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The squad 2 years from now

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I actually think we will be ok, get another year out of Mo and Mane. Sell one for decent cash and try rebuilding.

The structure is in place, maybe not to win the league every year but to compete. And that's all you can hope for.

I'm in the C camp.

Concerning thing is how to replace Klopp.
 
To be fair, with everyone fit, our squad looks very decent. The problem is we never have everyone fit.

And . . . if Jones keeps developing nicely, and Elliot achieves his potential in the next couple of years, its not as bad as we think.

But still, the conservative approach to squad building isn't going to keep us at the top for any prolonged period.
 
Not a single football club planned for Covid. Only the oligarchs can ignore it.

Juventus lost over 240m, Spurs took out a 200m loan to cover this period, Barca are fucked...

if you think we can ignore this then I don't know what to say to you.

Any new significant investment (great time to be investing in a new stand) would be on the assumption that Covid is gone... sadly the UK's government are dreadful and couldn't have botched it anymore if they'd tried.

Last I heard we lost 46m in our last accounts, with an estimated -140m (from memory) to come in the next accounts.

We do have a good youth team. Gordon, Beck, Koumetio, Cain, Bradley, Musialowski, Frauendorf, and Pitaluga all have a chance of making it, so we just have to hope someone makes the grade. Otherwise, it's just a case of waiting it out and wheeling and dealing.

Lets be honest at LFC we are putting all our hopes into the Jurgen Klopp factor becasue he's proving to be a man that can upstage the oil-rich teams through excellent management...He's a magician but he still needs money to compete, It feels like every time we win something that we are doing a mini version of Leicester.

In this covid period, you would think that now is the time to strengthen regulations to make the game more competitive not relax them. All Covid has done is given the oil-rich teams breathing space to flex their muscles again, it makes me sad. I hope Klopp stays longer than 3 years he has left because I can't really see any other managers that can go toe to toe with the oil-rich teams as Klopp has.
 
I think most of us are a reasonable bunch. Despite the occasional whining when we miss out/fail to sign alleged targets, we know fully well we aren't going to splash the cash like Chelsea and Man City. The impact that Covid has on our earnings have been mentioned repeatedly and we understand that but clubs (not in the league of those cash rich clubs) are still managing decent spending.



Besides, isn't moneyball signings something we aimed for? Minamino was probably the latest such attempt. Robertson was the last one I can recall. Other than Grujic and Gomez, there hasn't been signings of promising young players in view of joining the first team in the near future.

The main concern is we seem to be very "laid back" or passive in recent years when it comes to making signings/strengthening - seemingly trying to rely on/"take advantage" of Klopp's ability + willingness to make do with what's given.
  • Took windows before signing a left back
  • Didn't make any first team signings in 19/20 after winning the CL, subsequently added Minamino in Jan ("saved" by Klopp winning the league)
  • Jota might not have happened had Wolves not accepted structured payment
  • Handling of the CB injury crisis, including last min dash to make signing in Jan ("saved" by Klopp clinching CL qualification)
  • Matip, Ox, Keita, Shaqiri's injury records + Origi's "lack of contribution" but little/no attempt made to address strength in depth/options issue
  • Lack of rest for most of the starting XI players from both club football + international tournaments + AFCON to come
Can only hope things are moving forward in teams of squad planning and the likes of Minamino and Tsimikas can make more contribution.

Edit: Klopp tend to ease the new players into the squad/starting XI too (Robbo, Fabinho + recent signings who have barely featured) so it's also an advantage if we can spot/bring in the players early. Mentioned in another thread not every new signing can "do a Jota", and understandably so (see Keita).

Meanwhile, from Crystal Palace : A masterclass in how not to build a squad (which, they seem to be addressing with recent/pending signings of Eze, Olise and Guehi)

1*K3k4479Sy-CRixrDArtKwQ@2x.jpeg
 
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I stopped reading @King Binny post when the season we won the league was referred to as “saved”. We absolutely annihilated the rest of the field. We were so good we could’ve not played again after the restart, forfeiting every game and still won it.

I’ve missed every transfer so far and I doubt anyone has signed anyone that would make me jealous.
 
