conceding a lot less goals.
Take the last three games, we've conceded an awful goal in all three, we all know about the shambles that was Sakho and Toue heading the same ball sidewards across our box and then Skrtel not bothering to challenge Debuchy for the ball, shocking. Then there was the goal against Bournemouth where their player skipped past the challenge of Lucas (who really should be getting goal side of the player instead of running behind him) and then shimmied the ball and shot as Kolo and Henderson watched on, and Jones embarrassed himself, another easily preventable goal. Then the worst of the lot is the goal Dejan gifted United though, it's dreadful, thats nothing to do with the system, thats just yet another personal error by a Liverpool defender. If we can cut this crap out, and it shouldn't be hard, sure we'd still concede goals, but we'd stop gifting teams points.
Isn't that an inherent risk with wingbacks?
It's alot earier for a defense to be organised if they know their positions and are regrouped to combat an attack. Running back into position causes uncertainty and leads to collective and individual errors. It's ok saying it's easy to cut out mistakes, if they were more cohesive and controlled as a unit then this would cut out mistakes more. We play like an amateur side in that sense, we attack as a unit and then everyone just seems to be instructed to run back and plug the nearest hole or mark the nearest player, that's not a system, it's a fiasco.
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