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Time for Trent to get into Midfield?

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mwake

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  1. Southgate saying he ain't good enough for England at RB
  2. Liverpool fans saying Trent ain't good enough at RB
  3. He'd be less of a defensive liability in midfield
  4. Wed have someone who would offer a genuine threat from midfield
  5. Our current midfield lack enough creativity
  6. Trent playing for LFC academy as a midfielder

Obviously, Klopp won't do it because Klopp has a blindspot IMHO but what do you guys and gals think?
 
  1. Southgate saying he ain't good enough for England at RB
  2. Liverpool fans saying Trent ain't good enough at RB
  3. He'd be less of a defensive liability in midfield
  4. Wed have someone who would offer a genuine threat from midfield
  5. Our current midfield lack enough creativity
  6. Trent playing for LFC academy as a midfielder
Obviously, Klopp won't do it because Klopp has a blindspot IMHO but what do you guys and gals think?
So who goes in the RB position instead? I think it's a good thing Southgate doesn't pick him, it means he stays fresh for LFC
 
I guess I had said 4 or 5 weeks ago that Trent should be in midfield in the long term but not right now. Not next season at least (not the full season unless we have a replacement RB). He should play there not because
  1. He is not a good RB defensively. That is BS.
  2. but he can be even better in Liverpool's midfield
  3. We need someone to take over from Gini/Milner/Hendo in the long term.
  4. His game intelligence and vision can surely be an asset having him in the midfield
  5. People need to forget that at RB he finds more space. Trent' game awareness is incredibly high and he will surely get into positions that he will have enough space around him to do what is required in that situation.

Unfortunately, we do not have someone who can play equally good at RB as Trent. So either Neco needs to developed or sign another Robertson for a RB position.
 
No.
Southgate’s managing abilities shouldn’t be used in the analysis. He’s not a great manager especially when you consider his awful ingame management but that’s another discussion. He can’t find space in squad for once in a genrational talent, Southgate is the type who will pick Matty Cash ahead of him.

Think this was already discussed in another thread recently but we don’t play the right formation for RM of Trent’s ability.
If he is to be moved up then would try in Salah’s Right sided forward role but would mean we have no one to offer the balls Trent plays from deep.


There’s quiet a few reasons in the team for Trent being exposed outside of his own naivity and lack of concentration at times with positional sense.
 
Let's be honest here. If Trent's defending was as good as his attacking there wouldn't even be a debate about his best position. He scored the winning goals yesterday but he still had a few sloppy moments. Yes I take it that he's having to play with lesser quality central defenders but his defending was still a question even when VVD and Gomez were around. Trent has always been a weak link that other teams have tried to exploit. I think people confuse Trent the assist maker with Trent the defender.

As for alternatives for the right-back this young player looks really good and has been getting rave reviews


 
There is no way his defending was ever going to be as good as his attacking, it’s just not possible. It doesn’t mean he can’t get better as a defender though, he’s 22 and will get better.
 
Let's be honest here. If Trent's defending was as good as his attacking there wouldn't even be a debate about his best position. He scored the winning goals yesterday but he still had a few sloppy moments. Yes I take it that he's having to play with lesser quality central defenders but his defending was still a question even when VVD and Gomez were around. Trent has always been a weak link that other teams have tried to exploit. I think people confuse Trent the assist maker with Trent the defender.

As for alternatives for the right-back this young player looks really good and has been getting rave reviews




This young player also seems to get injured a lot...
 
As incredible as some of his passing can be, particularly his crosses or across the field to Robbo or Mane, Trent often passes straight to the opposition in his short passing game. I couldn’t trust him in a central position due to that. And he’s the best right back we’ve had in my living memory. In terms of benefit to the team, he ranks above Babbel for me.
And like others have said I hope he doesn’t get selected by the useless Southgate. All the better for us.
 