I stopped reading @King Binny post when the season we won the league was referred to as “saved”. We absolutely annihilated the rest of the field. We were so good we could’ve not played again after the restart, forfeiting every game and still won it.

I’ve missed every transfer so far and I doubt anyone has signed anyone that would make me jealous.

Was that the same season where we couldn't expect any success 'cos we didn't sign enough marquee players?
 
I stopped reading @King Binny post when the season we won the league was referred to as “saved”. We absolutely annihilated the rest of the field. We were so good we could’ve not played again after the restart, forfeiting every game and still won it.

I’ve missed every transfer so far and I doubt anyone has signed anyone that would make me jealous.

There's a reason why I typed "saved" and not saved.

In the league, VVD, Firmino and Trent were ever present. Gini, Robbo, Mane and Salah missed 10 games (out of a possible152). If we had injury issues to content with (luckily not, probably partly "thanks to" us dropping out of CL after Round of 16), us not making any signings that summer will definitely be discussed.
 
I think most of us are a reasonable bunch. Despite the occasional whining when we miss out/fail to sign alleged targets, we know fully well we aren't going to splash the cash like Chelsea and Man City. The impact that Covid has on our earnings have been mentioned repeatedly and we understand that but clubs (not in the league of those cash rich clubs) are still managing decent spending.



Besides, isn't moneyball signings something we aimed for? Minamino was probably the latest such attempt. Robertson was the last one I can recall. Other than Grujic and Gomez, there hasn't been signings of promising young players in view of joining the first team in the near future.

The main concern is we seem to be very "laid back" or passive in recent years when it comes to making signings/strengthening - seemingly trying to rely on/"take advantage" of Klopp's ability + willingness to make do with what's given.
  • Took windows before signing a left back
  • Didn't make any first team signings in 19/20 after winning the CL, subsequently added Minamino in Jan ("saved" by Klopp winning the league)
  • Jota might not have happened had Wolves not accepted structured payment
  • Handling of the CB injury crisis, including last min dash to make signing in Jan ("saved" by Klopp clinching CL qualification)
  • Matip, Ox, Keita, Shaqiri's injury records + Origi's "lack of contribution" but little/no attempt made to address strength in depth/options issue
  • Lack of rest for most of the starting XI players from both club football + international tournaments + AFCON to come
Can only hope things are moving forward in teams of squad planning and the likes of Minamino and Tsimikas can make more contribution.

Edit: Klopp tend to ease the new players into the squad/starting XI too (Robbo, Fabinho + recent signings who have barely featured) so it's also an advantage if we can spot/bring in the players early. Mentioned in another thread not every new signing can "do a Jota", and understandably so (see Keita).

Meanwhile, from Crystal Palace : A masterclass in how not to build a squad (which, they seem to be addressing with recent/pending signings of Eze, Olise and Guehi)

1*K3k4479Sy-CRixrDArtKwQ@2x.jpeg

Why are United missing from that chart? Strange omission one has to say.
 
Was that the same season where we couldn't expect any success 'cos we didn't sign enough marquee players?

That Mentality Monster season where we scored loads of late/injury time goals?

And who's to say because the players are so stretched mentally and physically, last season's injury woes and dip in performances from some players weren't part of the consequences?

Just want to highlight that the discussion here is about squad planning over the past seasons, not about a particular window or not splashing the cash to sign the likes of Werner, Havertz and Sancho. Cheers.
 
That Mentality Monster season where we scored loads of late/injury time goals?

And who's to say because the players are so stretched mentally and physically, last season's injury woes and dip in performances from some players weren't part of the consequences?

Just want to highlight that the discussion here is about squad planning over the past seasons, not about a particular window or not splashing the cash to sign the likes of Werner, Havertz and Sancho. Cheers.

Yeah, for sure. I don't disagree with the sentiment. I'm just along for the ride and enjoying how much better every aspect of our club is compared to a few years ago.

If we end up having a few years of success with this group and Klopp, and we fuck up opportunities for future success, I for one am not that bothered.
 
Yeah, for sure. I don't disagree with the sentiment. I'm just along for the ride and enjoying how much better every aspect of our club is compared to a few years ago.

