We ARE all witnesses.
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[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33674.msg876101#msg876101 date=1243395680]
3-1 Magic.
Lights out LeBron.
[/quote]
Yup
3-1 Magic.
Lights out LeBron.
[/quote]
Yup
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. They are not very nice to watch in this series with LeBron getting the ball and trying to individually win the game by either muscling his way in or shooting for 3. No team play whatsoever.
Anyway, this year's playoffs look wide open - I hope the Lakers don't win it...
Anyway, this year's playoffs look wide open - I hope the Lakers don't win it...
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876127#msg876127 date=1243403433]
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. [/quote]
That's just flat out wrong. Cleveland just matched up exceptionally well to Detroit and Atlanta. Orlando has a major advantage with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis - it's become a mismatch that Cleveland hasn't figured out how to counter. Cleveland are still the best team in the Eastern Conference imo, if not the league. That being said, the 'best' teams don't always win the series they're supposed to win ...
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. [/quote]
That's just flat out wrong. Cleveland just matched up exceptionally well to Detroit and Atlanta. Orlando has a major advantage with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis - it's become a mismatch that Cleveland hasn't figured out how to counter. Cleveland are still the best team in the Eastern Conference imo, if not the league. That being said, the 'best' teams don't always win the series they're supposed to win ...
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876135#msg876135 date=1243405149]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876127#msg876127 date=1243403433]
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. [/quote]
That's just flat out wrong. Cleveland just matched up exceptionally well to Detroit and Atlanta. Orlando has a major advantage with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis - it's become a mismatch that Cleveland hasn't figured out how to counter. Cleveland are still the best team in the Eastern Conference imo, if not the league. That being said, the 'best' teams don't always win the series they're supposed to win ...
[/quote]
So which part is wrong there? You seem to agree with the first sentence, right?
As for the 2nd part - I can't see why you're disagreeing with that part - Detroit had a terrible season, which was perfectly reflected in their play-off, while Atlanta are apparently not that great.
As for being the best team, yet having a mismatch against Orlando - Isn't the best team supposed to be able to beat all the others? One could argue that Orlando is in a better form in the playoffs, and they've been improving throughout the Boston series as well as during this current series. I would agree to that. However I believe that so far this season Orlando has beaten Cleveland 5 times to 2 Cleveland wins. Cleveland are yet to win in Orlando this season (which might well happen in game 6 - if there is one), so I guess it does not look good for Cleveland.
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876127#msg876127 date=1243403433]
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. [/quote]
That's just flat out wrong. Cleveland just matched up exceptionally well to Detroit and Atlanta. Orlando has a major advantage with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis - it's become a mismatch that Cleveland hasn't figured out how to counter. Cleveland are still the best team in the Eastern Conference imo, if not the league. That being said, the 'best' teams don't always win the series they're supposed to win ...
[/quote]
So which part is wrong there? You seem to agree with the first sentence, right?
As for the 2nd part - I can't see why you're disagreeing with that part - Detroit had a terrible season, which was perfectly reflected in their play-off, while Atlanta are apparently not that great.
As for being the best team, yet having a mismatch against Orlando - Isn't the best team supposed to be able to beat all the others? One could argue that Orlando is in a better form in the playoffs, and they've been improving throughout the Boston series as well as during this current series. I would agree to that. However I believe that so far this season Orlando has beaten Cleveland 5 times to 2 Cleveland wins. Cleveland are yet to win in Orlando this season (which might well happen in game 6 - if there is one), so I guess it does not look good for Cleveland.
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876185#msg876185 date=1243410876]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876135#msg876135 date=1243405149]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876127#msg876127 date=1243403433]
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. [/quote]
That's just flat out wrong. Cleveland just matched up exceptionally well to Detroit and Atlanta. Orlando has a major advantage with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis - it's become a mismatch that Cleveland hasn't figured out how to counter. Cleveland are still the best team in the Eastern Conference imo, if not the league. That being said, the 'best' teams don't always win the series they're supposed to win ...
[/quote]
So which part is wrong there? You seem to agree with the first sentence, right?
As for the 2nd part - I can't see why you're disagreeing with that part - Detroit had a terrible season, which was perfectly reflected in their play-off, while Atlanta are apparently not that great.
As for being the best team, yet having a mismatch against Orlando - Isn't the best team supposed to be able to beat all the others? One could argue that Orlando is in a better form in the playoffs, and they've been improving throughout the Boston series as well as during this current series. I would agree to that. However I believe that so far this season Orlando has beaten Cleveland 5 times to 2 Cleveland wins. Cleveland are yet to win in Orlando this season (which might well happen in game 6 - if there is one), so I guess it does not look good for Cleveland.[/quote]
Ok ... so to sum it up, 'the best team' will always win the championship in the NBA? How did the Suns do a few years ago when they were the best team?
