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Pre Match: Atletico Madrid (a) CL - Tuesday 20:00

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20 months left on his contract. We're in a bit of a shite situation in regards to getting a decent fee for him.
If that is what Klopp wants to do obviously, but it feels a likely that he'll be off.
 
I have given up on Keita as a reliable member of the squad long ago and as such had very low expectations coming into this season, which is why every positive thing he did so far - his 2 goals, a timely strong performance against Watford on the back of playing 3 times in 7 days for his country, some unspectacular but useful water-carrier performances earlier in the season - all come as a bonus. Tactically he seems to be well-suited to the more attacking RCM role that has become a feature of this season’s team and you could argue that even with all his flaws, he offers something in that position that can be useful over the course of the season, particularly against weaker opponents.

And I still have a flicker of hope that with Klopp’s help he could use what happened yesterday as a way to address his flaws and improve as a player. If you think about it positively, it could be a perfect learning experience - playing pretty well in a hostile atmosphere while being stretched near his endurance limits and scoring a huge European goal, but then being beaten cleanly twice with both mistakes clinically punished with a goal and being taken off at half-time. Sometimes naturally supremely talented people need this kind of experience for the penny to drop to understand the limits of their own talent. I’m curious to see how Keita will react in the next games - if there is still any hope of genuine improvement from him, I’m sure Klopp will find the right words.
 
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If it we go with Henderson and Fabs, then hell yes we start Volley Keita
Last night he did nothing wrong as such. Could have been better, but for me he was less of a liability than Milner. think that we forget just how good ALT are on the ball. Even with ten men they put us under pressure
Eh? He was fucking rubbish and done far too easily for both goals. Wonderful volley mind.
 
I don't get how some people can't see the obvious flaws in Keita. He's obviously got a certain amount of skill but his concentration doesn't exist.
He’s not good enough at all and nowhere near the level we thought we were spending 60m to get.
 
I have given up on Keita as a reliable member of the squad long ago and as such had very low expectations coming into this season, which is why every positive thing he did so far - his 2 goals, a timely strong performance against Watford on the back of playing 3 times in 7 days for his country, some unspectacular but useful water-carrier performances earlier in the season - all come as a bonus. Tactically he seems to be well-suited to the more attacking RCM role that has become a feature of this season’s team and you could argue that even with all his flaws, he offers something in that position that can be useful over the course of the season, particularly against weaker opponents.

And I still have a flicker of hope that with Klopp’s help he could use what happened yesterday as a way to address his flaws and improve as a player. If you think about it positively, it could be a perfect learning experience - playing pretty well in a hostile atmosphere while being stretched near his endurance limits and scoring a huge European goal, but then being beaten cleanly twice with both mistakes clinically punished with a goal and being taken off at half-time. Sometimes naturally supremely talented people need this kind of experience for the penny to drop to understand the limits of their own talent. I’m curious to see how Keita will react in the next games - if there is still any hope of genuine improvement from him, I’m sure Klopp will find the right words.
To an extent (and only an extent) one has to realise that yesterday he was beaten by Joao Felix and Griezmann. Not exactly your average players.

It's clear Naby has some supreme technical skills and he is capable of excellent defensive stats too, however I am seriously beginning to doubt that he will ever transfer that ability from the BL to a Klopp team in the PL. If so that is really disappointing because the BL player was awesome.
 
To an extent (and only an extent) one has to realise that yesterday he was beaten by Joao Felix and Griezmann. Not exactly your average players.

It's clear Naby has some supreme technical skills and he is capable of excellent defensive stats too, however I am seriously beginning to doubt that he will ever transfer that ability from the BL to a Klopp team in the PL. If so that is really disappointing because the BL player was awesome.

Lemar for the 1st one. Looked back to his best after poor first couple of seasons at Atletico.
 
If it we go with Henderson and Fabs, then hell yes we start Volley Keita
Last night he did nothing wrong as such. Could have been better, but for me he was less of a liability than Milner. think that we forget just how good ALT are on the ball. Even with ten men they put us under pressure

Did nothing wrong..? Wow. Just wow.

Last night was his entire LFC career encapsulated into 45 - not 90 - minutes... One glorious moment of wonderful skill to make us all salivate, followed by 30 minutes of almost uninterrupted ineptitude, failing to complete the most basic of tasks in defending the inevitable swarm of Madrid attacks.

He unquestionably has the technical ability to be superb. But he doesn't appear to possess the discipline or concentration to do what Jurgen demands of his midfielders. He's been here too long to still not get it... He's not consistently good enough for us.
 
Did nothing wrong..? Wow. Just wow.

Last night was his entire LFC career encapsulated into 45 - not 90 - minutes... One glorious moment of wonderful skill to make us all salivate, followed by 30 minutes of almost uninterrupted ineptitude, failing to complete the most basic of tasks in defending the inevitable swarm of Madrid attacks.