If we end up having a few years of success with this group and Klopp, and we fuck up opportunities for future success, I for one am not that bothered.

No doubt about that. Just can't help but feel disappointed. Like what @mwake mentioned, if would have been great if Klopp can be supported to build something. Ok done with the pessimism, can't wait to be proven wrong by Edwards and co.
 
There's a reason why I typed "saved" and not saved.

In the league, VVD, Firmino and Trent were ever present. Gini, Robbo, Mane and Salah missed 10 games (out of a possible152). If we had injury issues to content with (luckily not, probably partly "thanks to" us dropping out of CL after Round of 16), us not making any signings that summer will definitely be discussed.

We were knocked out of the champions league a game before the season was paused so there was no thanks to be had.

Last season was a perfect storm of freak injuries, lack of crowds which impacts how everyone plays bar city and lack of goals from Mané considering the chances he had.

It is time to roll out the cliche that van Dijk will be like a new signing and we’ve just signed the potential heir to his throne. We have an abundance of centre backs now. I’m not sure how Robbo’s back up will cope as he played 6 minutes or something last season.

Getting a stand in for Trent has to be our top priority in my opinion as I won’t trust Gomez out there and to be fit.

Jones will come in and get lots of Wijnaldum’s minutes. I would be happier if we got another centre mid in.

Jota should be rotated in amongst the usual top 3.

There was absolutely no way a sustainable business would be spending money they didn’t have over the last 18 months. I’d be gobsmacked if they do this summer as we are heading into another lockdown despite the ridiculous opening up next week.

You’re right, we can talk about not strengthening about the summer after winning the champions league but the counter to that will be we pissed the league and could’ve won the European cup had we bought in better than Adrian.

Overall, our squad isn’t in a bad state and I’m not fuming with our transfer policy over the last few seasons. We had a good run of buying diamonds which came to a halt with Keita and Shaqiri. If we can get shut of them and get just one decent body in we’d look in great shape.

If things do end up “normal” and we win things next season then you’d have to question if we don’t start bringing in top tier talent.
 
I think most of us are a reasonable bunch. Despite the occasional whining when we miss out/fail to sign alleged targets, we know fully well we aren't going to splash the cash like Chelsea and Man City. The impact that Covid has on our earnings have been mentioned repeatedly and we understand that but clubs (not in the league of those cash rich clubs) are still managing decent spending.



Besides, isn't moneyball signings something we aimed for? Minamino was probably the latest such attempt. Robertson was the last one I can recall. Other than Grujic and Gomez, there hasn't been signings of promising young players in view of joining the first team in the near future.

The main concern is we seem to be very "laid back" or passive in recent years when it comes to making signings/strengthening - seemingly trying to rely on/"take advantage" of Klopp's ability + willingness to make do with what's given.
  • Took windows before signing a left back
  • Didn't make any first team signings in 19/20 after winning the CL, subsequently added Minamino in Jan ("saved" by Klopp winning the league)
  • Jota might not have happened had Wolves not accepted structured payment
  • Handling of the CB injury crisis, including last min dash to make signing in Jan ("saved" by Klopp clinching CL qualification)
  • Matip, Ox, Keita, Shaqiri's injury records + Origi's "lack of contribution" but little/no attempt made to address strength in depth/options issue
  • Lack of rest for most of the starting XI players from both club football + international tournaments + AFCON to come
Can only hope things are moving forward in teams of squad planning and the likes of Minamino and Tsimikas can make more contribution.

Edit: Klopp tend to ease the new players into the squad/starting XI too (Robbo, Fabinho + recent signings who have barely featured) so it's also an advantage if we can spot/bring in the players early. Mentioned in another thread not every new signing can "do a Jota", and understandably so (see Keita).

Meanwhile, from Crystal Palace : A masterclass in how not to build a squad (which, they seem to be addressing with recent/pending signings of Eze, Olise and Guehi)

1*K3k4479Sy-CRixrDArtKwQ@2x.jpeg


So City, Chelsea, Utd and Leicester all have considerably younger squads than us. That number would probably have been even higher had Virgil been fit for the season.