Fact is again, Orlando provide a major mismatch for Cleveland, and they've been unable to 'crack' it. As I said earlier, Howard and Lewis not only pose difficult issues defenisvely, they basically eliminate Ilgaskus & Varejao's contribution on the offensive boards ...
The Cavs won't win this series (I don't think at least), but that doesn't mean they weren't the best team in NBA in the regular season.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876135#msg876135 date=1243405149]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876127#msg876127 date=1243403433]
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. [/quote]
That's just flat out wrong. Cleveland just matched up exceptionally well to Detroit and Atlanta. Orlando has a major advantage with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis - it's become a mismatch that Cleveland hasn't figured out how to counter. Cleveland are still the best team in the Eastern Conference imo, if not the league. That being said, the 'best' teams don't always win the series they're supposed to win ...
[/quote]
So which part is wrong there? You seem to agree with the first sentence, right?
As for the 2nd part - I can't see why you're disagreeing with that part - Detroit had a terrible season, which was perfectly reflected in their play-off, while Atlanta are apparently not that great.
As for being the best team, yet having a mismatch against Orlando - Isn't the best team supposed to be able to beat all the others? One could argue that Orlando is in a better form in the playoffs, and they've been improving throughout the Boston series as well as during this current series. I would agree to that. However I believe that so far this season Orlando has beaten Cleveland 5 times to 2 Cleveland wins. Cleveland are yet to win in Orlando this season (which might well happen in game 6 - if there is one), so I guess it does not look good for Cleveland.[/quote]
Ok ... so to sum it up, 'the best team' will always win the championship in the NBA? How did the Suns do a few years ago when they were the best team?
Fact is again, Orlando provide a major mismatch for Cleveland, and they've been unable to 'crack' it. As I said earlier, Howard and Lewis not only pose difficult issues defenisvely, they basically eliminate Ilgaskus & Varejao's contribution on the offensive boards ...
The Cavs won't win this series (I don't think at least), but that doesn't mean they weren't the best team in NBA in the regular season.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876194#msg876194 date=1243411981]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876185#msg876185 date=1243410876]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876135#msg876135 date=1243405149]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876127#msg876127 date=1243403433]
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. [/quote]
That's just flat out wrong. Cleveland just matched up exceptionally well to Detroit and Atlanta. Orlando has a major advantage with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis - it's become a mismatch that Cleveland hasn't figured out how to counter. Cleveland are still the best team in the Eastern Conference imo, if not the league. That being said, the 'best' teams don't always win the series they're supposed to win ...
[/quote]
So which part is wrong there? You seem to agree with the first sentence, right?
As for the 2nd part - I can't see why you're disagreeing with that part - Detroit had a terrible season, which was perfectly reflected in their play-off, while Atlanta are apparently not that great.
As for being the best team, yet having a mismatch against Orlando - Isn't the best team supposed to be able to beat all the others? One could argue that Orlando is in a better form in the playoffs, and they've been improving throughout the Boston series as well as during this current series. I would agree to that. However I believe that so far this season Orlando has beaten Cleveland 5 times to 2 Cleveland wins. Cleveland are yet to win in Orlando this season (which might well happen in game 6 - if there is one), so I guess it does not look good for Cleveland.[/quote]
Ok ... so to sum it up, 'the best team' will always win the championship in the NBA? How did the Suns do a few years ago when they were the best team?
[/quote]
That's true more often than not. Significantly more often I would say.
They probably were the best team in the NBA regular season as their league position and wins-loses implies. However, if they don't get past Orlando and win the title, this would probably cast some clouds over their claim to be the best team this season.
Anyway, with LeBron developing into a real monster and with Orlando's emergance as a real force, the next few years promise to be interesting in the east.
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876185#msg876185 date=1243410876]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876135#msg876135 date=1243405149]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=33674.msg876127#msg876127 date=1243403433]
Looks like LeBron cannot beat Orlando on his own. So Detroit and Atlanta were apparently very weak which made Cleveland look better than they actually are. [/quote]
That's just flat out wrong. Cleveland just matched up exceptionally well to Detroit and Atlanta. Orlando has a major advantage with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis - it's become a mismatch that Cleveland hasn't figured out how to counter. Cleveland are still the best team in the Eastern Conference imo, if not the league. That being said, the 'best' teams don't always win the series they're supposed to win ...
[/quote]
So which part is wrong there? You seem to agree with the first sentence, right?
As for the 2nd part - I can't see why you're disagreeing with that part - Detroit had a terrible season, which was perfectly reflected in their play-off, while Atlanta are apparently not that great.
