• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Our rivals this season

Status
Not open for further replies.

rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Since there is not much news on our transfer front, let's take a look around at our closest rivals (top-6). I think by all indications Leicester won't be as good as last season and they'll do well to finish 7th. Everton perhaps could also be in the conversation, but they have their own thread. Let's take them in alphabetical order:

Arsenal
Arsenal-FC.png

Head coach:
Mikel Arteta
Major signings: CB Gabriel (£28M), CB Saliba (returned from loan), RW Willian (free).
Potential signings: CM Aouar, DM Thomas Partey
Major departures: none so far, but Guenduzi, Bellerin, Ozil, GK Martinez, Sokratis, Lacazette and Toreira may all still leave.

After hitting rock bottom last season, they finally seem to be going in the right direction. Arteta has refashioned Arsenal into a counter-attacking side, with less room for self-expression by players, but far more resiliency, appetite for hard work and better team ethos. Adaptation of new centre-backs Gabriel and Saliba will be key, if they prove to be good enough to play as a defensive pair (together or with one of the existing CBs), perhaps Arteta will be able to start nudging the balance more towards the attack and possession football. Their transfers and potential additions all seem on point, even though it may be a risk in the long-term to give huge contracts to the 30+ pair Willian and Aubameyang (in addition to being saddled with Ozil and Lacazette's contracs), but future does look bright with talents like Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah and Saliba. There are too many changes and uncertainties to challenge for big trophies this season (and let's not forget this will be Arteta's first full season as a manager ever, so he's bound to make mistakes), but they will improve enough to keep Troopz, DT and others generally happy and entertained.

My Prediction: 5th place. They won't go through the season evenly; will endure barren spells as well as good runs of form.

Chelsea
256x256bb.jpg

Head coach: Frank Lampard
Major signings: AM Havertz (£72M), CF Werner (£48M), LB Chilwell (£45M), RW Ziyech (£36M), CB Thiago Silva (free).
Potential signings: GK Mendy, DM Rice.
Major departures: Willian, Pedro, potentially also Kepa, Barkley, Kante, Jorginho, Alonso, Emerson, Christensten and Tomori.

Chelsea are in the middle of a major overhaul both in terms of the playing personnel and system and style of play, all presided by a relatively inexperienced manager. While all of their major signings are of undoubted quality, if I was a Chelsea fan I would wonder why not do things a little more gradually, building on the existing foundations rather than ripping most of the team apart and starting anew. Lampard has surpassed expectations last season, but is it enough give him a carte-blanche to rebuild a team fully in his image? Sure, replacing Batshuayi with Werner is a no-brainer if you can afford it, but the rumours of Kante being replaced by Declan Rice, the nearly £50M LB Chilwell in place of very serviceable (and title-winning) Marcos Alonso – this smacks of manager who is being indulged to recruit his people just for the sake of it, regardless of whether it objectively constitutes an improvement.

Havertz is an interesting case – he is a player I've long followed and have been infatuated by, but I have to say I'm doubtful on whether Lampard actually has any idea of what to do with him. Havertz is a luxury-grade system player; in the hands of a very system-oriented coach, someone like Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino, Bielsa or Nagelsmann, his marvelous versatility, stamina and tactical malleability can be used to fuse elements of several roles at once, seamlessly shifting from being a facilitator and water-carrier to creator and finisher. He's a lot less exciting or effective if you just judge him purely as a winger or striker or midfielder – and at this point I'm not sure whether Lampard's system is quite sophisticated enough to make the best use of his talents. If not, this could be akin to using a state-of-the-art precision tool as a nail-hammer.

My prediction for Chelsea is that all that turbulence around the new signings coupled with pressure to make them work will prove too much for Frank. He'll struggle to make a cohesive whole out of all the new parts and will be one of the first managerial casualties of this season.

==============
I'm going to skip Man City for now, because I don't have a clear sense of them at this point. I feel that after Lyon the faith in Guardiola got shaken somewhat among the players, but they could respond in a number of ways, positive or negative.
==============

Manchester United
manchester-united-569431.png

Manager: Ole-Gunnar Solskjaer
Major signings: GK Henderson (return from loan), AM De Beek (£35M)
Potential signings: RW Sancho, LB Regulion
Major departures: none

Credit to Solskjaer – after presiding over a long period of inconsistency he has worked out a solid basic structure for his team and then started smartly upgrading key positions in that system. Bruno Fernandes was a huge and possibly era-defining upgrade on Lingard/Pereira, young Greenwood usurped Daniel James's spot on the right wing and the pairing of Pogba and Matic in the middle has been found to provide the optimal balance. United went unbeaten in the league from February till the end of the season with 9 wins and 5 draws, which would put them on pace for 87 points over the course of a full season. The defense is solid even without relying on a back 3 and their front 3 has scored more than ours last season. So could they challenge for title?

I think United are the closest to us and Man City in terms of squad quality and having a settled system. There are a few question marks:
– what will happen when the league inevitably adjusts to United's system? They were a bit under the radar for the majority of their good run and many teams played into their hands by allowing them to play on the counter.
– will the penalties dry up?
– how will the Maguire situation affect everyone?
– will Solskjaer be able to continue solving various problems as they arise without title-winning experience at the top level?

