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The real culprit...

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
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Let's leave aside the Gerrard incident – I think Rodgers was right when he said what really cost us was our timid 1st half display, with very little possession, almost no high pressure, not a single tackle (!) etc etc. How could this happen, how could we come out at home in one of the biggest games of the season and completely blow it in the first 45 minutes? I see 3 possible explanations:

1. The players, especially the younger ones, get overwhelmed by the pressure of the big game.
2. Van Gal found the right tactics to disrupt our build-up play and pin us with with high press in a similar way as Swansea a week ago. Which means opposition managers started figuring out how to play against our 3-4-3 system.
3. Maybe 3-4-3 system is fine, but it's not as effective with Sturridge as opposed to Sterling up top. Also having in-form wing-backs is really important in that system; now Ibe is injured and both Markovic and Moreno are in poor runs of form, so our "wings" are not working as they should.

What's your theory?
 
I think we've lost a bit of the intensity that made the unbeaten run so impressive - perhaps like last year, we get a bit too cocky and sure of ourselves and then when a real test comes, we start shrinking.
 
I think no. 1 is probably a cliche, runs come to an end often because that bit of luck that existed to enable the unbeaten run has run out.

There's no doubt that Uniteds approach unsettled us, but that's nothing new. We've been poor at dealing with sides that press aggressively for years
 
Our best performances are when we go out with high energy, press all over the pitch and have lots of players moving around up front making it difficult for the opposition. Yesterday we sat back, let them have the ball and kept a poor shape when defending. United dominated the first half but still only had one chance - the game was there for the taking and we should have gone out all guns blazing. Like so many teams this season we played the aura of United and not the team on the pitch with an awful defence that would fold under any serious pressure.
 
I think no. 1 is probably a cliche, runs come to an end often because that bit of luck that existed to enable the unbeaten run has run out.

There's no doubt that Uniteds approach unsettled us, but that's nothing new. We've been poor at dealing with sides that press aggressively for years

It's not just luck, otherwise that's making the assumption that we've been lucky for a run of 15 games, while one singular poor game is the norm, which is backwards thinking. We got lucky against Swansea, we were also unlucky against Arsenal, it's swings and roundabouts, it's not based on a run of fortuitous form. We were shite yesterday in the first half and that cost us, every team has a poor display in them and that was ours of late, coinciding with a dip in form from a few key players, notably Can, Sterling and Lallana who have each been poor for a few games now.

Southampton press too and they gave us a game at their place, but we still came away with the points, so it's myopic to suggest that we struggle against every team that presses. Everton like to press teams too, but look at the state of them at the minute, look what we did to them last season.
 
I didnt say it was just luck.

But luck is involved.

Of course it is, but it's not a massive deciding factor, form is everything - you can't factor in luck too heavily when we've gone 15 games or whatever unbeaten, you make your own luck when you're in that kind of form, like Henderson making a gamble with that run to close down the ball against Swansea. We didn't see that kind of determination or opportunism yesterday, because we were timid, lacking in confidence because of a poor start, etc.
 
My theory is that we got beat yesterday as all the players were fucking rubbish.
They are capable of playing much much better than that, in that system, against better opposition, and have done this season. They just all bottled it, that's all.
Seeing as Henderson is likely to be the captain next season, I was looking at him yesterday to grab those players by the balls and drag them through it. But nothing.
I don't understand how we can go from such an exceptional performance against city, to such a poor one against a lesser team.
 
Rodgers set us up wrong..

He should of learnt from the Old Trafford game..

A holding midfeilder in Lucas was required with Sterling up top alongside coutinho behind Sturridge..

In lucas we needed a player that could win the ball in midfield.. Allen was being dominated.. Lallana was ineffective..

He is also ruining Sterling by playing him as a RWB..

Hopefully with Ibe being back after the international break.. he will pack that in..

Sterling is far more effective in the middle..
 
It's one bad result in Lord knows how long. seriously, what were people thinking? that we were going to beat everyone until the end of the season? yeh it was shit yesterday, but fourth is far from lost. Onwards and upwards and all that.......
 
It's one bad result in Lord knows how long. seriously, what were people thinking? that we were going to beat everyone until the end of the season? yeh it was shit yesterday, but fourth is far from lost. Onwards and upwards and all that.......


Beat Arsenal.. we are back in it.. anything else.. we are out of it..

Arsenal game has become a must win game...
 
Beat Arsenal.. we are back in it.. anything else.. we are out of it..