As for being the best team, yet having a mismatch against Orlando - Isn't the best team supposed to be able to beat all the others? One could argue that Orlando is in a better form in the playoffs, and they've been improving throughout the Boston series as well as during this current series. I would agree to that. However I believe that so far this season Orlando has beaten Cleveland 5 times to 2 Cleveland wins. Cleveland are yet to win in Orlando this season (which might well happen in game 6 - if there is one), so I guess it does not look good for Cleveland.[/quote]
Ok ... so to sum it up, 'the best team' will always win the championship in the NBA? How did the Suns do a few years ago when they were the best team?
[/quote]
That's true more often than not. Significantly more often I would say.
They probably were the best team in the NBA regular season as their league position and wins-loses implies. However, if they don't get past Orlando and win the title, this would probably cast some clouds over their claim to be the best team this season.
Anyway, with LeBron developing into a real monster and with Orlando's emergance as a real force, the next few years promise to be interesting in the east.
Dallas had the best record in the NBA in 2006/07 - did they win the NBA championship?
Detroit had the best record in the NBA in 2005/06 - did they win the NBA championship?
The best team will not always win ... Why that happens? A team gets really hot in the playoffs or they come up against teams that just offer too much one way or another for that specific series ...
I think Orlando, if they wrap up this series, could very well beat LA or Denver.
Detroit had the best record in the NBA in 2005/06 - did they win the NBA championship?
The best team will not always win ... Why that happens? A team gets really hot in the playoffs or they come up against teams that just offer too much one way or another for that specific series ...
I think Orlando, if they wrap up this series, could very well beat LA or Denver.
Face facts, Lebron just does not have a great supporting cast. How many other starters for the Cavs would make the starting lineup with LA, Denver or Orlando? I say none.
I know it is an overused excuse, but Lebron is young, and does not have much support, that's why he feels like he needs to take the game on his shoulders.
I think the fact they have made it this far speaks volumes for Lebron's talent, take lebron out of the picture, and Cleveland is competing for first pick in the draft.
I know it is an overused excuse, but Lebron is young, and does not have much support, that's why he feels like he needs to take the game on his shoulders.
I think the fact they have made it this far speaks volumes for Lebron's talent, take lebron out of the picture, and Cleveland is competing for first pick in the draft.
[quote author=Karl Hungus link=topic=33674.msg876562#msg876562 date=1243438318]
Face facts, Lebron just does not have a great supporting cast. How many other starters for the Cavs would make the starting lineup with LA, Denver or Orlando? I say none.
I know it is an overused excuse, but Lebron is young, and does not have much support, that's why he feels like he needs to take the game on his shoulders.
I think the fact they have made it this far speaks volumes for Lebron's talent, take lebron out of the picture, and Cleveland is competing for first pick in the draft.
[/quote]
I think you're being a bit harsh here - they have a good supporting cast. They need one more 'star' to pair with him (Carmelo/Chauncey, Kobe/Pau, Howard/Lewis) and that should take them to the next level.
Face facts, Lebron just does not have a great supporting cast. How many other starters for the Cavs would make the starting lineup with LA, Denver or Orlando? I say none.
I know it is an overused excuse, but Lebron is young, and does not have much support, that's why he feels like he needs to take the game on his shoulders.
I think the fact they have made it this far speaks volumes for Lebron's talent, take lebron out of the picture, and Cleveland is competing for first pick in the draft.
[/quote]
I think you're being a bit harsh here - they have a good supporting cast. They need one more 'star' to pair with him (Carmelo/Chauncey, Kobe/Pau, Howard/Lewis) and that should take them to the next level.
Agreed, but right now, they have no one close to that. Which, if anything just re-iterates Lebron's talent.
The two best "teams" left are Orlando and Denver. The two teams with the best two individual players left are Cleveland and LA.
That may be enough for LA, but doesn't lool like it'll get Cleveland over the hump.
If you took the best player away from each of the respective teams remaining, you'd rank them as such: 1. Denver. 2. Orlando. 3. LA. 4. Cleveland. The fact that LA and now Cleveland are such a force is testament to just how f#$!ing good Kobe and LeBron are... They are clearly the top two players in the league, and not by a short distance.
Avy, regular season means nothing, except for deciding playoff placings. You, of all people, should know that. Having said that, MOST of the time, the best (strongest, toughest, most balanced) team usually wins the title. The Heat are the only recent exception to the rule that I can think of.
Judging LeBron's individual talent (or Kobe's) by how his team does, is like telling me that Stevie G wasn't world class until Istanbul. It's bollocks.
That may be enough for LA, but doesn't lool like it'll get Cleveland over the hump.