If Trent moves into a central midfield position, won’t he :

- not be in a position to whip in some glorious crosses from out wide?
- be unable to smack pin-point Cross field passes from a deep position on the right?
- be expected to cover defensively while the RB bombs forward to support the attack?
 
Could this be something to test?

---------------GK-------------
--------CB---CB---CB------
TAA----MC-----MC----LWB
-------AM-----------AM-------
--------------FW--------------

This could suit our squad well.
Right CB needs to be quick and mobile to cover.
You can invert the from three as well, with two wider forwards up front.
Central CB can step forward into defensive midfield too, wing backs can fall back.
A quite flexible formation.
 
I've said it before, but I foresee 2030, when Liverpool pick up their 25th league title, and their 12th European Cup under the captaincy of the worlds best right back Trent Alexander Arnold, there will a SCM thread about whether or not it is time for him to move to midfield. It will include the justification that Steven Gerrard "started" at RB (he payed 2-3 games there maximum)
 
I think not enough people are willing to admit that Phillips being a bit slow on the cover is a factor in some of the defensive problems we have down the right side.
Yep, and I think Southgate's reticence about using Trent is a lot to do with the (lack of) quality of the centre backs England have, notwithstanding his preference for a generally defensive approach to tactics.
 
Let's be honest here. If Trent's defending was as good as his attacking there wouldn't even be a debate about his best position. He scored the winning goals yesterday but he still had a few sloppy moments. Yes I take it that he's having to play with lesser quality central defenders but his defending was still a question even when VVD and Gomez were around. Trent has always been a weak link that other teams have tried to exploit. I think people confuse Trent the assist maker with Trent the defender.

As for alternatives for the right-back this young player looks really good and has been getting rave reviews



So you're talking about next season? Lumptey is going to cost £50m plus, seeing that we need a Gini and a Kieta replacement, a forward and at least 1 CB how do you make that work?
 
Trent is a great footballer, and for this reason I suspect he'd be a good '3rd' CM pressing and making runs past the attackers. However, the drop off at RB would be huge unless we are planning to replace him. However for the price I suspect it would cost to replace him would we not be better buying an AM.

I do think his talents of ball striking would be useful if he were more central, as we saw however.
 
I'd rather have his attacking abilities from full back. Pinging those cross field balls and contributing with assists.
He's only 22 years old and on form is the best right back in the World.
The naivety in his defending is easily described as being a poor defender, but thats a very sloppy conclusion.
We conceded 33 goals in 19/20, and 22 goals in 18/19. This season is obviously something else but that can be explained with injuries, covid etc.
Its not like we have a pressing issue with our defense when everyone is back fit.

Moving Trent to midfield would see us having to start all over again with the relations built up in defense, the attacking right side and in midfield.
Without knowing if it would even work.
Its a much better plan to invest in a top RCB to play next to Trent. Minimal of change, max upgrade.
 
Ken Early: It’s time for Alexander-Arnold to move to the middle
Liverpool and England fullback might be too good to spend his career on the right flank

"Are you watching Gary Neville! ” shouted Jamie Carragher. Has any brilliant injury-time winner ever been greeted quite like that? People got annoyed. Trent Alexander-Arnold produces a Steven Gerrard moment, and Carragher’s first comment is about an argument he’s been having with his co-pundit? How dare he make it about them.
Except . . . it sort of was about them. Alexander-Arnold has been trapped in a grim cycle of “answering the critics” since being dropped from the England squad last month. The eye of narrative Sauron has whipped around and zeroed in on him, and now everything he does has an extra layer of meaning as the latest strike in the ongoing infowar with the doubters and critics. An assist for Diogo Jota at Arsenal the weekend before last – can you really afford to leave him out, Gareth? A mistake to let in Sergio Asensio in Madrid last Tuesday -– this is what Southgate was worried about. A last-minute winner to beat Aston Villa on Saturday – what a way to answer the critics . . . are you watching, Gary Neville?
It’s plain that Alexander-Arnold has himself been sucked into this unfortunate dynamic. Shortly after full-time on Saturday he posted a picture of himself celebrating the goal, kissing the badge, captioned “Are you not entertained?”
Sustained critical scrutiny is a new experience for the reigning PFA Young Player of the Year, who was barely 21 when Jamie Carragher first hailed him as “Kevin de Bruyne at right-back.”
He’s already won titles at national, European and world level. And now he suddenly finds himself being discussed as though he is a liability, a weak link, a clear and present danger to England’s dreams of Euro 2021 glory?
Gary Neville has warned him to “get serious about his defending”, Rio Ferdinand has advised him to “go back to basics”, Ashley Cole has suggested he needed to look at his “foot patterns”, and last week Carragher demonstrated on CBS Sports how he should be bending his knees when jockeying opponents.

