English Cricket/ *The Ashes*!
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[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=41229.msg1373078#msg1373078 date=1312216912]
I think it's fair to say that this Indian side looks rather average in our conditions in test match cricket (very much like we do in India).
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India won in England last time they toured mate.They also did well enough in SA against Steyn and Morkel before the world-cup.
It's not the conditions so much. It's just that the preparation has been severely lacking.
England had a two month long lead up to their tour of Australia. You compare that against what India did, and you get to see how dire that was.
India just turned up, for a three day game against Somerset and hoped everything would be alright.
Ishant Sharma and Praveen Kumar have bowled 250 overs in the last 5 weeks (That's wayyy too much for fast (Or Medium pacer in PK's case) bowlers) , where as Zaheer came in to the Lords game having bowled 13 overs against Somerset in the previous 3 months. Either extreme is bad for players, and India had almost every player falling into one extreme or the opposite. Poor planning of fixtures from BCCI's part is a major reason for the team being entirely under-cooked. The players look incapable of competing after about the second day, and it's all about conditioning.
This is not the first time this is happening. Usually they recover after the first test and get to grips. But this time England has been far too strong.
I think it's fair to say that this Indian side looks rather average in our conditions in test match cricket (very much like we do in India).
[/quote]
India won in England last time they toured mate.They also did well enough in SA against Steyn and Morkel before the world-cup.
It's not the conditions so much. It's just that the preparation has been severely lacking.
England had a two month long lead up to their tour of Australia. You compare that against what India did, and you get to see how dire that was.
India just turned up, for a three day game against Somerset and hoped everything would be alright.
Ishant Sharma and Praveen Kumar have bowled 250 overs in the last 5 weeks (That's wayyy too much for fast (Or Medium pacer in PK's case) bowlers) , where as Zaheer came in to the Lords game having bowled 13 overs against Somerset in the previous 3 months. Either extreme is bad for players, and India had almost every player falling into one extreme or the opposite. Poor planning of fixtures from BCCI's part is a major reason for the team being entirely under-cooked. The players look incapable of competing after about the second day, and it's all about conditioning.
This is not the first time this is happening. Usually they recover after the first test and get to grips. But this time England has been far too strong.
Apart from the odd series India are very well known to be poor travellers mate.
Is it simply a lack of preperation that is making quite a few of the Indian batsman look out of their depth?
England are looking miles ahead of India here, yet we could go over to india tomorrow and i'd suspect we'd get our arses handed to us by the very same Indian players.
Is it simply a lack of preperation that is making quite a few of the Indian batsman look out of their depth?
England are looking miles ahead of India here, yet we could go over to india tomorrow and i'd suspect we'd get our arses handed to us by the very same Indian players.
England have played brilliantly, and I'm delighted to see Broad show what he is capable of. He needs to push on an become a proper wicket-taking run scoring all-rounder, as he has it in him Bresnan has really opened my eyes in this test. I didn't think he had it in him TBH.
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=41229.msg1373180#msg1373180 date=1312221898]
Apart from the odd series India are very well known to be poor travellers mate.
[/quote]
You can't really say that anymore. In the past, yes.
They have Won in NZ, West Indies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and England in the last tours.
They have drawn series in Australia, and South Africa.
This is the first time they have lost two tests in a row in about three years. This will be the first time they will lose a series in the same period.
The poor travellers thing started to change under Ganguly, and they have travelled as well as if not better than the other contenders in the last three years.
The seniors will probably stick around till the ICC test championship next year. I wouldn't put money on them losing that, even though it's held in England. With Dhoni in charge, they have practically won everything they have competed in. The talent pool is not really dry beyond that either, so I don't think this will send India in a downward spiral. They have played this series without two openers who average +50, and a strike bowler in ZK. So i'd like to believe it's a one off - but you never know...
They should be back in full strength for the final two tests. It should be an interesting contest.
Apart from the odd series India are very well known to be poor travellers mate.
[/quote]
You can't really say that anymore. In the past, yes.
They have Won in NZ, West Indies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and England in the last tours.
They have drawn series in Australia, and South Africa.
This is the first time they have lost two tests in a row in about three years. This will be the first time they will lose a series in the same period.
The poor travellers thing started to change under Ganguly, and they have travelled as well as if not better than the other contenders in the last three years.
The seniors will probably stick around till the ICC test championship next year. I wouldn't put money on them losing that, even though it's held in England. With Dhoni in charge, they have practically won everything they have competed in. The talent pool is not really dry beyond that either, so I don't think this will send India in a downward spiral. They have played this series without two openers who average +50, and a strike bowler in ZK. So i'd like to believe it's a one off - but you never know...
They should be back in full strength for the final two tests. It should be an interesting contest.
This thread's gone a bit quiet.....
Congratulations to England on winning the series and becoming No.1 in the test rankings. As has been mentioned already, this side has traits of the great Australian teams of recent years. Get your foot on the neck of your opponent and keep it there! They will badly want to make it 4-0 at the Oval.