If you took the best player away from each of the respective teams remaining, you'd rank them as such: 1. Denver. 2. Orlando. 3. LA. 4. Cleveland. The fact that LA and now Cleveland are such a force is testament to just how f#$!ing good Kobe and LeBron are... They are clearly the top two players in the league, and not by a short distance.
Avy, regular season means nothing, except for deciding playoff placings. You, of all people, should know that. Having said that, MOST of the time, the best (strongest, toughest, most balanced) team usually wins the title. The Heat are the only recent exception to the rule that I can think of.
Judging LeBron's individual talent (or Kobe's) by how his team does, is like telling me that Stevie G wasn't world class until Istanbul. It's bollocks.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg876599#msg876599 date=1243443330]
If you took the best player away from each of the respective teams remaining, you'd rank them as such: 1. Denver. 2. Orlando. 3. LA. 4. Cleveland. The fact that LA and now Cleveland are such a force is testament to just how f#$!ing good Kobe and LeBron are... They are clearly the top two players in the league, and not by a short distance[/quote]
Whaaat? Denver without Carmelo Anthony? Orlando without Dwight Howard? Come on D - that is ridiculous. Carmelo's presence alone creates openings for his whole team - and Howard is just a machine.
Team is important, but the only 'team' without a star (like a Carmelo or Howard or Kobe or Lebron) that has won a title in the last two decades was Detroit.
I don't think anyone has said that - people are saying until he wins a championship, you can't compare him to Jordan.
If you took the best player away from each of the respective teams remaining, you'd rank them as such: 1. Denver. 2. Orlando. 3. LA. 4. Cleveland. The fact that LA and now Cleveland are such a force is testament to just how f#$!ing good Kobe and LeBron are... They are clearly the top two players in the league, and not by a short distance[/quote]
Whaaat? Denver without Carmelo Anthony? Orlando without Dwight Howard? Come on D - that is ridiculous. Carmelo's presence alone creates openings for his whole team - and Howard is just a machine.
Team is important, but the only 'team' without a star (like a Carmelo or Howard or Kobe or Lebron) that has won a title in the last two decades was Detroit.
I don't think anyone has said that - people are saying until he wins a championship, you can't compare him to Jordan.
Obviously none of the teams will be as good without their stars, but Cleveland would be miles behind the other 3 teams.
As good as Carmelo, and Howard are they are not in the same category as Lebron and Kobe. Those boys have the uncanny ability, like Jordan, to just say, screw my teammates, let's play 5 on 1, and win.
As good as Carmelo, and Howard are they are not in the same category as Lebron and Kobe. Those boys have the uncanny ability, like Jordan, to just say, screw my teammates, let's play 5 on 1, and win.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876606#msg876606 date=1243444752]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg876599#msg876599 date=1243443330]
If you took the best player away from each of the respective teams remaining, you'd rank them as such: 1. Denver. 2. Orlando. 3. LA. 4. Cleveland. The fact that LA and now Cleveland are such a force is testament to just how f#$!ing good Kobe and LeBron are... They are clearly the top two players in the league, and not by a short distance[/quote]
Whaaat? Denver without Carmelo Anthony? Orlando without Dwight Howard? Come on D - that is ridiculous. Carmelo's presence alone creates openings for his whole team - and Howard is just a machine.
Team is important, but the only 'team' without a star (like a Carmelo or Howard or Kobe or Lebron) that has won a title in the last two decades was Detroit.
I don't think anyone has said that - people are saying until he wins a championship, you can't compare him to Jordan.
[/quote]
Chauncey Billips, Avy? Kenyan Martin? Nene?
Denver would be the best team of the remaining four, if each of them lost their best player. What's you issue with that?
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg876599#msg876599 date=1243443330]
If you took the best player away from each of the respective teams remaining, you'd rank them as such: 1. Denver. 2. Orlando. 3. LA. 4. Cleveland. The fact that LA and now Cleveland are such a force is testament to just how f#$!ing good Kobe and LeBron are... They are clearly the top two players in the league, and not by a short distance[/quote]
Whaaat? Denver without Carmelo Anthony? Orlando without Dwight Howard? Come on D - that is ridiculous. Carmelo's presence alone creates openings for his whole team - and Howard is just a machine.
Team is important, but the only 'team' without a star (like a Carmelo or Howard or Kobe or Lebron) that has won a title in the last two decades was Detroit.
I don't think anyone has said that - people are saying until he wins a championship, you can't compare him to Jordan.
[/quote]
Chauncey Billips, Avy? Kenyan Martin? Nene?
Denver would be the best team of the remaining four, if each of them lost their best player. What's you issue with that?
