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What's wrong: attack

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Two league defeats in a row and an unconvincing performance against Ludogoretz undid all of the early optimism and excitement after what most of us considered a successful summer transfer season. Much has been said about the state of the midfield and of defense. I think defense deserves a separate discussion at a later time; it's clear we have problems, but at this point it's not clear what exactly is wrong (because right now everything seems to be wrong at the same time). I would reserve judgement on Lovren, Mignolet, Sakho etc for now and wait at least a few more weeks until hopefully things start settling down.

Our midfield suffers from simultaneous loss of Allen and Can; the issues of playing Gerrard and Lucas together are well-documented; Henderson is asked to do too much and cover for too many players at once, babysitting new arrivals such as Manquillo and trying compensate for every other weakness in the team – it's too big an ask even for Hendo the Superman. Gerrard is starting the season slowly again, like he did the last 2 seasons – I'm sure he will improve, but maybe he won't be able to sustain a run of great form, like February to May last year, for as long or as high a performance level. Unfortunately with all the injures Rodgers can't rest him and with all the turbulence from the new arrivals, it might not be a wise thing anyway. Overall, I don't subscribe to the view that our midfield needs to be fundamentally changed. Unless there are long-term injuries, I see absolutely no reason why it can't be as good or better than last year. In particular, I am expecting improvement from Allen and Can should bring us a different dimension with his physicality.

The biggest reason for our overall drop in performance compared to last year is clearly in the attacking third. This is why all the balance in the team is looking wrong at the moment: the attack that used to scare teams is now laboring badly. I see one big overriding reason for this: style confusion.

With Suarez leading the attack there was no doubt about how we are going to go about things: keep the ball on the ground, constant movement by every attacking player, pressing immediately after losing the ball. Our most potent attacking weapons as a team were quick one-twos on the edge of the area and through-balls into space. Each player among the attacking 3 or 4 had enough technique to pull off those quick 1-2 passes, enough vision to play a well-timed through-ball, and enough speed to get on the end of one. This meant all 3 or 4 attackers could interchange at will, which created enormous problems for the defenders – even if we couldn't score an early goal, after 30-40 minutes of applying such pressure we'd force most defenses to get exhausted and start losing concentration.

The thing that strikes me about our attacking play now is it's predictability. Balotelli gets the ball to his feet, makes a yard of space and shoots, Sterling gets the ball into his feet and dribbles at people who simply back off and block his space to shoot, Coutinho is playing through balls to no one in particular. Players rarely run to meet the ball in space – that's always a bad sign. It's not nearly as bad, but it has shades of Kenny's 2nd season – it's like you had this fiery ball of creativity and you poured cold water on it. Our attack now is no more than the sum of its parts. Also, we seem to have no default, bread-and-butter attacking play any more. Without Suarez 1-2s on the edge of the box somehow lost their potency; the decreased appetite for pressing immediately after the ball is lost means that every failed 1-2 turns into an opposition counter-attack with a lot of our players caught in no-man's land, whereas last season we created so many opportunities after our own misplaced or intercepted forward passes (this was our 3rd big weapon). Without Sturridge and Suarez and with Sterling playing at #10 we also don't have players with speed and willingness to run onto through-balls any more. It was amazing to see how in the last 3 game this Liverpool team would at times simply struggle to produce any meaningful attacking ideas. How is that even possible?

I can see that Rodgers is trying to accommodate for Balotelli's style of play by adjusting some things we do as the team; we cross the ball more and are slowly getting better at using him as a focal point. But in readjusting the style of the team to the Plan B we seem to have lost the Plan A. Obviously injuries to Sturridge and Allen made matters much worse; Sturridge in particular is probably now the successor if Suarez as a leader of our attacking unit it terms of setting the style of play. He orchestrated our attacking play vs Spurs very well and we badly missed it since. Lallana is another potential leader (more so than Coutinho at this point) and again, we are being hurt by his pre-season injury, resulting in a lack of fitness and lack of gelling with the squad. But the good news is, with each game Lallana seems to grow more into the role of a playmaker.

