Are we better than we thought?

[rurikbird]

So the consensus a few weeks ago was:

- Carvalho has no obvious place in the team and will surely be sold
- Van der Berg probably not good enough for EPL
- Tsimikas is expendable
- not clear where Gravenberch fits in, maybe he should go to Turkey
- we need to buy a 2nd GK if Kelleher leaves
- we badly need a DM

Now a few pre-season games is not enough to definitively refute those assumptions, but they have put a few of them into question, didn’t they? Carvalho is apparently a goal threat, even when nominally playing on the wing, VDB looks solid enough, Tsimikas has been excellent vs Arsenal and Man U, Gravvy came back and immediately put in a boss performance at #6, Jaros passes the ball like fucking Xabi Alonso (and making saves like Alisson) and the quasi double-pivot system means we now have a much larger pool of candidates for a nominal #6 spot - from Jones and Szoboszlai to Gravenberch and even Nyoni against Betis - not to mention Endo and MacAllister.

All the much talked about weak spots don’t look quite so weak anymore and we are still waiting for key players back. Imagine if Nunez comes back and starts scoring too - people would go mental. Anyway, any advice or strategies on how to cope with excitement and temper expectations? Because it’s becoming increasingly difficult…

 

[Brizzle]

It’s been nice to see loan returners looking good.

I like Jaros, but i wonder if he’d be just as unhappy being understudy as Kelleher is getting.

SVDB looks solid too. I’d be happy keeping if we were investing elsewhere.

Tsimikas is the one I’m torn on, i think it’s our weakest part of the squad.

Midfield looks a well stacked area but if money and options are there i think injecting a DM in there would be great. Probably requires selling one or two.

In general i think every player who needed to impress Slot has done, and that might be a new manager bounce we need from squad players.
L

 

[Squiggles]

The fresh slate gives squad players extra motivation to kick on and perform. We likely wouldn't have seen as good performances from some of them of Klopp stayed, particularly Carvalho, VDV, but also Grav and Tsimikas to some extent. Whether all established players come back and feed off the increased competitive energy is not known at this stage. The squad has done as well as anyone found could have but we're still entering the season with plenty of questions marks. We'll know a zillion things more in November at where this squad is and how Slot sees it.

I agree DM is the area we are weakest compared to our Rivals. From what I've seen Endo finished last season a bit flat and hasn't impressed on this tour. It's hard to match anyone close to Rodri but I suspect we'll need someone closer than we have. Hopefully Wataru comes back and smashes it as he did through large parts of last season. Given his age there's just more eyes on him than would be if he were 26. We all saw what a few years did to Fabinho and Henderson. It can be brutal.

 

[Judge Jules]

As rurik says in the OP it's too soon to form definitive views but, given the questions (mainly justified IMO) that most of us were asking about some of those players, it's been an encouraging start.

Time will tell on Endo but I'm optimistic, at least for a season or two while we look for (or groom from within our own ranks) a longer-term successor. He's kept improving over a long period and he's a nuggety little bugger who, I hope and expect, still has plenty in the tank.

 

[The Nomad]

Pre-season is pre-season

Just as important is it not to overreact to a 0-1 defeat.

Is it important to not get too carried away by a few wins.

 

[Hansern]

We have a better squad then what is given credit for I reckon, and it shows.
Loads of youngsters that are pushing and signings from last summer have adaptet.

Need to add quality and not quantity to take another step forward.

3 players in and we’re good to go.

 

[StevieM]

It’s almost as if there a reason we’re not spending willy-nilly bring in loads of new players.

Delighted Carvalho has started to look the part - he’s certainly making it look like the interest in Gordon will cool if the price doesn’t drop down a little.

It’s looking entirely possible that Quansah starts the season as Virgil’s partner, which I’m fine with if we want to take the risk. Sepp & Ibou are solid backups that can play either side and will rightly push Quansah for that starting role.

Interesting to see how CJ does - he’s a similar type build to Matt’s Weifer, so I wonder if Slot will develop him as a 6/8 DM & linking player - the little change Slot has made from Klopp seems to be that staggered double pivot vs a solo 6 - which should make us a more solid unit - the more I think about it the more I’m leaning towards not needing a specialised 6 as Slot will want his midfielders to rotate positionally - and we got CJ, Mac, Gravy & Slobs who can do that, with Badger, Morton & Nyoni coming through.

Harvey still feels a little lightweight for a deeper role, but he has the ability & workrate to do it.

I agree though - if we can get one of the forwards firing in the centre, we’ll be good.

The only issue, and I mentioned it before, is cutting out slack passing round the back and I reckon Slot thinks we’re still hitting too many long balls.

 

[Modo]

I agree with most of it, but its still just pre season. Slot is going to have to make some tough decisions

 

[Markeh]

the preseason spectacles are on!

i’m not allowing this to sway me on Kostas or Carvalho, although i believe redemption is still possible for the latter.

Harvey and Nyoni have been impressive but again there’s the fear they’ve been showing their swagger against sides that aren’t ready

for me it’s still clear we’re going to be in for a frustrating season with Mo, creatively great but much less of an individual threat

I can post more of that helps bring you down

 

[Woland]

I think we were lucky not to get bummed last night after giving the ball away for fun all game. It's only cos Manure are shite, our keepers are good, and we got all the luck. Often we wouldnt win that game at all, never mind 3-0.

I'll take it, but I don't think these games are evidence of too much, and it would be weird if they were. New system is going to take a while to settle.

 

[Modo]

Apparently Carvalho wants to start and that's just not gonna happen as long as Diaz and Gakpo are at the club.

The LB position is still a problem area.
Robbo in decline and Tsimikas backing him up doesn't fill me with confidence.

The double pivot midfield means that we might not need a DM, but I wouldn't mind a bigger, stronger more dynamic defensive midfielder. Macca is great option, but I wish we could find another Fabs.
Is Gravy the other option? Not sure.
Jones however, ain't it. He will cost us goals if he plays there. I'm sure of it.

Where's Salah's back up? It sure isn't Doak, who I believe is talented but needs to play regularly. Definitely needs to work on his left foot if he wants to start on the right.

So nothing has changed for me really.
We should be looking for a LB, a DM and a RW.
Sadly I don't think we will be signing anyone.

And we still have 3 valuable players with a year left on their contract.

 

[binomial]

The problem is fans are very fickle, never ever stick to their guns. Their opinions change at the flick of a light switch. Had we come away with no wins instead of 3, this place would’ve turned to rubble.

Look at the reality. 2 and a half months ago we finished 3rd on 82 points, we did that overcoming numerous blatant VAR fuck ups against us and during 1 stage we were dealing with as many as 12 first team players out. That doesn’t happen unless you’re a very good side. As besides Matip leaving and Sepp taking his place we’re the exact same side personnel wise.

Yes we need some signings to kick on but there isn’t 3 teams in the league better let alone 4 to worry about not getting CL again next season.

 

[StevieM]

The problem is fans are very fickle, never ever stick to their guns. Their opinions change at the flick of a light switch. Had we come away with no wins instead of 3, this place would’ve turned to rubble.

Look at the reality. 2 and a half months ago we finished 3rd on 82 points, we did that overcoming numerous blatant VAR fuck ups against us and during 1 stage we were dealing with as many as 12 first team players out. That doesn’t happen unless you’re a very good side. As besides Matip leaving and Sepp taking his place we’re the exact same side personnel wise.

Yes we need some signings to kick on but there isn’t 3 teams in the league better let alone 4 to worry about not getting CL again next season.

We’ve added Jaros, Morton & Carvalho to last years squad.

 

[binomial]

We’ve added Jaros, Morton & Carvalho to last years squad.

True but we’re yet to see how much a factor replacing Adrian for Jaros, Thiago for Morton will have on our season given Adrian and Thiago had virtually no game time last season likewise adding Carvalho as an extra attacker. For me the big squad shape up as it stands heading into this season is Sepp (trying to) reach the standards Matip left behind.

Our starting XI will certainly be what it was last season with maybe Gakpo taking Diaz’s place.

 

[tombrown]

So, what you are saying is that we would be better off replacing starters than deadwood?

 

[rurikbird]

the preseason spectacles are on!

i’m not allowing this to sway me on Kostas or Carvalho, although i believe redemption is still possible for the latter.

The Boy and Nyoni have been impressive but again there’s the fear they’ve been showing their swagger against sides that aren’t ready

for me it’s still clear we’re going to be in for a frustrating season with Mo, creatively great but much less of an individual threat

I can post more of that helps being you down

The site needs a new Hal, so feel free to step into his shoes!

 

[Fabio]

I said in another thread that I think we could do better than last year with no signings, primarily down to the change of tactics favouring our existing players

 

[Glen C]

Last nights result doesn't reflect the game at all. We could have just as easily lost last night with the amount of chances we gave away. Same as against arsenal, giving away big chances. Yes its a good squad but we need additions at CB and DM if want to securely get top 4.

 

[iseered]

Time to dust off this old thing

 

[Hyena]

Arne Slot's not fooled either. He knows we were dead lucky against Utd and Arsenal.

Rashford could have had a hattrick.

But we'vegot the confidence and the drive going, that's the important bit. A step in the right direction and everyone pulling together.

 

[Red Bird]

We need our players to stop giving the ball away— just as we kept doing last season. Then we need to work on taking our chances. That, more than just bringing new players, has to be the focus of the new coaching staff.

 

[StevieM]

Arne Slot's not fooled either. He knows we were dead lucky against Utd and Arsenal.

Rashford could have had a hattrick.

But we'vegot the confidence and the drive going, that's the important bit. A step in the right direction and everyone pulling together.

Rashford’s shit though and makes Darwin look clinical.

He’s has one good season.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Just seen the highlights.

It's not quite total football. Total football requires players to interchange positions frequently, which is its hallmark. So far, i see some interchanging but there is some structure being maintained. Maybe when the rest of the main players return, things will change.

I'm really interested to see where or how Trent will fit into the new system, because if used properly, can be our Pirlo. There are some similarities with Ancelotti's Milan too, with the way we are trying to control possession, but Milan relied a lot on Pirlo as the main playmaker. Slot's more a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 type of guy. I can see us setting up 4-2-3-1 with Trent as one of the deep lying playmakers and Endo as our 6 for now, until we get a much better one.

It looks like he's trying to replicate Pep's Barca teams. Tiki-taka. But then again, it's not quite either. I'm not sure, things will be clearer after the first 5-10 games. But the concepts of tiki-taka are there on display. More possession play and fluid passing. Slower too.

There are also a lot of elements that remind me of Liverpool's 70s and 80s pass-and-move teams.

Still prefer heavy metal football though. This is more like orchestral football or something. Effective but a bit of a yawn.

Will be funny to see how Chaos will play as the striker in this system.

 

[tombrown]

Time to dust off this old thing

NO!!!!

that's a manc invention, and should never see the light of day in here

 

[iseered]

NO!!!!

that's a manc invention, and should never see the light of day in here

It's like the n-word, we own it now

 

[localny]

Great post. We’ll see I guess but this is as good a pre season as you can hope to get with lots of the squad yes being given a platform to impress. Kelliher looked terrific as well.

The reason we finished third last year (for me) was our lack of natural goalscorers. If we had some natural poachers we would have won or come close to winning the league.

Fix that and who knows - a team can have a Gakpo, Diaz, Darwin, Injury Prone Jota and an Aging Salah in their squads and do well. But not all 5 at the same time. Last year showed us that.

We badly need to sign someone who can take their chances.

 

[moron]

Last nights result doesn't reflect the game at all. We could have just as easily lost last night with the amount of chances we gave away. Same as against arsenal, giving away big chances. Yes its a good squad but we need additions at CB and DM if want to securely get top 4.

This is the impression I got as well, and also the stats behind both games suggest this. Agree on the need for a proper DM, not makeshift 8/10 made into 6's.

 

[bluebell]

I think there's still things for Slot to work out..
We are very top heavy with now Fabs part of that group. I still don't know where Trent will play and does his inclusion weaken the defense?
I am still not convinced by Endo and our LBs.
As it currently stands I think top 4 is definitely more than likely.

 

[binomial]

Damn, I was kinda hoping Slot would've figured it all out by now despite having 7-8 of his regulars missing.....

But it would appear he still has some work to do, holy shit. We're totally fucked.

 

[Modo]

It's honestly difficult to say anything conclusively based on the pre season we've had.
I'd like to see how we play when the big boys are back in the line up.