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg876958#msg876958 date=1243459051]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876606#msg876606 date=1243444752]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg876599#msg876599 date=1243443330]
If you took the best player away from each of the respective teams remaining, you'd rank them as such: 1. Denver. 2. Orlando. 3. LA. 4. Cleveland. The fact that LA and now Cleveland are such a force is testament to just how f#$!ing good Kobe and LeBron are... They are clearly the top two players in the league, and not by a short distance[/quote]
Whaaat? Denver without Carmelo Anthony? Orlando without Dwight Howard? Come on D - that is ridiculous. Carmelo's presence alone creates openings for his whole team - and Howard is just a machine.
Team is important, but the only 'team' without a star (like a Carmelo or Howard or Kobe or Lebron) that has won a title in the last two decades was Detroit.
I don't think anyone has said that - people are saying until he wins a championship, you can't compare him to Jordan.
[/quote]
Chauncey Billips, Avy? Kenyan Martin? Nene?
Denver would be the best team of the remaining four, if each of them lost their best player. What's you issue with that?
[/quote]
Rashard Lewis, Hedo, Pietrus and when healthy, that lil chubby PG (who dislocated his shoulder). Just as strong a force ... and Pau Gasol is as dominating a player as Billups and far far more so than Martin.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg876606#msg876606 date=1243444752]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg876599#msg876599 date=1243443330]
If you took the best player away from each of the respective teams remaining, you'd rank them as such: 1. Denver. 2. Orlando. 3. LA. 4. Cleveland. The fact that LA and now Cleveland are such a force is testament to just how f#$!ing good Kobe and LeBron are... They are clearly the top two players in the league, and not by a short distance[/quote]
Whaaat? Denver without Carmelo Anthony? Orlando without Dwight Howard? Come on D - that is ridiculous. Carmelo's presence alone creates openings for his whole team - and Howard is just a machine.
Team is important, but the only 'team' without a star (like a Carmelo or Howard or Kobe or Lebron) that has won a title in the last two decades was Detroit.
I don't think anyone has said that - people are saying until he wins a championship, you can't compare him to Jordan.
[/quote]
Chauncey Billips, Avy? Kenyan Martin? Nene?
Denver would be the best team of the remaining four, if each of them lost their best player. What's you issue with that?
[/quote]
Rashard Lewis, Hedo, Pietrus and when healthy, that lil chubby PG (who dislocated his shoulder). Just as strong a force ... and Pau Gasol is as dominating a player as Billups and far far more so than Martin.
Not a chance.
Remove the inside threat that is Howard, and the Magic become the Mavericks... A bunch of outside jump shooters that defenders can nulify, knowing there's nothing down low for them to be concerned with.
Gasol is good, yes. But he doesn't like it up 'im (Garnett, last season, for example), and he's not tough enough to be a #1 star, relied upon to win games, night in night out.
Unlike, say, Chauncey Billups, who's already led a team to the title and been Playoffs MVP.
Sorry mate, but I'm not wrong on this one...
Remove the inside threat that is Howard, and the Magic become the Mavericks... A bunch of outside jump shooters that defenders can nulify, knowing there's nothing down low for them to be concerned with.
Gasol is good, yes. But he doesn't like it up 'im (Garnett, last season, for example), and he's not tough enough to be a #1 star, relied upon to win games, night in night out.
Unlike, say, Chauncey Billups, who's already led a team to the title and been Playoffs MVP.
Sorry mate, but I'm not wrong on this one...
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg877130#msg877130 date=1243469858]
Not a chance.
Remove the inside threat that is Howard, and the Magic become the Mavericks... A bunch of outside jump shooters that defenders can nulify, knowing there's nothing down low for them to be concerned with.
Gasol is good, yes. But he doesn't like it up 'im (Garnett, last season, for example), and he's not tough enough to be a #1 star, relied upon to win games, night in night out.
Unlike, say, Chauncey Billups, who's already led a team to the title and been Playoffs MVP.
Sorry mate, but I'm not wrong on this one...
[/quote]
eh? You mean the Mavericks that almost won the NBA championship?
You mean the Gasol that led Memphis, yes Memphis, to the playoffs? Have they come close to going back or being a 'above 0.500 team' since he left?
Ahhh so Chauncey is some star who led a bunch of misfits to the title ... Yah, Rasheed Wallace? shit. Tayshawn Prince? shit. Ben Wallace? shit. Rip Hamilton? shit. McDyess? shit. And I'm missing a few other stalwarts they had in that title winning team. The point is quite obvious, it wasn't like he was taking the Griz to the playoffs. I remember Chauncy when he was on poor teams - like Minnesota or Boston - ... yah, he really led well there. Once he got to Detroit, it changed ...
Not a chance.
Remove the inside threat that is Howard, and the Magic become the Mavericks... A bunch of outside jump shooters that defenders can nulify, knowing there's nothing down low for them to be concerned with.