Konate, Gomez, Jones and Elliot could all help balance that out this season but the numbers suggest we are lagging behind our peers in terms of squad building. Eventually there is a price to pay for that as either performances decline in line with athletic peak of the players or you have to complete a massive costly overhaul of the squad to rebalance it.
 


Firmino, Origi and Minamino...great


That is misleading. We will mix and match playing 3 out of the 4 of Salah, Mané, Firmino and Jota. Elliott will also get game time. If Shaqiri stays fit he can take some of the pressure. Would I like another forward? Yes but i won’t act like the world has ended if we don’t.
 
That is misleading. We will mix and match playing 3 out of the 4 of Salah, Mané, Firmino and Jota. Elliott will also get game time. If Shaqiri stays fit he can take some of the pressure. Would I like another forward? Yes but i won’t act like the world has ended if we don’t.
Yes it is somewhat misleading but the point is, Origi is still our backup striker. We have no one competing with Firmino.
You mention rotating and I'm fine with that but, I don't think Salah, Mané or Jota have been that great when they've played upfront.
Also, I don't mind Shaq but we need to sell him.
 
Yes it is somewhat misleading but the point is, Origi is still our backup striker. We have no one competing with Firmino.
You mention rotating and I'm fine with that but, I don't think Salah, Mané or Jota have been that great when they've played upfront.
Also, I don't mind Shaq but we need to sell him.
Origi will be wayyyyyy down the pecking order. My bold prediction of the season is Elliott will get more minutes, goals and assists than Origi.

We’ve also never tried any of those up front with Thiago in a more advanced position. That could make the difference.

We will only sell Shaqiri if a) we get what we want and b) we know where we are spending the money.
 
Origi will be wayyyyyy down the pecking order. My bold prediction of the season is Elliott will get more minutes, goals and assists than Origi.

We’ve also never tried any of those up front with Thiago in a more advanced position. That could make the difference.

We will only sell Shaqiri if a) we get what we want and b) we know where we are spending the money.

I really hope he does, because I've seen enough of Origi. Eliott, is someone that can play behind the striker in a AM role or on the wing. I have high hopes for him as well, but he's still a kid.

Where does Minamino fit in all this?
 
Pearce in the Athletic today:

There was an emotional reaction to the news that Jordan Henderson faces an uncertain future.

The idea that Liverpool wouldn’t move heaven and earth to ensure their inspirational captain remains at Anfield beyond the end of his current contract in the summer of 2023 doesn’t sit right with many supporters.
The Athletic revealed on Monday that talks this summer over a new deal haven’t progressed. What’s currently on the table from the club isn’t an attractive proposition for the player, and that has alerted Paris Saint-Germain and Atletico Madrid to his potential availability.

Henderson is 31 and will be 33 by the time the contract he’s on now expires. He believes that he will still be just as influential – both on and off the field – into his mid-30s. But given the impasse, it’s clear that some members of the club hierarchy are less convinced.
Many view that stance as disrespectful to a loyal servant whose commanding midfield performances and leadership helped Liverpool follow up Champions League final glory in 2019 with their first league title for 30 years last summer.

“Just give him what he wants and get it sorted,” was the overriding response from dismayed fans to The Athletic’s story.
However, some highlighted the business sense in only offering a short extension heavily incentivised with performance-related bonuses, given Henderson’s age and injury record.

It’s a quandary for Liverpool and there are others on the horizon for owner Fenway Sports Group (FSG) to deal with.
Shrewd recruitment enabled manager Jurgen Klopp and sporting director Michael Edwards to assemble an outstanding line-up that landed the biggest prizes, also including the Club World Cup, but now the task of building another great team is underway.
Liverpool are committed to a strategy of evolution rather than revolution. They are wary of finding themselves in a position further down the line where they are having to rip things up and start again.

That’s why a big part of Edwards’ work this summer surrounds getting the club’s gems nailed down to new long-term deals. Alisson, Fabinho, Virgil van Dijk, Trent Alexander-Arnold and Andy Robertson are exactly the types who Liverpool view as still being absolutely integral to their hopes of success in three or four years’ time.