Personally, I think the "core" that would ensure we don't lose the "controlled chaos" style of last year is Sturridge-Lallana-Sterling. Whenever possible, those 3 should play together. It's probably better to play Lallana in the middle and Sterling on the wing rather than the other way around. I can see many teams have done their homework on Sterling and are doing a good job of crowding him out in the middle. I also don't see Sterling as a centre-forward – strikers don't see a lot of the ball, but Sterling needs to be on the ball as much as possible (because he is great at it). Right now his problem is same as Henderson's – he is asked to do too much on his own.

Coutinho is still inconsistent (I would give him 1-2 more years to fully mature as a player), so he cannot be considered "core," even though on a good day, he can totally turbo-charge our attack and energize players around him. Whenever Coutinho and Lallana play together, I'd still like to see Lallana play in the middle.
Balotelli is a work in progress; there are encouraging signs (like he is now probably our best defender at corners – ha! Not a compliment to our CBs), but I would definitely not change our style for him. He is the one who should adjust. Besides, you never know when it all will go off the rails with him – it might happen suddenly without warning and if you've already built your team around him, you'll be in big trouble (ask AC Milan).
Markovic is a talent, but I'm still not sure what his best position is and I'm not sure Rodgers knows it either at this point. He is very far from being any kind of "core" player this season.
Borini can be a very useful player, he is the closest thing we have to Suarez in terms of work-rate. I'd like to see how he would complement Sturridge up front.

Overall, I think this crisis is solvable and we have the players and the manager to solve it. We have a serious problem in attack at the moment, but we can and should be able to build a strong attack with the players we currently have, even without Suarez.
 
I'd pin my faith in Markovic much more than in Borini. Borini is decidedly average on the ball. That makes him a non-starter in our attack for me.

Keeping Sturridge fit and healthy is the most important thing we can do for our attack this season. I'd also look at getting a top AM in January.

Also, with Origi's addition next year, our attack will be much better rounded.

I'm not overly concerned - there's plenty of talent in there - they just need to figure out how to play together in this post-Suarez era. That will take some time.

The deeper midfield and GK positions are the biggest causes of concern for me at the moment.
 
There are three issues for me, I can see two resolving themselves though for the third (Midfield), which in my opinion is the most critical, I'm not sure if BR has the balls for. If he does then a dip into the transfer market in January, or better utilising Can, Allen, Henderson and Rossiter, could solve it.

1. Without Sturridge, Suarez and Sterling up front we do not have the movement, pace and dynamism of last season. This can be resolved by playing Sterling up front when Sturridge is absent and with midfield runners like Allen, Markovic, Lallana and of course Sterling himself, when Sturridge is playing. Balotelli will get more space and can hold the ball up and feed those runners.

2. Valdes to replace Ming is an absolute must. His confidence alone will help settle that defence. Keep Lovren & Sakho together and give them time. Moreno, Manquillo, Flanno and Enrique are more than good enough as a group to cover those two FB slots.

3. Gerrard must be kept fresh and rotated. We may get another season or two out of him on the bench, but this season should be the one to see rotation and a changing of the guard. Lucas should never start, he is nowhere near the player he was before his injuries, many people are beginning to realise this now. BR certainly has a plan but injuries to Can and Allen forced him into making a poor decision, Lallana should have started in place of Lucas (as I said before the match).

4. I can add a 4th. BR is making team selection and tactical mistakes, as he did in his first season. IMHO this is because he has not yet figured out how to best use the new players at his disposal, he hasn't had the balls to bench SG (I think he'll find them) and injuries have curtailed the way he wants to set up the team (see Spurs for reference). I believe he'll get it right sooner rather than later and I do like that he is prepared to admit those mistakes and try to rectify them (3 at the back after 20 mins / Lucas off Lallana on at HT) rather than be hard-headed about it.
 