Gasol is good, yes. But he doesn't like it up 'im (Garnett, last season, for example), and he's not tough enough to be a #1 star, relied upon to win games, night in night out.
Unlike, say, Chauncey Billups, who's already led a team to the title and been Playoffs MVP.
Sorry mate, but I'm not wrong on this one...
[/quote]
eh? You mean the Mavericks that almost won the NBA championship?
You mean the Gasol that led Memphis, yes Memphis, to the playoffs? Have they come close to going back or being a 'above 0.500 team' since he left?
Ahhh so Chauncey is some star who led a bunch of misfits to the title ... Yah, Rasheed Wallace? shit. Tayshawn Prince? shit. Ben Wallace? shit. Rip Hamilton? shit. McDyess? shit. And I'm missing a few other stalwarts they had in that title winning team. The point is quite obvious, it wasn't like he was taking the Griz to the playoffs. I remember Chauncy when he was on poor teams - like Minnesota or Boston - ... yah, he really led well there. Once he got to Detroit, it changed ...
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg877192#msg877192 date=1243486948]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg877130#msg877130 date=1243469858]
Not a chance.
Remove the inside threat that is Howard, and the Magic become the Mavericks... A bunch of outside jump shooters that defenders can nulify, knowing there's nothing down low for them to be concerned with.
Gasol is good, yes. But he doesn't like it up 'im (Garnett, last season, for example), and he's not tough enough to be a #1 star, relied upon to win games, night in night out.
Unlike, say, Chauncey Billups, who's already led a team to the title and been Playoffs MVP.
Sorry mate, but I'm not wrong on this one...
[/quote]
eh? You mean the Mavericks that almost won the NBA championship?
You mean the Gasol that led Memphis, yes Memphis, to the playoffs? Have they come close to going back or being a 'above 0.500 team' since he left?
Ahhh so Chauncey is some star who led a bunch of misfits to the title ... Yah, Rasheed Wallace? shit. Tayshawn Prince? shit. Ben Wallace? shit. Rip Hamilton? shit. McDyess? shit. And I'm missing a few other stalwarts they had in that title winning team. The point is quite obvious, it wasn't like he was taking the Griz to the playoffs. I remember Chauncy when he was on poor teams - like Minnesota or Boston - ... yah, he really led well there. Once he got to Detroit, it changed ...
[/quote]
What is it with you and US sports?
I mean the Mavericks that got really close once, and should have won it - queue conspiracy theories out the arse - before reverting to type (and jump shots) and bottling it. Again. And again.
Why? Becasue they don't have an iside presence that anybody fears, thus enabling defences to protect the perimiter in a more aggressive way than they would if the did have a low post threat. And THAT'S my point about Orland, less Howard. Jump shooting teams can work, but only if they have a low post threat to keep the perimiter defense honest.
Gasol got Memphis to the playoffs. True. 16 teams make the playoffs each year. He's a good player. I'm not saying that he's not. I'm saying he couldn't lead that team to greatness, a la Kobe.
Detroit had talent, unquestionably. But they were never even close to winning anything until Chauncey showed up and provided leadership. He is unquestionably "some star", my friend. He's amoung the best players and leaders in the NBA, and has been for several years.
But, you know what, Avy..? I give up.
You're right. About everything... I know nothing about anything to do with US sports, despite living here for nearly 20 years and watching it and listening to it, day in and day out for that time frame.
The Cowboys WILL win the next 12 Superbowls.
The Mavericks ARE the greatest team of this generation.
etc...
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=33674.msg877130#msg877130 date=1243469858]
Not a chance.
Remove the inside threat that is Howard, and the Magic become the Mavericks... A bunch of outside jump shooters that defenders can nulify, knowing there's nothing down low for them to be concerned with.
Gasol is good, yes. But he doesn't like it up 'im (Garnett, last season, for example), and he's not tough enough to be a #1 star, relied upon to win games, night in night out.
Unlike, say, Chauncey Billups, who's already led a team to the title and been Playoffs MVP.
Sorry mate, but I'm not wrong on this one...
[/quote]
eh? You mean the Mavericks that almost won the NBA championship?
You mean the Gasol that led Memphis, yes Memphis, to the playoffs? Have they come close to going back or being a 'above 0.500 team' since he left?
Ahhh so Chauncey is some star who led a bunch of misfits to the title ... Yah, Rasheed Wallace? shit. Tayshawn Prince? shit. Ben Wallace? shit. Rip Hamilton? shit. McDyess? shit. And I'm missing a few other stalwarts they had in that title winning team. The point is quite obvious, it wasn't like he was taking the Griz to the playoffs. I remember Chauncy when he was on poor teams - like Minnesota or Boston - ... yah, he really led well there. Once he got to Detroit, it changed ...