Given the depth of the squad and the amount of talented young players featuring in county cricket the future looks very bright.
Congratulations to England on winning the series and becoming No.1 in the test rankings. As has been mentioned already, this side has traits of the great Australian teams of recent years. Get your foot on the neck of your opponent and keep it there! They will badly want to make it 4-0 at the Oval.
Given the depth of the squad and the amount of talented young players featuring in county cricket the future looks very bright.
Yeah KJ is usually camped in this thread, a bit surprising he's not been about. Not.
Wonder how long we can stay top for, hopefully more than just a few weeks.
Who do we play this winter?
Who do we play this winter?
India have been utterly dominated.
There is a lot of excuses for the Indian side, but the fact is that this is a very strong England team that would have probably defeated India anyway. India needed to bring their A game to the party to compete.
Indians didn't even turn up for the third test. They came up with a defeated attitude and it showed in the result.
Fletcher is going to be in a hot seat! It was always a tough ask to replace Kirsten, who achieved everything a International coach could possibly achieve with this Indian team.
I have a feeling all is not well inside that dressing room.
Dhoni does not have the character that Ganguly had to get an underperforming team to fire up with pride and anger. He is a good captain to have when things are going well though.
India will recover from this, and hopefully they perform better than this when the Inagural Test championship comes around in 2013. That will be in England, and it will be interesting to see who takes that. They need to recover from this form slump to finish in the top 4 anyway to qualify for the Test Championship in the first place....so things are not looking good.
There is a lot of excuses for the Indian side, but the fact is that this is a very strong England team that would have probably defeated India anyway. India needed to bring their A game to the party to compete.
Indians didn't even turn up for the third test. They came up with a defeated attitude and it showed in the result.
Fletcher is going to be in a hot seat! It was always a tough ask to replace Kirsten, who achieved everything a International coach could possibly achieve with this Indian team.
I have a feeling all is not well inside that dressing room.
Dhoni does not have the character that Ganguly had to get an underperforming team to fire up with pride and anger. He is a good captain to have when things are going well though.
India will recover from this, and hopefully they perform better than this when the Inagural Test championship comes around in 2013. That will be in England, and it will be interesting to see who takes that. They need to recover from this form slump to finish in the top 4 anyway to qualify for the Test Championship in the first place....so things are not looking good.
I think the loss of Zaheer Khan at an early stage hit the Indians hard. Their other pace bowlers didn't have the ability to get seam and swing from the wicket that the England bowlers did. The commentators on Test Match Special also felt that the BCCI had sent India into this test series without sufficient preparation.
This current England team is excellent and deservedly No.1 in the world. There is strength in depth too particularly with the pace bowling. I never thought I would see an England team reach No.1 but now I confidently predict that they can dominate world cricket for at least 5 years as the team is relativley young.
2 comments this week that I found interesting; one by Alec Stewart in which he lamented India's performance and said he had hoped it would be a much closer series and the other by Michael Atherton who said how much he enjoyed England's humiliation of India. England need to cultivate more of the Atherton attitude i.e. ruthless if they want to dominate world cricket. The West Indies in the 70's and the Aussies in the 90's hugely enjoyed demolishing teams and didn't give a fuck whether or not the crowd saw a close test match or not.
This England team does seem to have a ruthless edge and that is one reason why I think that they could go on to be as feared as some of the great WI's and Aussie teams.
2 comments this week that I found interesting; one by Alec Stewart in which he lamented India's performance and said he had hoped it would be a much closer series and the other by Michael Atherton who said how much he enjoyed England's humiliation of India. England need to cultivate more of the Atherton attitude i.e. ruthless if they want to dominate world cricket. The West Indies in the 70's and the Aussies in the 90's hugely enjoyed demolishing teams and didn't give a fuck whether or not the crowd saw a close test match or not.
This England team does seem to have a ruthless edge and that is one reason why I think that they could go on to be as feared as some of the great WI's and Aussie teams.
I suspect a lot of this has to do with Andy Flower. England need to tie him into his job for a long, long time.
India just showed no fight at all! Fair enough Zaheer was a set back but for a no1 test team not to be able to score 300+ in 6 innings is just not acceptable.
The batting has been abject, the captaincy unimaginative and reactive rather than proactive, the fielding has been poor - especially from some senior players.
Without taking away from England's fantastic and ruthless performance, I think there is a lot of political infighting between the selectors, BCCI and senior players. I know some of the Indian cricket team and though not directly there has been suggestions that all is not rosy behind the doors.
The batting has been abject, the captaincy unimaginative and reactive rather than proactive, the fielding has been poor - especially from some senior players.
Without taking away from England's fantastic and ruthless performance, I think there is a lot of political infighting between the selectors, BCCI and senior players. I know some of the Indian cricket team and though not directly there has been suggestions that all is not rosy behind the doors.