Never happens to Kevin
You know who this sort of thing never happens to? Kevin de Bruyne. It’s not as though De Bruyne is never involved in a defensive shambles. There have been a couple of occasions this season when he has been exposed by system breakdown. Remember Giovani Lo Celso’s goal in Spurs’ 2-0 win over City in November, or Luke Shaw’s in Manchester United’s 2-0 win at the Etihad? In both cases, a City full back was caught out of position and De Bruyne was forced into a doomed 50-yard chase after an escaping attacker, red-faced and blowing hard.
Do you remember people talking about what a defensive liability Kevin de Bruyne is? “De Bruyne’s fine, as long as the ball doesn’t go behind him”?
Do you remember pundits queuing up to offer coaching tips as to how de Bruyne could avoid these mistakes in future? No, because everyone knows that running after breakaway attackers is not Kevin de Bruyne’s job.
It’s different when you’re Kevin de Bruyne at right back. Until recently, Alexander-Arnold seemed content to excel in his adopted position, telling Carragher last summer: “I think about how I can go about becoming the best right back the Premier League has ever seen . . . At right-back I am finding I have more touches of the ball than anyone, even more than I would in midfield. For now, it’s not broke, so no need to fix it.”
How about now? Liverpool’s system has broken down. Alexander-Arnold’s assists have dried up just as his defending has come under more pressure. Ploughing his little furrow out wide, he gets much criticism and little glory. His goal on Saturday was a glimpse of what might be possible if he played in the middle. Imagine he could do that full-time, like the other Kevin de Bruyne, instead of having to think about foot patterns so Ferland Mendy doesn’t walk past him again on Wednesday night.
Remember he is only a right back by accident. That was the position that was free in the first team when he happened to come along. Before then he was a central midfielder. As Ian Barrigan, Alexander-Arnold’s coach at Country Park under-sevens, told The Athletic: “He’d always play in the middle of midfield because he was the best player.”
The professional level is not fundamentally different: the best players still play in the middle. Sometimes they start on the outside, like Messi or Ronaldo or Zidane drifting wide to receive, but they end up on the inside, because that’s where the game is decided. You have to be good to play inside because it’s a 360 degree game. A full back stays on the outside, playing a 180-degree game. They are by definition a secondary or support player.
A list of the best full backs of the last 20 years would include names such as Andy Robertson, Dani Alves, Jordi Alba, Patrice Evra, Ashley Cole, Marcelo, Cafu, Bixente Lizarazu, and Roberto Carlos.
What do they have in common? First, they’re 90-minute runners with the energy to tear up and down the field. That’s the indispensable quality for a fullback. They’re often a bit one-footed, which is okay because they only have to kick the ball in one direction. They’re mentally sharp: dependable, alert, tactically aware, always ready to help out. And no matter how good they are, they were never the best player on their team.
Alexander-Arnold is not the best player at Liverpool, but unlike Andy Robertson, he has the potential to be. Now he has to ask himself an awkward question: am I too good for this? If he’s honest with himself, it’s clear what his answer will be. Since he was ambitious enough to talk openly about reinventing the entire concept of right back, it’s a safe bet he believes he’s good enough to succeed as a central midfielder.
If he pushes for this switch he will be accused of egotism, as was David Beckham, another brilliant wide player who confused many with his ambition to play in the middle. Alex Ferguson thought Beckham should focus on what he was good at – running up and down and crossing.
But is it ego to want to develop your talent to its fullest extent? Beckham failed, but the list of players who have successfully made the switch is long. Fabinho was a right back until 2016. Steven Gerrard broke into the Liverpool team as a right back.