[/quote]
What is it with you and US sports?
I mean the Mavericks that got really close once, and should have won it - queue conspiracy theories out the arse - before reverting to type (and jump shots) and bottling it. Again. And again.
Why? Becasue they don't have an iside presence that anybody fears, thus enabling defences to protect the perimiter in a more aggressive way than they would if the did have a low post threat. And THAT'S my point about Orland, less Howard. Jump shooting teams can work, but only if they have a low post threat to keep the perimiter defense honest.
Gasol got Memphis to the playoffs. True. 16 teams make the playoffs each year. He's a good player. I'm not saying that he's not. I'm saying he couldn't lead that team to greatness, a la Kobe.
Detroit had talent, unquestionably. But they were never even close to winning anything until Chauncey showed up and provided leadership. He is unquestionably "some star", my friend. He's amoung the best players and leaders in the NBA, and has been for several years.
But, you know what, Avy..? I give up.
You're right. About everything... I know nothing about anything to do with US sports, despite living here for nearly 20 years and watching it and listening to it, day in and day out for that time frame.
The Cowboys WILL win the next 12 Superbowls.
The Mavericks ARE the greatest team of this generation.
etc...
Billups, as you've forgotten to mention, arrived with Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince ... Both were key to their run. But alas, give all the credit to Billups because you do know everything because you've been following the US sports for 20 years (you have me beat by 5 years admittedly).
The Mavericks chocked - I agree, though I think there were some 'MJ' treatment of Wade - which made his life easier. But he's that good, so in essence, he's earned it and c'est la vie (same with Kob, LeBron - that famous 'travel' last year etc).
best players? Ok, one of the best leaders I agree 100% but best players? Oh well, I guess he's top tier but I reserve 'best' for players like Duncan, Parker, LeBron etc ... I don't think he's in that league.
Inshallah ... but way to go extreme on the exaggeration when I offer an opinion that is different from yours. Alas, I didn't realize you had final word on 'Facts' wrt to US Sports. Should I apologize?
The Mavericks chocked - I agree, though I think there were some 'MJ' treatment of Wade - which made his life easier. But he's that good, so in essence, he's earned it and c'est la vie (same with Kob, LeBron - that famous 'travel' last year etc).
best players? Ok, one of the best leaders I agree 100% but best players? Oh well, I guess he's top tier but I reserve 'best' for players like Duncan, Parker, LeBron etc ... I don't think he's in that league.
Inshallah ... but way to go extreme on the exaggeration when I offer an opinion that is different from yours. Alas, I didn't realize you had final word on 'Facts' wrt to US Sports. Should I apologize?
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33674.msg877719#msg877719 date=1243523503]
Billups, as you've forgotten to mention, arrived with Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince ... Both were key to their run. But alas, give all the credit to Billups because you do know everything because you've been following the US sports for 20 years (you have me beat by 5 years admittedly).
The Mavericks chocked - I agree, though I think there were some 'MJ' treatment of Wade - which made his life easier. But he's that good, so in essence, he's earned it and c'est la vie (same with Kob, LeBron - that famous 'travel' last year etc).
best players? Ok, one of the best leaders I agree 100% but best players? Oh well, I guess he's top tier but I reserve 'best' for players like Duncan, Parker, LeBron etc ... I don't think he's in that league.
Inshallah ... but way to go extreme on the exaggeration when I offer an opinion that is different from yours. Alas, I didn't realize you had final word on 'Facts' wrt to US Sports. Should I apologize?
[/quote]
You don't need to apologize, mate. Just be more open minded from time to time.
You're FAR more blinded in your US sports opinions than you are on any LFC thoughts you share with us.
I'm not pretending to know everything about everything, but you NEVER listen to anything contrary to your opinion when it comes to sports over here...
This thread's a perfect example - I say Billups led the Pistons to a title. You say that he had talent around him, and that I'm giving him "all the credit". I'm not. I'm giving him the credit he deserves. That's all. The Pistons don't win that title without him. He wasn't the only piece, but he was the most integral piece... He DID lead them to the title, Avy. The Detroit players and the coaches say this themselves. That's a fact.
And I agree, he's not on the same level as those you name. But that's rarified air, my friend. I'm suggesting that if you list the top 15 to 20 players or so in the NBA, he's probably getting included in that conversation.
Likewise the Mavericks and Gasol, above. I didn't say either was shite - Never have, by the way. I used one to point out with jump shooting teams cannot succeed (win the title) without a bone fide inside threat, and the other to back up my point about removing Kobe from the Lakers.