I think United will have a strong season with or without Sancho. De Beek adds quality and variety to the attack and Henderson will either overtake De Gea or push him to return to the world-class levels. My prediction is 3rd or possibly even 2nd place.

Spurs
740931_a91b909250ca4e7ea15925e5d254dbcd~mv2.webp

Manager: the Special One
Major signings: RB Doherty (£18M), CM Hojbjerg (£18M)
Potential signings: in the market for a back-up striker and a CB
Major departures: Vertonghen, potentially Ndombele, Aurier and Danny Rose

I think pundits and most fans are seriously underestimating Spurs. Mourinho's "2nd season effect" has been evident across every team and every league he's coached: league titles were won in his 2nd season with Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real, Chelsea again and he only came 2nd once with a fairly dreadful United team. Another point to consider is that if season started on the day Mourinho took the Spurs job, their results would have placed them 4th in the table. Finally, consider Spurs' final league table positions in the last 5 years: 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th – they've only finished outside of the top 4 once and yet most people are not giving them a chance.

I think a big reason why Jose took this job was because the composition of the squad really suits him – in Kane he has the kind of centre-forward he has always relied on and an interchangeable array of speedy goalscoring attackers around the big striker is characteristic of his best teams. Heung-min Son is a stereotypically perfect Mourinho winger/striker and the likes of Lucas Moura, Bergwijn and Lamela are not far behind – they are the kind of players who don't necessarily need an attacking system to create goals and chances, they like to improvise and hurt opponents on the counter. I think Doherty will prove to be a brilliant signing and a huge upgrade on the hapless Aurier and Hojbjerg should make the midfield stronger. The key to Spurs' season will be Daniel Levy conjuring up something to find a quality back-up for Kane near the deadline day and Mourinho finding his own magic touch to turn around Dele Alli's career. He will also need to shore up the leaky defense – it's kind of his speciality, so I would bet on him solving this problem.

My prediction is that Spurs will make the top 4 rather easily, but probably won't go higher than that due to some squad limitations and focus on the Europa League.
 
Last edited:
They’ll be a shit version of city. Decent going forward but will crumble like a biscuit at the back.
 
They’ll be a shit version of city. Decent going forward but will crumble like a biscuit at the back.

Don't quite see it this way, City is a clear system that suffers from specific drawbacks and Pep's blind spots. With Chelsea I recon there might not be a system at all.

BTW if Lampard does succeed in these circumstances, then Chelsea will have found their Zidane. But I would not bet on it.
 
I think Arsenal could win the league - it just depends on quickly the two young CBs can settle.

That's a big shout.

They've managed to get a few results against the big teams - games they've struggled with for a long time - but just don't seem them having enough quality over the course of a season to sustain a proper challenge.

If Auba gets injured, they'll drop off quick.
 
I think Arsenal could win the league - it just depends on quickly the two young CBs can settle.

I dont see it, they have some genuinely exciting young players coming through but they lack the experienced spine to graft those young talents onto.

Chelsea on the other hand I can see as a major threat to win the title.
 
That's a big shout.

They've managed to get a few results against the big teams - games they've struggled with for a long time - but just don't seem them having enough quality over the course of a season to sustain a proper challenge.

If Auba gets injured, they'll drop off quick.

You're right - I should have an asterix:
* If Auba stays healthy.

I just think Arteta has clearly improved players - and there's a mix of experience and lots of extremely talented youth coming in.
I think they're far far closer than people realize. Managers make a difference! ;-)
 
Chelsea have bought well:

  • Lampard will struggle tactically still, but will get over the line in a lot of games because of the sheer quality of his attack
  • They will take points off the big boys. That's where your big players always seem to turn up, that's when you will see them at their best and it will be crucial in the title race, either directly from them challenging, or from them upsetting things at the top in head to heads.
With those additions to a squad that could already take points off anyone, they will be a threat.
 
That game against us at the end of last season was an aberration. I wouldn't really count on that again. Though, I was worried by our performance against them in the Charity Shield.

They're still fucking miles off us or City, though.
 
That game against us at the end of last season was an aberration. I wouldn't really count on that again. Though, I was worried by our performance against them in the Charity Shield.

They're still fucking miles off us or City, though.

If we are the benchmark and they done well against us in the last two games then it suggests they are at the very least closing the gap. I dont see them as potential winners but top 4 isnt out of the question
 
If we are the benchmark and they done well against us in the last two games then it suggests they are at the very least closing the gap. I dont see them as potential winners but top 4 isnt out of the question
Hey, we were always good at one off games against top 4 teams during our barren run. Couldn’t get near the league title, in and out of the top 4 as well. Hoping it might be the case with Chelsea.
 
True but weve battered Arsenal senseless in the last few years. For them to start taking points off top teams is a definite sign of progress from them
 
City - still think that they will be the major rivals for the title, though I do agree there's a chance that the squad might have lost their trust in Pep a bit. I also think the exit of Fernandinho and Silva as leaders in the dressing room will hurt them. If they sign Koulibaly, that should really help them though.

