Loan Players Watch
- Thread starter King Binny
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It's sad. He has real talent. He still did okay at international level. I think the decline is a combination of two things, one potentially temporary and the other, alas, probably not.
One problem is his confidence has been wrecked by his loan moves. That can be overcome.
But the other problem is physical and it's ominously similar to the one that has blighted Andy Carroll's career - namely, since he was a kid he's put his weight on to his ankles and feet in an unusual way. In Carroll's case it's mainly how he lands on his heels when he jumps. Woodburn is just built slightly oddly. It's hard to explain, but if you look at him, you'll see he's not just slightly bow-legged (lots of players are), but also his shins sort of curve outwards starting from right above his ankles, so there's an unusual amount of weight on the outsides of the feet rather than spread across them.
Look at his injuries and you'll see the effect: ankle injury, metatarsal and foot sprains when at the Academy; goes to Sheffield United, gets an ankle injury, hardly gets a look-in when he recovers; comes back to us, suffers more foot sprains and ankle niggles; goes on loan to Oxford (which could have been great for him), does well, then breaks his foot; comes back to us to recuperate, just about recovers, then gets a carbon copy break in his other foot.
Nothing wrong with his talent, but it doesn't look good unless they can find a way (special supports inside his boots???), at this relatively late stage, to get him better balanced.
One problem is his confidence has been wrecked by his loan moves. That can be overcome.
But the other problem is physical and it's ominously similar to the one that has blighted Andy Carroll's career - namely, since he was a kid he's put his weight on to his ankles and feet in an unusual way. In Carroll's case it's mainly how he lands on his heels when he jumps. Woodburn is just built slightly oddly. It's hard to explain, but if you look at him, you'll see he's not just slightly bow-legged (lots of players are), but also his shins sort of curve outwards starting from right above his ankles, so there's an unusual amount of weight on the outsides of the feet rather than spread across them.
Look at his injuries and you'll see the effect: ankle injury, metatarsal and foot sprains when at the Academy; goes to Sheffield United, gets an ankle injury, hardly gets a look-in when he recovers; comes back to us, suffers more foot sprains and ankle niggles; goes on loan to Oxford (which could have been great for him), does well, then breaks his foot; comes back to us to recuperate, just about recovers, then gets a carbon copy break in his other foot.
Nothing wrong with his talent, but it doesn't look good unless they can find a way (special supports inside his boots???), at this relatively late stage, to get him better balanced.
That's really sad. Poor lad. Sounds like it's going to wreck his career.It's sad. He has real talent. He still did okay at international level. I think the decline is a combination of two things, one potentially temporary and the other, alas, probably not.
One problem is his confidence has been wrecked by his loan moves. That can be overcome.
But the other problem is physical and it's ominously similar to the one that has blighted Andy Carroll's career - namely, since he was a kid he's put his weight on to his ankles and feet in an unusual way. In Carroll's case it's mainly how he lands on his heels when he jumps. Woodburn is just built slightly oddly. It's hard to explain, but if you look at him, you'll see he's not just slightly bow-legged (lots of players are), but also his shins sort of curve outwards starting from right above his ankles, so there's an unusual amount of weight on the outsides of the feet rather than spread across them.
Look at his injuries and you'll see the effect: ankle injury, metatarsal and foot sprains when at the Academy; goes to Sheffield United, gets an ankle injury, hardly gets a look-in when he recovers; comes back to us, suffers more foot sprains and ankle niggles; goes on loan to Oxford (which could have been great for him), does well, then breaks his foot; comes back to us to recuperate, just about recovers, then gets a carbon copy break in his other foot.
Nothing wrong with his talent, but it doesn't look good unless they can find a way (special supports inside his boots???), at this relatively late stage, to get him better balanced.
I really hope not but it seems a bit grim at the moment. It's not something the club will discuss as it would undermine his chances, but at least they're working on ways of helping him.
Newcastle, on the other hand, have behaved scandalously. They already noted what was wrong with Carroll's technique when he was about seven, and they just shrugged their shoulders and let it happen. He lands on his heels, so the shock to his ankle, knees, lower back and shoulders is immense - and he's gone on to have injury problems in all of those areas. Someone I know was chatting to one of the old Newcastle youth coaches when we signed Carroll, and he seemed amused recalling how far back the problems went. Woodburn's problem is a physical one - there's not any 'organic' way to correct it, you can't dramatically change his body, so it's about compensating for it.Carroll, on the other hand, has a technical problem and it could have/should have been corrected when he was still a kid!
Newcastle, on the other hand, have behaved scandalously. They already noted what was wrong with Carroll's technique when he was about seven, and they just shrugged their shoulders and let it happen. He lands on his heels, so the shock to his ankle, knees, lower back and shoulders is immense - and he's gone on to have injury problems in all of those areas. Someone I know was chatting to one of the old Newcastle youth coaches when we signed Carroll, and he seemed amused recalling how far back the problems went. Woodburn's problem is a physical one - there's not any 'organic' way to correct it, you can't dramatically change his body, so it's about compensating for it.Carroll, on the other hand, has a technical problem and it could have/should have been corrected when he was still a kid!
[article]Preston North End have completed the season-long loan of Liverpool’s Dutch centre half Sepp Van Den Berg.
The 20-year-old started his career in his homeland with PEC Zwolle, making 23 appearances, after coming through the ranks – his debut coming in 2018.
He was signed by the current champions of England in the summer of 2019 and has made four appearances for the Reds in domestic cup competitions in the last two seasons.
The Netherlands youth international has been given the No.2 shirt at Deepdale and completed his move to the club on deadline day.
Speaking after putting pen to paper he said: "I’m looking forward to it. I’m happy I’m here. I’m happy hopefully I can play a lot of games, I hopefully can achieve something good this season so I’m really looking forward to the season.
"I’ve had a look around and everything looks good. The people that I’ve met have been really nice to me so I’m really looking forward and the facilities are good so hopefully I can develop here very well."
[/article]
Minamino's loan helped to cover Davies' initial fee then.
[article]Southampton Football Club is pleased to confirm the signing of Takumi Minamino on loan from Liverpool for the remainder of the season.
The attacking midfielder has completed a switch to St Mary’s on deadline day, joining Ralph Hasenhüttl’s squad for the final months of the 2020/21 campaign.
Comfortable playing both centrally and out wide, Minamino will become the latest Japan international to represent Saints, following in the footsteps of Maya Yoshida most recently.
He arrives at St Mary’s after making 31 appearances to date for Liverpool and scoring four goals, after joining the Reds in January last year from Red Bull Salzburg.
Minamino shot to prominence during his four-and-a-half years in Austria, winning the league in each season with Salzburg, as his performances proved the catalyst for a move to Anfield, where he was part of another title-winning side during his first campaign.
The 26-year-old started his career with J.League club Cerezo Osaka, where he came through the youth ranks, while also playing regularly at youth level for his country, before graduating to the senior side in 2015. Minamino has since gone on to make 26 appearances for Japan, scoring 12 times.
Southampton manager Ralph Hasenhüttl said: “I am very pleased to welcome Takumi to our squad for the rest of this season.
“He will help provide another good attacking option, and is importantly the right profile of player for us.
“This will give us some additional depth in our squad at an important time, and I am looking forward to beginning work with him on the training pitch.”[/article]
[article]Southampton Football Club is pleased to confirm the signing of Takumi Minamino on loan from Liverpool for the remainder of the season.
The attacking midfielder has completed a switch to St Mary’s on deadline day, joining Ralph Hasenhüttl’s squad for the final months of the 2020/21 campaign.
Comfortable playing both centrally and out wide, Minamino will become the latest Japan international to represent Saints, following in the footsteps of Maya Yoshida most recently.
He arrives at St Mary’s after making 31 appearances to date for Liverpool and scoring four goals, after joining the Reds in January last year from Red Bull Salzburg.
Minamino shot to prominence during his four-and-a-half years in Austria, winning the league in each season with Salzburg, as his performances proved the catalyst for a move to Anfield, where he was part of another title-winning side during his first campaign.
The 26-year-old started his career with J.League club Cerezo Osaka, where he came through the youth ranks, while also playing regularly at youth level for his country, before graduating to the senior side in 2015. Minamino has since gone on to make 26 appearances for Japan, scoring 12 times.
Southampton manager Ralph Hasenhüttl said: “I am very pleased to welcome Takumi to our squad for the rest of this season.
“He will help provide another good attacking option, and is importantly the right profile of player for us.
“This will give us some additional depth in our squad at an important time, and I am looking forward to beginning work with him on the training pitch.”[/article]
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[article]Liverpool goalkeeper Vitezslav Jaros has joined Irish Premier Division side St Patrick's Athletic on loan.
The 19-year-old, who signed a long-term contract extension with the Reds last summer, will link up with the club ahead of the start of the new Premier Division season next month.
Since moving to Merseyside from Slavia Prague in 2017, the Czech has risen through the ranks at the Academy and was a member of the FA Youth Cup-winning team in 2019.
Jaros has also been named on the first-team substitutes’ bench on four occasions, including for three Champions League fixtures this term.
He will now build up further senior experience as he spends the majority of the calendar year with St Patrick’s.
They begin the new campaign, which runs until November, with an away trip to reigning champions Shamrock Rovers on March 19.[/article]
[article]St Patrick's Athletic have completed a deal to sign Liverpool goalkeeper Vitezslav Jaros on loan.
Jaros (19) will spend the 2021 League of Ireland season with the Inchicore side.
The Czech underage international has been on the bench for Champions League games with Ajax and Midtjylland this year but is behind Caoimhin Kelleher in the pecking order.
St Pat's manager Stephen O'Donnell said: "He's a player we've been tracking for quite a while.
"He's a young, hungry keeper and has just signed a four year deal in the summer so obviously he's very highly thought of at Liverpool and he's just the type of character we want around the place. He wants to improve and is eyeing St Pat's as part of that stepping stone.
"I'm really excited, I think it's an exciting signing and it's one that will hopefully make the fans sit up and take notice, taking a player from such a prestigious club."
UK clubs are increasingly viewing the League of Ireland as a good loan option for youngsters at their club.
Liverpool's rivals Manchester City are set to send promising Irish underage midfielder Joe Hodge to Derry City.
The highly-rated English born 18-year-old is keen to play senior football and is due to travel to Derry later this week with a view to signing until July initially with the prospect of that being extended for the year if all parties are satisfied.
Former Finn Harps and Bohemians midfielder Fergal Harkin oversees Man City's loan operation.
Meanwhile, Bohemians have confirmed the signing of former Celtic and Rangers midfielder Liam Burt, subject to international clearance.
The 22-year-old Scotland Under-21 international can play on the wing or as an attacking midfielder and has also seen service on loan at Dumbarton and Alloa.[/article]
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[article]Preston North End manager Alex Neil knows Sepp van den Berg's loan is a crucial stage in the young defender's early development.
The Dutchman was the second of three deadline day temporary signings made at Deepdale, following Liam Lindsay and before Anthony Gordon.
He had found opportunities in the Liverpool first team hard to come by this season and the 19-year-old comes to North End, eager to get a regular taste of men's football.
Of the three arrivals on Monday, van den Berg is perhaps the one PNE fans know the least about.
And, in his pre-match press conference this week, Neil gave an insight into what he feels the youngster will bring and the challenge he will face during his stay in Lancashire.
"I think he made his debut in Holland when he was about 16 so he was really young," said Neil. "He played 20 games in Holland's top league as a kid, and Liverpool signed him.