He unquestionably has the technical ability to be superb. But he doesn't appear to possess the discipline or concentration to do what Jurgen demands of his midfielders. He's been here too long to still not get it... He's not consistently good enough for us.

And has I asked was Milner any better..?

I think that overall Alt are a lot most skilled that what you give them credit for so much so that even VVD was struglling at times, even when they went down to ten men we struggled. Why do you think that TAA was replace by Gomez..?
Keita may not be up to this level of competition, but from what I saw yesterday niether was Milner or TAA to name but two
 
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Milner is still twice the player Keita is because he gives free kicks away, not despite them. He's clever, he's sly, he knows when to do it. Keita should have done it last night but I'm afraid he's just really fucking dense.
 
Milner is still twice the player Keita is because he gives free kicks away, not despite them. He's clever, he's sly, he knows when to do it. Keita should have done it last night but I'm afraid he's just really fucking dense.
Yea, if Keita had fouled twice we may well not have conceded those two goals
 
And has I asked was Milner any better..?

I think that overall Alt are a lot most skilled that what you give them credit for so much so that even VVD was struglling at times, even when they went down to ten men we struggled. Why do you think that TAA was replace by Gomez..?
Keita may not be up to this level of competition, but from what I saw yesterday niether was Milner or TAA to name but two

What Woland said.

If you can't tell that Milly is just a better, more savy footballer than Naby, I don't know what to tell you...
 
To an extent (and only an extent) one has to realise that yesterday he was beaten by Joao Felix and Griezmann. Not exactly your average players.

It's clear Naby has some supreme technical skills and he is capable of excellent defensive stats too, however I am seriously beginning to doubt that he will ever transfer that ability from the BL to a Klopp team in the PL. If so that is really disappointing because the BL player was awesome.

More than those two events which I agree were from supremely technical players, it was his overall inability to contribute to stemming the tide that pissed me off. To be fair, neither did the other midfielders but they all have credit in the bank, Naby doesn't.

In the premier league, he is not suitable for a top 4 team. He is more like a midfielder for an 8-15 placed team. He is very good when he is allowed to play on his own terms - given space, defend when he wants to, can create MOTD moments once every month, etc. Might be one of the reasons why his Bundesliga stats were so good as attackers are allowed a lot more space there and a lot more freedom to do their stuff. But when you have to fight for the ball, stand up, and be counted, he is the last person I want on the pitch. The exact opposite of Milner and Gini.
 
And Milner was any better?... At le4ast Keita was trying not to give away free kicks, and carried a greater goal threat going forward than Milner

Ah the ‘it’s ok to be shit because there are others that are shit’ argument.

Shit argument.

Edit - Milner is not shit
 
Ah the ‘it’s ok to be shit because there are others that are shit’ argument.

Shit argument.

Edit - Milner is not shit

Yesterday Milner was no better than Keita, Other days he may well be better, but Yesterday...No

And Yes If you are pointing figers at someone who is playing shit, then you have to point the finger at everyone who is playing shit...

Yesterday with how Alt was playing Milner looked more likey to give away a free kick or penalty than Keita. Plus Keita will take on a player driving into the box and could draw a free kick of penaly for us and creat more chance than Milner.

You see their penalty claim...? how the player angled his run to run accross Jota?
I believe Milner would be cuagth out by that more easier than Keita
Hence why I wanted klopp to replace Milner as oppose to Keita

Another thing I have always believed that when we play both Henderson and Milner in midfield; together we create less chances for our front three
 
Yesterday Milner was no better than Keita, Other days he may well be better, but Yesterday...No

And Yes If you are pointing figers at someone who is playing shit, then you have to point the finger at everyone who is playing shit...

Yesterday with how Alt was playing Milner looked more likey to give away a free kick or penalty than Keita. Plus Keita will take on a player driving into the box and could draw a free kick of penaly for us and creat more chance than Milner.

You see their penalty claim...? how the player angled his run to run accross Jota?
I believe Milner would be cuagth out by that more easier than Keita
Hence why I wanted klopp to replace Milner as oppose to Keita

Another thing I have always believed that when we play both Henderson and Milner in midfield; together we create less chances for our front three

Ok. Let’s look at everyone you pointed out was playing shit.

Why didn’t you mention Bobby was quiet? What about Jota being a clumsy arse and nearly giving a penalty away when the very thing happened to him the other end?
What about VVD getting turned for their 2nd?
Or Robbo losing the ball?
Hendo wasn’t that effective in DM when compared to Fabs.

Nope you just singled out Milner and actually said Keita did nothing wrong.
 
Milner is still twice the player Keita is because he gives free kicks away, not despite them. He's clever, he's sly, he knows when to do it. Keita should have done it last night but I'm afraid he's just really fucking dense.
He's probably not dense, he just has dementia.
 
Yesterday Milner was no better than Keita, Other days he may well be better, but Yesterday...No

And Yes If you are pointing figers at someone who is playing shit, then you have to point the finger at everyone who is playing shit...