Our biggest worry is not signing a top midfielder.
Lucas is so poor he'd struggle to get into any other team in the league.
Not having someone to rotate with Stevie is just awful.
Song would have been a good option.

At this point I'd probably sign Lass Diarra on a free aswell.
Everything is better than Lucas.

As for the attack. It's clear that we struggle without the movement from Studge.
Shame we didn't get Remy as he would have solved that.
Borini is awful.
 
We are moving the ball to slowly, it gives team too much time to get back in position. We don't have Suarez to inject that genius anymore so we need speed of thought and movment to compensate.
 
The biggest difference is Coutinho playing badly, which has reduced our attack to nothing.
 
Can Henderson play at the base of the diamond? Can we fit Allen, Henderson, Lallana and Sterling into a midfield diamond?
 
Can Henderson play at the base of the diamond? Can we fit Allen, Henderson, Lallana and Sterling into a midfield diamond?

I'd rather try Allen there again, when he first arrived wasn't there a couple of games where he played that position alright before the wheels fell off?
 
Yeshe's playing poorly, but the lack of movement and control ahead and around him isn't helping him one iota.


Indeed that is probably why he isn't playing well, in addition to having a different position every week. Sterling is more flexible in that way because he can run with the ball from anywhere. But Coutinho needs angles and other people's runs to pass the ball into. You can't change those angles and runners every time and expect him to keep up.
 
At some stage when things are going well, id like to see Markovic tried alongside Sturridge. He is known for his good work rate and is nimble and good with the ball on his feet. So we can try and see if we can still play the same way as how we played with Suarez. Im certain it wont be as effective as having Suarez, but if things go well we could get close?

We had the measure of teams by 30 or 40th minute. But this season that spark is missing...
 
Not convinced by that

Long as Gerrard isn't playing I'd be happy.

We MUST use the boro game to try and decide on a strong midfield

I was clamouring for the diamond, but I'd take 4-5-1 again after how we set up against West ham

Hendo Allen

Marokovic Coutinho/lallana sterling

Balotelli

Sterling and Markovic need to know when to cut in and help Mario.
 
There's nothing to gain by risking Coutinho or Lallana in central midfield. In theory you think it gives you a three man midfield, but in reality for all their hard work and pressing neither of them actually win the ball back.
 
I don't understand why Rodgers won't play Gerrard further forward.

He'd be ideal at the tip of a midfield diamond or alongside Henderson in the middle.

Surely he can't be that fragile that he can't play there.

Mind you I've been saying this since Rodgers took over.
 
I don't understand why Rodgers won't play Gerrard further forward.

He'd be ideal at the tip of a midfield diamond or alongside Henderson in the middle.

Surely he can't be that fragile that he can't play there.

Mind you I've been saying this since Rodgers took over.
He doesn't have the legs to play alongside hendo if we have lucas behind. We need 2 high pressing cms and an adequately mobile DM. Gerrard is neither

Tip of the diamond means we drop sterling, or play him up top with balotelli

What of Lallana? Markovic? The other new boys. We can't spend so much money to then use a stop gap of Gerrard for a year or 2 maximum. The attack needs to bed in together.

I think Gerrard dropped deep because it was the only position last year where Rodgers could fit him in with little complaints.

This year he's worse in the role, as his passing seems stupidly off. And he need to STOP TAKING EVERY FUCKING SET PIECE THE FUCKING BELLEND

It's a the stage now where his best position is on the bench.
 
I aint panicking just yet but certainly weve made a tough start look even worse than it really was, Everton will be looking for a win with some confidence im sure. Rodgers has got to step up soon and get us back on track... im not expecting miracles but i remember last season our worst performance Hull away was followed by a magnificent run... we need that again or the pressure will build even more.

The pace of Sturridge is a big miss clearly and the gaps left by our new full backs and continuing uncertainty in the middle of defence...