But there’s also an acceptance that, over the next 12 months, the process of refreshing and regenerating the personnel around that core group has to be cranked up a few gears.

This is the fifth transfer window since Liverpool won the Champions League in Madrid. Diogo Jota and Thiago are the only new arrivals in that period who have played on a regular basis. Ibrahima Konate, a £35 million summer signing from RB Leipzig, is expected to join them in the coming season. Changes have been minimal but that’s not sustainable.

FSG knows it can’t just sit back and allow too many players to grow old together. That was one of the reasons why it didn’t give 30-year-old Georginio Wijnaldum the contract offer he wanted, leading him to leave when his deal expired and join PSG this summer.

There are other tough decisions ahead.

For example, it’s simply not realistic that Klopp’s long-established front three of Mohamed Salah, Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino will all have their contracts renewed.

All three are 29 years old and have each entered the final two years of their existing deals. Liverpool can’t have a situation where the three of them are still on the books at age 33, continuing to be paid huge salaries while way past their best. But the club also can’t have a situation where they are trying to replace all three at around the same time, as the cost in terms of transfers would be huge.

The process has to be staggered.

Of the trio, agreeing a new contract for Salah is currently the biggest priority. Considering his remarkable record of 125 goals for the club in 203 matches, that’s hardly surprising.

Despite the speculation about his future generated by the interviews the Egypt international granted to Spanish media last season, senior Liverpool sources insist his conduct around the club has been impeccable. No one doubts his commitment to the cause.
However, there are no absolute guarantees at this stage that an agreement with Salah’s representatives will be reached. The pandemic has had an impact on the kind of pay rises being offered. It has also reduced Salah’s options, even if he was privately considering the merits of embarking on a new challenge.

With Mane the next attacker in line for fresh terms after Salah, it’s Firmino who looks to be the most vulnerable. The Brazilian’s place came under serious threat from the dynamic Jota last season. Firmino, who turns 30 in October, finished the campaign strongly with three goals in the final four matches as Liverpool secured Champions League qualification but an overall return of just nine goals in all competitions was disappointing. His influence appears to be waning.

If Firmino doesn’t get a new deal, then there’s a call to be made over whether you look to sell next summer and get a fee for him.
FSG has shown with Emre Can and now Wijnaldum it’s at ease with losing players for nothing if it makes sense to keep them for their contract’s final year. It would rather do that than extend a contract and risk ending up paying millions of pounds in wages further down the line to someone who is no longer of much value to the team.

When it comes to buying replacements, Liverpool’s model won’t change — the signing of Thiago from Bayern Munich at the age of 29 last summer was an exception to the rule.

The profile will be players aged 24 or under who are hungry and have something to prove. They will seek value and potential rather than purchasing a finished article already operating at the peak of his powers. In effect, they will be looking to replicate what they did when signing Firmino, Mane and Salah.

For a loyal manager who has such a close bond with his players, it won’t be easy for Klopp to cut ties with those who have been so integral to the glory he has masterminded. He had wanted Wijnaldum to stay and found saying goodbye to the Dutch midfielder difficult.

But that’s where Edwards comes in.

It’s his job to take the emotion and the sentiment out of the decision-making process. He has to be ruthless as Liverpool evolve.
There will also be the transition period to oversee if, as expected, Klopp takes a career break when his current contract ends in the summer of 2024. Talk about huge boots to fill.

Before then, there’s much to sort out.

This isn’t the end of the cycle for the core of Liverpool’s title-winning team, but the end isn’t far away.

The need to gradually refresh and regenerate is clear.

Resources need to be channelled accordingly, but most fans would be happier if that process included keeping their captain on board.
 
Interesting, official feelers looks like.
Why doesn’t Pearce just take up an official position as Liverpool FC spoke person?
Him working for anyone else is a bit disinginious.
 
“Just give him what he wants and get it sorted”

I don't want to see Henderson leave but come on now.

The main point of interest is that Pearce seems to be setting the scene for one of the front three leaving...





























































EaDMx7eWoAsl-6R.jpg
Why is he wearing a kit from 2 seasons ago?
 
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