Yesterday with how Alt was playing Milner looked more likey to give away a free kick or penalty than Keita. Plus Keita will take on a player driving into the box and could draw a free kick of penaly for us and creat more chance than Milner.

You see their penalty claim...? how the player angled his run to run accross Jota?
I believe Milner would be cuagth out by that more easier than Keita
Hence why I wanted klopp to replace Milner as oppose to Keita

Another thing I have always believed that when we play both Henderson and Milner in midfield; together we create less chances for our front three

Milner was a free signing, who is now 35 years old and has made an immense contribution to the growth of the club in the last few years. He has significant credit in the bank.

You will find that posters here take into account the history of players' performance before criticizing them. They are not that reactionary that they will throw players under the bus after one poor performance. They won't turn on Salah or VVD or Allison or Milner or TAA if they perform poorly for 3 games. Even if they criticize it will be more affectionate criticism. Mainly because they have a body of contribution they can point to and folks here recognize that.

Naby Keita cost us 50 million, is now 26 years old (at least according to his birth certificate, copyright @Rosco), and has failed to live up to his billing over the last few years. He has zero credit left in the bank and will get pelters for bad performances.

With Keita, it is a bit worse because he is a talented footballer. The one thing which pisses of posters here and LFC fans, in general, are talented players who don't deliver despite being given chances after chances, because of a lack of effort or concentration or a spine in general. Those tend to get the worst criticism. If Keita was a talentless hack, he would not have received that much criticism. The object of our ire would have been Klopp and Edwards for signing him which again will be more muted ire because they have incredible credit in the bank.

I am surprised I am having to write this out.
 
The debate is between Keita, who we hoped would be our shit hot, up and coming midfield star, and James Milner at 35. Lets set aside whether we agree with Klopp on how they saw the game yesterday, and just acknowledge that this is what we are talking about. Set aside what they've done, and think about where they are at in their careers.

It's as much a compliment to Milner as it underscores why Keita hasn't worked out. If we still had Wijnaldum, Milner may not have started, but Keita wouldn't have finished the game either way with a similar performance.
 
Ok. Let’s look at everyone you pointed out was playing shit.

Why didn’t you mention Bobby was quiet? What about Jota being a clumsy arse and nearly giving a penalty away when the very thing happened to him the other end?
What about VVD getting turned for their 2nd?
Or Robbo losing the ball?
Hendo wasn’t that effective in DM when compared to Fabs.

Nope you just singled out Milner and actually said Keita did nothing wrong.

Mention both TAA and VVD, earlier, and Yes I could have named both Robbo and Mane, But we were talking Milner and Keita and which one of them should have been subbed.
Also eluded to how good Alt were...
Their press, passing and attack
 
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Milner was a free signing, who is now 35 years old and has made an immense contribution to the growth of the club in the last few years. He has significant credit in the bank.

You will find that posters here take into account the history of players' performance before criticizing them. They are not that reactionary that they will throw players under the bus after one poor performance. They won't turn on Salah or VVD or Allison or Milner or TAA if they perform poorly for 3 games. Even if they criticize it will be more affectionate criticism. Mainly because they have a body of contribution they can point to and folks here recognize that.

Naby Keita cost us 50 million, is now 26 years old (at least according to his birth certificate, copyright @Rosco), and has failed to live up to his billing over the last few years. He has zero credit left in the bank and will get pelters for bad performances.

With Keita, it is a bit worse because he is a talented footballer. The one thing which pisses of posters here and LFC fans, in general, are talented players who don't deliver despite being given chances after chances, because of a lack of effort or concentration or a spine in general. Those tend to get the worst criticism. If Keita was a talentless hack, he would not have received that much criticism. The object of our ire would have been Klopp and Edwards for signing him which again will be more muted ire because they have incredible credit in the bank.

I am surprised I am having to write this out.

I am not attacking Milner. This is about the Alt Madrid game. This one game and imo he was the one that need to be subbed
 
There's a whole myriad of opinions in regards to Milner. Personally, in that cauldron, I was fucking glad he was there. Did the cute little things that often go unnoticed. He dug in and fought. He showed a steely, hard-edged 'fuck you' attitude that I thought helped the others out and ultimately kept them calm. That's because he's a seasoned and consummate professional. It takes more than just silky skills and sublime talent to win games. Mentality. Milner has that in spades and showed it last night.
 
Keita has to start on Sunday; let him play the first 15 minutes, score a couple of 30 yard volleys, then take him off before he can do any damage at the other end
 
I am not attacking Milner. This is about the Alt Madrid game. This one game and imo he was the one that need to be subbed

Not sure if I am missing something here, but they were both subbed, weren't they? Is it that important which one was subbed first?
 
Not sure if I am missing something here, but they were both subbed, weren't they? Is it that important which one was subbed first?
I think yes. It was important who was subbed first. I believe that with Keita we had would create more chances than with Milner.
But If others disagree it is their right to do so
 
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