"He worked with Gary O'Neil (LFC under-23 coach) - who I had as a player (at Norwich) - and that's really how I got on to Sepp, Gary phoned me and spoke to me about him.
"He's quick, comfortable on the ball but like any young defender he needs experience and first-team exposure.
"So, I think sometimes when you get academy-level centre-backs, they're used to playing nice, pretty football and are quite quick, they can read the game.
"It will be interesting to see when that first ball turns above his head and there's somebody that's six-foot-three flinging him an elbow across his face - how he is going to react to that.
"Because that is the reality of the Championship, dependent on who you play and that's the the reason why young centre-backs from the Premier League get put out on loan - to sample if they sink or swim.
"So that'll be a big test for Sepp, but he's certainly got the mentality and attributes to hopefully do well."
Neil - like the supporters - is excited by the club's January recruits but also very keen to stress the fact some patience will be needed.
Having lost stalwarts of his side for the last three-years in Ben Davies, Darnell Fisher and Ben Pearson, the Scot does not want to promise the world from his new signings - despite his belief in them.
"I think time will tell, it's difficult to say," said Neil, when asked if they are ready right now. "What I don't want to do is heap any pressure on these lads in terms of saying 'they'll do this and that'
"Because as we've found out in the Championship, there is huge expectancy on some players.
"We brought in Lukas Nmecha who was arguably the best forward in the country, in his age group; it's not an easy league.
"We will see how the lads get on, the one thing they do have is huge potential but as we know potential can take a bit of time to fulfill.
"We've got guys who look like very good players but they haven't done it (in the Championship) and they certainly haven't done it here, so the task and onus is on them to go and show they can do it, step up to the plate and get it done."[/article]
The Dutchman was the second of three deadline day temporary signings made at Deepdale, following Liam Lindsay and before Anthony Gordon.
He had found opportunities in the Liverpool first team hard to come by this season and the 19-year-old comes to North End, eager to get a regular taste of men's football.
Of the three arrivals on Monday, van den Berg is perhaps the one PNE fans know the least about.
And, in his pre-match press conference this week, Neil gave an insight into what he feels the youngster will bring and the challenge he will face during his stay in Lancashire.
"I think he made his debut in Holland when he was about 16 so he was really young," said Neil. "He played 20 games in Holland's top league as a kid, and Liverpool signed him.
"He worked with Gary O'Neil (LFC under-23 coach) - who I had as a player (at Norwich) - and that's really how I got on to Sepp, Gary phoned me and spoke to me about him.
"He's quick, comfortable on the ball but like any young defender he needs experience and first-team exposure.
"So, I think sometimes when you get academy-level centre-backs, they're used to playing nice, pretty football and are quite quick, they can read the game.
"It will be interesting to see when that first ball turns above his head and there's somebody that's six-foot-three flinging him an elbow across his face - how he is going to react to that.
"Because that is the reality of the Championship, dependent on who you play and that's the the reason why young centre-backs from the Premier League get put out on loan - to sample if they sink or swim.
"So that'll be a big test for Sepp, but he's certainly got the mentality and attributes to hopefully do well."
Neil - like the supporters - is excited by the club's January recruits but also very keen to stress the fact some patience will be needed.
Having lost stalwarts of his side for the last three-years in Ben Davies, Darnell Fisher and Ben Pearson, the Scot does not want to promise the world from his new signings - despite his belief in them.
"I think time will tell, it's difficult to say," said Neil, when asked if they are ready right now. "What I don't want to do is heap any pressure on these lads in terms of saying 'they'll do this and that'
"Because as we've found out in the Championship, there is huge expectancy on some players.
"We brought in Lukas Nmecha who was arguably the best forward in the country, in his age group; it's not an easy league.
"We will see how the lads get on, the one thing they do have is huge potential but as we know potential can take a bit of time to fulfill.