Arsenal game has become a must win game...

There are more games to go, but it's looking like a decisive game. United are capable of dropping points along the way too, but they look in decent form now, while we've started to splutter a bit.

Sturridge is no good on his own, we need to either put Sterling back up there with him, or even Mario. Get Johnson back in at right wing back to give us a bit more balance and stability, put a rocket up Moreno's backside aswell.

If Lucas is fit I'd look to get him back in the middle, we've looked more vulnerable with Allen there, despite him having a run of a few good games, yesterday underlined the frustration with him over the last two years.

For Arsenal, I'd go with:

-------------------Mignolet-------------------
--------Skrtel----Lovren----Sakho--------
-Johnson--------Can-------------Moreno-
---Henderson---Sterling---Coutinho----
------------------Sturridge-------------------
 
There are more games to go, but it's looking like a decisive game. United are capable of dropping points along the way too, but they look in decent form now, while we've started to splutter a bit.

Sturridge is no good on his own, we need to either put Sterling back up there with him, or even Mario. Get Johnson back in at right wing back to give us a bit more balance and stability, put a rocket up Moreno's backside aswell.

If Lucas is fit I'd look to get him back in the middle, we've looked more vulnerable with Allen there, despite him having a run of a few good games, yesterday underlined the frustration with him over the last two years.

For Arsenal, I'd go with:

-------------------Mignolet-------------------
--------Skrtel----Lovren----Sakho--------
-Johnson--------Can-------------Moreno-
---Henderson---Sterling---Coutinho----
------------------Sturridge-------------------


Ibe will back for that game.. certain to start (or should be)
 
Obviously there are internationals before then, so the side will probably be decimated by then.
 
Personally I thought the Lallana miss was the turning point, that was a gimme and if it had gone in it would have been a sucker punch that knocked the wind out of them, the completely dominated the first 30 mins and then we grew into the game as it went on, instead that miss reinforced the idea that it just wasnt going to be our day
 
Henderson and Allen crumbling at the occasion was disappointing, but Sterling at wing back was the major issue (not Sterling's fault). I mentioned in my other thread, but it was full blown naivety from Rodgers, he thought he could play Sterling there and tell him to play very high and attack United and have no consequence, it just didn't work and we lost a lot of our shape because of that and struggled to find any passing rhythm. If we'd have played more conservatively, and tried to control the game, things would have been a lot different I feel. Still, I suppose it still took two absolutely top class finishes from Mata to do us.
 
He has opted to play sterling at RWB since IBE got injured..

IBE will back for the Arsenal game.. so hopefully Rodgers will pack that in...

Sterling needs to play in the middle, behind Studge where he is far more effective..
 
Rodgers set us up wrong..

He should of learnt from the Old Trafford game..

A holding midfeilder in Lucas was required with Sterling up top alongside coutinho behind Sturridge..

In lucas we needed a player that could win the ball in midfield.. Allen was being dominated.. Lallana was ineffective..

He is also ruining Sterling by playing him as a RWB..

Hopefully with Ibe being back after the international break.. he will pack that in..

Sterling is far more effective in the middle..


Yup, it's annoying when people should have learned something by now but they just aren't bothered.
 
I can't believe the players were intimidated. Most of them have played big games like that before and dominated them. We're certainly too predictable; it's almost as if we've become a coaching exercise for other managers. And too inflexible: we don't change things quickly enough, if at all. And we lack someone not just with Suarez's skill but also his snarling, fighting attitude. Sturridge could drift around and exploit the havoc Suarez created. On his own now he is essentially a reactive forward; he doesn't press enough, he doesn't gamble enough, he doesn't fight enough. In the short term, in other words this season, we've got a few wild cards for the closing minutes (Harry Wilson, for example) - young, super-fast and super-confident kids who'll be unfamiliar to defenders and would at least shake things up a bit - but in the longer term we really need Henderson and Can to show much more appetite for a battle and we also need a seriously fearless, industrious and imaginative striker.
 
He has opted to play sterling at RWB since IBE got injured..

IBE will back for the Arsenal game.. so hopefully Rodgers will pack that in...

Sterling needs to play in the middle, behind Studge where he is far more effective..

I don't altogether agree with that. Sterling's been plenty effective when he's played as a wide right midfielder/forward. He definitely shouldn't be picked at wingback any more though.
 
Two things for me. 3 if you include Moreno for being shit.