Munich examples
At Bayern, the switch from full back to central midfield is practically a club tradition. Philipp Lahm played left- or right back for nearly a decade for Bayern and Germany, until Pep Guardiola arrived in 2013 and decided he was wasted on the periphery. Since then, Joshua Kimmich has followed a similar trajectory at a younger age, establishing himself in the Bayern and Germany teams as a raiding right back until it was clear he was simply too good not to use in central midfield.
David Alaba played at left back for Bayern for years but in latter years featured more in central defence. It’s always been a different story with Austria, where he’s been the best player in the squad for a decade, and so has almost always played in midfield, because that is where the best players play.
With Georginio Wijnaldum leaving, Jordan Henderson injured, James Milner getting old, and Naby Keita and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain struggling, midfield places are up for grabs at Liverpool in a way they haven’t been for years.
If Alexander-Arnold believes he is good enough to become the top player at Liverpool, this is the moment to make the move. The alternative is to stay out wide, shuttling up and down, and watch as Curtis Jones drinks his milkshake.
 
I think there are a couple of factors in favor of moving him into midfield but the main one is simply how much more influence he could have on the game from a central position with his vision and technique.

The main thing holding him back is that we don't have a decent RB to replace him. We are likely going to lose 3 or 4 of our CMs from the squad this summer. Jones will take one of those spots. I think Trent should get a chance to see what he can do at CM. It's obviously dependent on the club identifying a quality RB who could come in and replace him as I don't think there's currently anybody at the club who can do it.
 
So you're talking about next season? Lumptey is going to cost £50m plus, seeing that we need a Gini and a Kieta replacement, a forward and at least 1 CB how do you make that work?
Were not going to need a Keita replacement because there's no way Klopp is going to sell him, esp so if both Gini and Milner leave/retire and Ox. is sold too (as I expect). Too many midfield changes.
 
The way I see it is TAA is our best RB, Neco Williams is not as good, so before we go rushing and put TAA in midfield we should atleast get some one as good as he is at RB becuase we will be looking for our front line to be getting the same sort of service we currently get from TAA
 
It will never happen under Klopp. Trent broke all league records for a full-back in Klopps system, so playing Trent at RB couldn't work any better for us. I don't understand the constant need to think about changing it.

Our midfielders spend most of the time running around, playing safe passes, progressing the ball conservatively up the pitch, and covering the full-backs. Why anyone would want Trent doing that is beyond me.

Trent should be given a free role when we are desperately needing a goal and on top of a game, but beyond that, I don't see why Klopp would ever change his position. The full-backs are as bigger stars in this side as Mane and Salah.
 
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It will never happen under Klopp. Trent broke all league records for a full-back in Klopps system, so playing Trent at RB couldn't work any better for us. I don't understand the constant need to think about changing it.

Our midfielders spend most of the time running around, playing safe passes and progressing the ball conservative up the pitch and covering the full-backs. Why anyone would want Trent doing that is beyond me.

Trent should be given a free role when we are desperately needing a goal and on top of a game, but beyond that, I don't see why Klopp would ever change his position.

Yep, our main midfielders in our best seasons were Hendo, Fab and Gini. You can see the kind of attributes these midfielders have. They have specific roles in midfield and their emphasis is not on attacking. We have our front 3 and wing backs for that.

Pulling Trent out from a position where he can attack the most, to a position where the main job is not in attacking, doesn't make much sense.
 
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