"We've got guys who look like very good players but they haven't done it (in the Championship) and they certainly haven't done it here, so the task and onus is on them to go and show they can do it, step up to the plate and get it done."[/article]
Its really more about the rhythm of regular games and the discipline required to play senior football. If he cant excel at that level he has no business at Liverpool, but there are hard lessons for any young player stepping up to play against senior pros no matter the league.
Starts for Minamino, Wilson, Ojo, Elliot and Millar
van den Berg on the bench
Minamino with a nice touch and goal.
[article]Liverpool's battle with Fulham over compensation for Harvey Elliott will be heard by a tribunal on Tuesday.
Elliott was not a professional player when he moved to Anfield due to his age, with Fulham demanding around £8million for the player. Liverpool claim they are prepared to spend £750,000, says the Daily Mail.
Teams who sign footballers aged under 24 must pay a compensation fee if they secure the player while he is not on professional terms or once his contract comes to an end.
Elliott has made nine senior appearances for Jurgen Klopp's side since his arrival in Merseyside, with eight of them coming last season.
The 17-year-old made six cup appearances last term and appeared twice in the Reds' Premier League title-winning season.
The winger was sent on loan to Championship side Blackburn for this season.[/article]
Elliott was not a professional player when he moved to Anfield due to his age, with Fulham demanding around £8million for the player. Liverpool claim they are prepared to spend £750,000, says the Daily Mail.
Teams who sign footballers aged under 24 must pay a compensation fee if they secure the player while he is not on professional terms or once his contract comes to an end.
Elliott has made nine senior appearances for Jurgen Klopp's side since his arrival in Merseyside, with eight of them coming last season.
The 17-year-old made six cup appearances last term and appeared twice in the Reds' Premier League title-winning season.
The winger was sent on loan to Championship side Blackburn for this season.[/article]
It's scandalous that the Harvey Elliott tribunal has been allowed to drag on for so long. Fulham are trying to get £10m. That's a chunk of our summer spending. A tribunal should make a decision on a youth player's price within about a month of the transfer. What else needs to happen? The problem when it drags on for over a year (almost two in this case) is that the player's price is clearly influenced by his subsequent progress. And that progress is more down to us and the player than it is Fulham. The buying club of a youth player is taking a gamble, regardless of how highly rated the kid is. You can't retrospectively hike up his price because he's done well after leaving - that's insane! We've just bought a tried and tested 25 year old CB for about £1m. If this tribunal rates the Elliott when we signed him as worth more than that they need investigating.
Wilson provided Ojo with the assist.
@King Binny Thanks for all these updates - it's great to see our on-loan players doing well.
My pleasure, mate. Yeah, at least it'll help boast their valuation.
Elliott - 22 appearances (avg 80 mins per game), 4 goals, 8 assists (1 big chance missed)
Wilson - 21 appearances (avg 82 mins per game), 3 goals, 7 assists (3 big chances missed)
Ojo - 28 appearances (avg 71 mins per game), 5 goals, 6 assists (1 big chance missed)
Millar - 8 appearances (avg 79 mins per game), 1 goal, 2 assists (2 big chances missed)
Lewis - 5 appearances (avg 24 mins per game), 1 goal
Grujic - 10 appearances (avg 27 mins per game)
Awoniyi - 18 appearances (avg 67 mins per game), 5 goals, 2 assists (6 big chances missed)
Grabara - 14 appearances (avg 90 mins per game), 4 clean sheets, 11 goals conceded (0.9 goals conceded per game; 1 error leading to goal), 1.8 saves per game (66%)
Karius - 1 appearance (21 mins)
Good ball from Wilson and calm finishing from Ojo. @1:05
Grujic, in a way too. For all the money Hertha Berlin were splashing, it's a "pity" they didn't sign him upright. Can't see us fetching the fee we were looking for back then.
*Lewis made a good start but had to build up his fitness during a time when Plymouth are going through a 5 match unbeaten run (11 pts from 15).
Millar with another assist yesterday
@0.49
@0.49
Same thing happened with Ings, if I recall. Took ages to settle and I think we paid about 8m?
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