1) 3-4-3 is ineffective if your forwards don't hassle and press. Studge has been lethargic and laborious of late and many have noticed this had disrupted our rhythm. When teams press us, we lose that upperhand and puts our midfield under pressure to stay deep and defend. That leaves our front 3 going deeper to hunt for the ball. So when we get it back we don't have an outlet to break fast unlike last year. Normally when teams break on the counter they hit it to the sidelines but teams have started to put an extra man on the flanks. Each time Liverpool tried to pass it down the flanks, United put 3 men to quickly close us down. When you add in underperforming FBs, suddenly we don't know how to play the system.

2) When the above happens, it's absolutely crucial to control and win the midfield battle. Allen and Hendo are more technical players but what you need is someone to do the dirty work. Someone who will pick up those loose balls, be a nuisance. Yesterday's match was crying out for Lucas but I suppose he's still not match fit.

I'd like to see Lucas play for the Arse game. I'd put Hendo on the right, with Allen and Lucas in the middle. Sterling should be up top where he belongs.
 
Two things for me. 3 if you include Moreno for being shit.

1) 3-4-3 is ineffective if your forwards don't hassle and press. Studge has been lethargic and laborious of late and many have noticed this had disrupted our rhythm. When teams press us, we lose that upperhand and puts our midfield under pressure to stay deep and defend. That leaves our front 3 going deeper to hunt for the ball. So when we get it back we don't have an outlet to break fast unlike last year. Normally when teams break on the counter they hit it to the sidelines but teams have started to put an extra man on the flanks. Each time Liverpool tried to pass it down the flanks, United put 3 men to quickly close us down. When you add in underperforming FBs, suddenly we don't know how to play the system.

2) When the above happens, it's absolutely crucial to control and win the midfield battle. Allen and Hendo are more technical players but what you need is someone to do the dirty work. Someone who will pick up those loose balls, be a nuisance. Yesterday's match was crying out for Lucas but I suppose he's still not match fit.

I'd like to see Lucas play for the Arse game. I'd put Hendo on the right, with Allen and Lucas in the middle. Sterling should be up top where he belongs.
Disaster waiting to happen.

Allen and Lucas in the middle with Henderson on The right!!!!


Lucas & Henderson in the middle
Studge and Sterling up front
With Coutinho in the number 10 role.. IBE at RWB... Would be ideal..
 
What went wrong? It would be quicker to say what went right!

We didn't deal with Fellaini from the start. Henderson started marking him and then stopped and left it to Allen which was a total mismatch. For me in the first half our captain went missing. Then the other captain came on and finished the job.

Moreno was a shithouse and Sterling shouldn't be out there, but at least his recent performances could be a reality check on his wage demands.

Sakho was the best we had but he also took time to settle.

Basically it was a collective off day. Just utterly frustrating that it had to be against that fucking shower because when we did pressure them, they looked utterly ordinary and unsettled at the back. Smalling is utter dross.

Onwards and upwards.
 
Let's leave aside the Gerrard incident – I think Rodgers was right when he said what really cost us was our timid 1st half display, with very little possession, almost no high pressure, not a single tackle (!) etc etc. How could this happen, how could we come out at home in one of the biggest games of the season and completely blow it in the first 45 minutes? I see 3 possible explanations:

1. The players, especially the younger ones, get overwhelmed by the pressure of the big game.
2. Van Gal found the right tactics to disrupt our build-up play and pin us with with high press in a similar way as Swansea a week ago. Which means opposition managers started figuring out how to play against our 3-4-3 system.
3. Maybe 3-4-3 system is fine, but it's not as effective with Sturridge as opposed to Sterling up top. Also having in-form wing-backs is really important in that system; now Ibe is injured and both Markovic and Moreno are in poor runs of form, so our "wings" are not working as they should.

What's your theory?


Anyone that presses high against us has a 50/50 chance. We defend too deep, we don't have a leader at the back to move us forward. We've got two inexperienced kids at wing-back who continually get caught out positionally. We only have one central midfielder who can get on the ball consistently. And we have a striker that doesn't run in behind. At the moment all our best work starts 80 metres from the opposition's goal.
 
I'll tell you want went wrong!!!

Too many fuckers on here made fucking Jinxy "we're gonna smash 'em" posts in fucking jinxy-winxy threads.
 
Sterling could barely break into a jog towards the end. I remember thinking at the time that it wouldn't have looked so odd, given we'd played the second half with ten men, if it hadn't been for the fact that he hadn't actually seemed to have worked as hard as usual.
 
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