Its a big job alright
 
His set pieces have gone from World class to horrendous so far this season
I don't think he's ever been consistently world class at deliveries

Don't get me wrong, he has whipped in some worldies , but equal amounts seem to hit the first man
 
I don't think he's ever been consistently world class at deliveries

Don't get me wrong, he has whipped in some worldies , but equal amounts seem to hit the first man

Last season his was deadly delivering from wide areas and led to loads of goals from corners and wide free kicks, but he is back to his average best.

In his defense though, Skrtel and Suarez were prime targets last year and they have been quite absent this year.
 
Last season his was deadly delivering from wide areas and led to loads of goals from corners and wide free kicks, but he is back to his average best.

In his defense though, Skrtel and Suarez were prime targets last year and they have been quite absent this year.
He was deadly delivering from wide areas because we earned loads of free kicks. With Coutinho, sterling, Sturridge and Suarez we warned a shit ton of free kicks.

His deliveries were no more than average overall

If lucas had took as many set pieces last season he probably would be within the region as well
 
Our full backs are pushing up on instruction from Rodgers. Rodgers then must realize we need a DM like Masher who will run tirelessly to protect/cover the full backs. Gerrard is incapable of that.
 
Our full backs are pushing up on instruction from Rodgers. Rodgers then must realize we need a DM like Masher who will run tirelessly to protect/cover the full backs. Gerrard is incapable of that.
Even when the opposition pass through the middle, he seems to struggle with positioning
 
Agree....but you are pushing it too far with the Lucas comment there.

We are talking about a guy whose career assists tally is in single digits...yes?

If Lucas is the answer for anything, then i dont really want to know what the question was. I watched the motd highlights again out of morbid curiosity and i couldnt spot lucas anywhere. Its as if we played with 10 men...
 
Agree....but you are pushing it too far with the Lucas comment there.

We are talking about a guy whose career assists tally is in single digits...yes?

If Lucas is the answer for anything, then i dont really want to know what the question was. I watched the motd highlights again out of morbid curiosity and i couldnt spot lucas anywhere. Its as if we played with 10 men...
Lucas is the answer primarily because the alternative is worse.

As I said, lucas could have got more assists if he took as many set pieces as Gerrard. I stand by that. Gerrard is consistently inconsistent at them
 
The problems with the attack are obvious. We're missing two quick runners who are a constant threat across the opposition backline. Suarez used to press and harass for 90 minutes, Sturridge is similar to Torres in that he can be quiet for 80 minutes of a game, but come up with the all important goal. Missing both of them is a big hole in our ambitions. Balotelli, for all his trying to fit in and his new-found willingness to chase back, doesn't have half the workrate of Suarez and he's a completely different striker to what we've been used to. He's a forward - he'll hold it up, lay it off, but he's not going to be a threat in behind the opposition.

Like I said in the other thread. People are wondering why Coutinho and Lallana are underperforming. There's a relatively static attack playing infront of them, that's why.

If Gerrard is going to continue playing, I'd interchange him with Coutinho in the hole, let Lallana and Markovic cover the wide positions and push Sterling central when we can. Balo should only be an option, we've pretty much spunked £20m on a player who's not too dissimilar in style to Lambert, with a bit more unpredictability and technique, with only half the workrate. Play Sterling, he's scoring goals, he's a threat off the shoulder of the last defender and he'll thrive off the vision of Gerrard/Coutinho, while those two would probably perform better with a target who's always working the channels and looking to get beyond the opposition.

We need to buck the fuck up though. We've got too many "nice" players who are slight and lightweight. Look at the Chelsea and City game yesterday, it's full of big athletes who fight for everything and who don't have to constantly be on the chase. We need to discipline our play more and we need to show a bit of grit as a unit.
 
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We are very slight as a team, especially in midfield. The weight difference between our midfield and City's and Chelsea's will be considerable. It's all fine when our footballing ability and quick passing makes up for it, but when we're in poor form we'll struggle to barge our way to victory.
 
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