United - United unfortunately will probably have the best attack in the league. Rashford and Martial have taken a step to the next level, Greenwood looks like a sensational talent. Bruno is a very good playmaker (albeit a bit overrated). I think van de Beek will be a good signing, and if they get Sancho, I can see them having the sort of season we had in 13/14. There's a chance they'll even muster up a title challenge, but you'd hope that their average defence and their average manager will be their undoing.

Spurs - They seem to be written off completely, but they've made a couple of smart under the radar signings. I think Mourinho will have them back contending for top 4, provided Kane stays fit.

Arsenal - Agree that they will be inconsistent, but a lot better than over the past few years. Top 4 contention for sure, but can't see them mounting a title challenge.

Chelsea - Massive task for Frank to integrate all those signings. I just can't see it happening this year.

I can't see us romping to the title like last season, but I do think there's a very good chance we win it. If we'd signed Werner, I think we'd have been clear favourites. That said, as long as Alisson, VVD, Trent and the front 3 remain fit throughout, we will mount a very good title defence. My only concern is that the front 3 is clearly losing effectiveness of late, and we haven't signed anyone to freshen the attack. Klopp will need to find a solution tactically, and hope that the likes of Minamino, Jones and Shaqiri contribute in a big way.
 
I guess you didn't read it.
I didn’t and I was being facetious anyway due to my disdain for Spurs and Mourinho. Apologies.

it’s a good write up and persuasive enough, but I still think they’re destined for 5th-7th or thereabouts. As much as Mourinho’s second season record is impressive, I can’t bracket the feeling that to judge him on his past achievements and contextual resources fails to map across to his current impact or inherited squad at Spurs.

I might well be blinded by my animosity towards him but Spurs were a turgid shit show last season and lack the underlying momentum of either Chelsea, Utd, Wolves or Arsenal right now, whilst us and City are miles ahead.
 
Last edited:
If we were to consider Spurs at this point, we should also be looking at Everton. Ancelotti had bought pretty well and players he knows quite well too. James was with him at Madrid and Allan was also his player at Napoli. Doucoure is also a very good midfielder. Ancelotti will organise them well. I am far more concerned over them than I am over United this season. A great manager can do wonders for the players and the team, and Ancelotti is not standing 3rd behind Klopp and Guardiola. He will make them better, much better than what Mourinho could do with Spurs.
 
United - United unfortunately will probably have the best attack in the league. Rashford and Martial have taken a step to the next level, Greenwood looks like a sensational talent. Bruno is a very good playmaker (albeit a bit overrated). I think van de Beek will be a good signing, and if they get Sancho, I can see them having the sort of season we had in 13/14. There's a chance they'll even muster up a title challenge, but you'd hope that their average defence and their average manager will be their undoing.

I have to question Martial – he is a talent, but does he have the mentality of a big-club #9? So far no evidence of that; no wonder Mourinho didn't trust him. The good thing about Van de Beek is that he gives Ole an option of playing a "diamond," which only requires 2 strikers, so they can keep producing when one of the 3 is not available or off form. Best attack in the league though? It's probably still City's.
 
That game against us at the end of last season was an aberration. I wouldn't really count on that again. Though, I was worried by our performance against them in the Charity Shield.

They're still fucking miles off us or City, though.

More like light years. I thought we did ok at Wembley. Having just Alexander-Arnold play would’ve upped our game 20%.

If we are the benchmark and they done well against us in the last two games then it suggests they are at the very least closing the gap. I dont see them as potential winners but top 4 isnt out of the question

They got results but didn’t do well. They beat us because of 2 massive mistakes by our most consistent performers then spent 80% of the game without the ball. They needed pens to beat us at Wembley.
 
If we were to consider Spurs at this point, we should also be looking at Everton. Ancelotti had bought pretty well and players he knows quite well too. James was with him at Madrid and Allan was also his player at Napoli. Doucoure is also a very good midfielder. Ancelotti will organise them well. I am far more concerned over them than I am over United this season. A great manager can do wonders for the players and the team, and Ancelotti is not standing 3rd behind Klopp and Guardiola. He will make them better, much better than what Mourinho could do with Spurs.

I think you're underestimating Mourinho (possibly due to your evident dislike for the man), but as for Everton and Ancelotti, as impressive as the midfield of Allan, Doucoure and James looks on paper, I think it will be quite a while before all 3 are actually fit and ready to perform at their top capacity. James played in only 14 games in all competitions for Real Madrid last season and will surely need at least a few months to adapt to the pace and physicality of the Premier League. Allan has also endured an injury-plagued season at Napoli and will need to recover his best form from 2 seasons ago under Ancelotti in addition to adapting to the new country and league. They also have the talented DM Jean-Philippe Gbamin who missed the entire last season with an injury and probably won't be fit until winter. Doucoure is the only new midfielder who should be able to contribute right away, but it might be not until the 2nd half of the season or even next season before Everton's midfield settles into shape. Until then, Everton fans will have to make do with watching Sigurdsson and Tom Davies plod around the pitch again.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom