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Strikerless in Manchester

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Modo

A contentious scando
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No Benteke, no Sturridge. The latter has just come back from injury so no explanation needed but why didn't Benteke play?

I've probably missed something but I haven't heard why Klopp decided to play Firmino upfront against city. Was it tactical? Was Benteke injured?

Klopp got it spot on though and the three upfront combined well with the midfield and our fullbacks, so no complaints from me.

But this here got me wondering:

I re-iterate, Klopp likes his starters aggressive and mobile, does CB fit into this long term? Interesting Firming gets nod. @talkSPORT
— Stan Collymore (@StanCollymore) November 21, 2015
(Firming....hahaha)

Yes, Klopp tried to sign Benteke while at Dortmund, but does he really fit in?
He isn't that mobile, his runs aren't exactly perfect. However, he's monster in the air and he holds up the ball well and he's a proven scorer.
Looking at the strikers Klopp had at Dortmund, Sturridge fits the mould better than Benteke does.

I could imagine that a fit Sturridge would play upfront with Firmino just behind him and Coutinho and Lallana on the wings.

Kind of touched on the subject here: http://sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/the-players-perspective.73138/#post-1345052

Maybe it's just a case of rotation and certain players fitting certain teams. I don't know...
 
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I think Klopp will rotate his starting lineups as per the game he wanta us to play.
Yesterday we were away to the league leaders, and his game was based on pressing and counter attacking, so the front three he picked were with that in mind. It was a similar case at Chelsea.

I guess we wilk have to play a different game at home facing parked busses. He may pick Benteke who has a presence in the box, and might be more useful when we have lots of possesion and try to break a tight defence.
 
I think Klopp will rotate his starting lineups as per the game he wanta us to play.
Yesterday we were away to the league leaders, and his game was based on pressing and counter attacking, so the front three he picked were with that in mind. It was a similar case at Chelsea.

I guess we wilk have to play a different game at home facing parked busses. He may pick Benteke who has a presence in the box, and might be more useful when we have lots of possesion and try to break a tight defence.

Good point or points.
However that would mean that Benteke would have been the perfect fit against CP, but he wasn't and that worries me a bit.
 
Prior to today/yesterday most of us talked about having another striker, but based yesterday's evidence we might not need to spend the money on an expensive forward. We can now look to spend the money elsewhere. I don't think we need a new goal keeper as yet, even though Mings mistake cost us a goal against Palace. DM for sure. Clyne and Milner cannot keep playing at the same intensity with out a rest. We have adequate players to replace him, the RB is however a worry when Clyne isn't going to be there.
 
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Well Klopp had nothing but nice things to say about Benteke after the match and emphasised not only his contribution once he came on but his value to the club. You're making a mountain out of this molehill.
 
He said he tried to keep most of the spine from the players that had been at Melwood during the international week.
Firmino and Coutinho had trained together for 10-12 days.

As with several other issues we dont have to overanalyze every one.
So he rotates, we had options on the bench and Klopp will change it around depending on who we play. Whats not to like.
It doesnt mean Benteke will be moved on or that Firmino will play upfront in the future.
 
Perhaps, but even if he were to do that we've got the right manager to deal with it. Klopp was used to such things happening at Dortmund and did a great job carrying on regardless.
 
As I said in the other thread, it's probably in some ways been convenient he's been injured, because I think away from home we fair much better when we play a bit more fluid as a team, with a front six that's moving and interchanging, it's much better for counterattacking and much more difficult for the opposition to pick up. When we lose energy late in games and end up a bit more under the cosh, you can put him on and use him as an outlet to hold things up to give you time to get forward and support.

That said, at home he's a sound option because that's when you want things to stick in the box, to try and latch onto the second ball and make something happen that way, instead of trying to just play through teams and rely on patient build up, which as we have seen, is our undoing when teams park the bus. We're not going to counter attack against them at home, so he becomes useful in terms of being a battering ram (for want of a better word, and to not do him a disservice).

It's good to have options, but I'd said for a few months, Firmino will play as an attacker, so all these assumptions about Ings, Benteke and Sturridge were completely overlooking someone who has the talent to at least partly replicate something we've lacked since Suarez left.
 
As an aside, I think Lallana's form has been great of late, Klopps seems to have had a word to him about being a bit more decisive instead of hesitating, which was everyone's justifiable criticism of him. Longterm I'm not sure how secure his place is, but he looked the part yesterday alongside Firmino and Coutinho.
 
This lack of mobility chat about benteke is bollocks

He presses fantastically, links well, and generally is a fucking beast

He played firmino for pace and fleet footedness to upset an aging demichelis and nervy mangala
 
This lack of mobility chat about benteke is bollocks

He presses fantastically, links well, and generally is a fucking beast

He played firmino for pace and fleet footedness to upset an aging demichelis and nervy mangala

It's not about a lack of mobility, it's about "less" mobility. Like I said, he's good at linking up and his workrate is pretty good, but he's not as fleet footed as some players, he's no slouch but he's not a perfect fit into a counterattacking set up either.
 
There's many ways to counterattack. We punt the ball long and he wins it and retain possession before a pacier player helps him. He makes a break using his pace (which he does have) and strength to hold of a Cb. A player breaks down the wing and he ghosts in to the box for a cross on to his bonce or feet.

I'd understand if we were talking about someone with zero pace, zero aerial presence, or zero strength
 
There's many ways to counterattack. We punt the ball long and he wins it and retain possession before a pacier player helps him. He makes a break using his pace (which he does have) and strength to hold of a Cb. A player breaks down the wing and he ghosts in to the box for a cross on to his bonce or feet.

I'd understand if we were talking about someone with zero pace, zero aerial presence, or zero strength

Yeah I know, the bottom line is, against Chelsea and now City, it worked. Put three players on who are busy and will interchange and give the opposition a torrid time, then bring Benteke on and, in those two games alone, he's had a hand in three goals. It's win win really. Against some teams he'll start, against others Sturridge, Firmino or whoever else will. It's the beauty of having options that offer different things and it coming together so that all are contributing towards positive results.

I'm not dissing Benteke and I don't think Modo is, just questioning his suitability to certain games/situations. We could do the same of Firmino, by the same token.
 
We've paid £35m for a striker that will give us options from the bench & start occasionally.

I think that's great - we just have to populate the rest of the team with equally good players and make all of them justify their place.

That and whatever voodoo it takes to keep Sturridge fit.
 
Didnt we change the game and started winning when Benteke got subbed on at Chelsea?

He did, that's why I said he's contributed hugely to both wins. It's still a valid point, to take the sting out of both sides and to go at them from the off, we started with a more fluid set up that could interchange. I think the point is that Lallana, Firmino and Coutinho could all play across the front and their ability to not have to stick to the one position is what had both defenses run ragged. I'm not sure Benteke is capable of that, but what he does give us something the other three don't - a focal point and "proper" finishing ability.

Klopp said pretty much the same in the interview Modo posted, so I'm not sure why people are taking it so hard as an unfair criticism, or that's we're saying he's got "zero pace", that's not the case at all, but the difference in style is obvious.
 
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Its superb to have all these options, we've spent so long complaining about the lack of options off our bench, but just look at it yesterday, it was better than City's! We need the depth, and we need these kind of headaches if were going to challenge in more than one competition, and Benteke, Firmino and Sturridge are the mother of all migraines.
 
Ultimately I think Firmino's place will be behind the striker or as second "support" striker. Klopp kept reminding him to stay forward, which shows that playing as a striker is not quite his natural game. His finishing is also possibly not quite clinical enough for a main striker (but for an attacking midfielder he does carry a very good goal threat).

All signs point to Sturridge and Benteke being rotated up top, and the 3 AMs behind them chosen from the selection of Firmino, Coutinho, Lallana, Ibe, Henderson, Milner, and Teixeira. Looks not bad!
 
We will need a big squad to rotate if he plan to play like we did against chelsea/city for rest of the season.
 
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