Of course the Cowboys thing was silly... But c'mon - You were proclaiming them the team to beat in the NFC last summer, despite the fact they'd not won a single playoff game in over a decade. Not that they "could" win, but that they were, undoubtedly the team to be stopped. You wouldn't hear anything else...
You know I luv ya, brother - I apologize if I was short... Long few days at work and home this week.
But you also know that you don't f#$!ing budge when it comes to these topics.
Billups, as you've forgotten to mention, arrived with Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince ... Both were key to their run. But alas, give all the credit to Billups because you do know everything because you've been following the US sports for 20 years (you have me beat by 5 years admittedly).
The Mavericks chocked - I agree, though I think there were some 'MJ' treatment of Wade - which made his life easier. But he's that good, so in essence, he's earned it and c'est la vie (same with Kob, LeBron - that famous 'travel' last year etc).
best players? Ok, one of the best leaders I agree 100% but best players? Oh well, I guess he's top tier but I reserve 'best' for players like Duncan, Parker, LeBron etc ... I don't think he's in that league.
Inshallah ... but way to go extreme on the exaggeration when I offer an opinion that is different from yours. Alas, I didn't realize you had final word on 'Facts' wrt to US Sports. Should I apologize?
[/quote]
You don't need to apologize, mate. Just be more open minded from time to time.
You're FAR more blinded in your US sports opinions than you are on any LFC thoughts you share with us.
I'm not pretending to know everything about everything, but you NEVER listen to anything contrary to your opinion when it comes to sports over here...
This thread's a perfect example - I say Billups led the Pistons to a title. You say that he had talent around him, and that I'm giving him "all the credit". I'm not. I'm giving him the credit he deserves. That's all. The Pistons don't win that title without him. He wasn't the only piece, but he was the most integral piece... He DID lead them to the title, Avy. The Detroit players and the coaches say this themselves. That's a fact.
And I agree, he's not on the same level as those you name. But that's rarified air, my friend. I'm suggesting that if you list the top 15 to 20 players or so in the NBA, he's probably getting included in that conversation.
Likewise the Mavericks and Gasol, above. I didn't say either was shite - Never have, by the way. I used one to point out with jump shooting teams cannot succeed (win the title) without a bone fide inside threat, and the other to back up my point about removing Kobe from the Lakers.
Of course the Cowboys thing was silly... But c'mon - You were proclaiming them the team to beat in the NFC last summer, despite the fact they'd not won a single playoff game in over a decade. Not that they "could" win, but that they were, undoubtedly the team to be stopped. You wouldn't hear anything else...
You know I luv ya, brother - I apologize if I was short... Long few days at work and home this week.
But you also know that you don't f#$!ing budge when it comes to these topics.
Missed the end of the game but these conference finals almost have me caring about the NBA again. I feel a surge of interest on the verge of happening.
I thought the Boys would end that drought though D ... I just didn't realize how much issues they had, which is why I'm hoping for a 9-7 season this year at best. Lower expectations.
Don't get angry with me but ...
Obviously he led them, that's what a good point guard does. But I'm gonna stop there!
Don't get angry with me but ...
Obviously he led them, that's what a good point guard does. But I'm gonna stop there!
Wide shoulders? Not from carrying his team, but from carrying the weight of all of the NBA's advertising hype and premature comparisons in an effort to drive ratings in what has been a flagging sport economically.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33674.msg879164#msg879164 date=1243758802]
Wide shoulders? Not from carrying his team, but from carrying the weight of all of the NBA's advertising hype and premature comparisons in an effort to drive ratings in what has been a flagging sport economically.
[/quote]
A 38 point, 8 assist, 8 rebound average performance in the Conference finals suggests he's carrying both, amigo...
Wide shoulders? Not from carrying his team, but from carrying the weight of all of the NBA's advertising hype and premature comparisons in an effort to drive ratings in what has been a flagging sport economically.
[/quote]
A 38 point, 8 assist, 8 rebound average performance in the Conference finals suggests he's carrying both, amigo...
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33674.msg879164#msg879164 date=1243758802]
Wide shoulders? Not from carrying his team, but from carrying the weight of all of the NBA's advertising hype and premature comparisons in an effort to drive ratings in what has been a flagging sport economically.
[/quote]
*Melodic Piano music*
* Grainy black and white images*
'... NBA... Where thick-as-fuck tattoed black Americans throwing a ball into a hoop happens'
Wide shoulders? Not from carrying his team, but from carrying the weight of all of the NBA's advertising hype and premature comparisons in an effort to drive ratings in what has been a flagging sport economically.
[/quote]
*Melodic Piano music*
* Grainy black and white images*
'... NBA... Where thick-as-fuck tattoed black Americans throwing a ball into a hoop happens'
