Is there too much money in Football?

[Ijg]

I was having this never ending debate about the money involved in the game of football. Is it truly fair that footballers get paid more than say, the armed forces, healthcare, police, fire service and gps etc.

Is the game too far gone that any attempt to change it would ruin it?

If you wanted to, and could, what would you do to change the money in football? Salary caps? Sponsorship caps?

Discuss.

 

[Squiggles]

Of course footballers earn far more than they deserve compared to the rest of society, but that's true a thousand times over. Famous actors and actresses and musicians are very rarely held to the same sort of hysterical, jealous scrutiny as footballers are, but they remain entirely comparable.

And like the other industries, footballers are the stars of the show - without them what are you left with? So whilst money is in the game, they deserve the majority of the cash generated.

Although Rafael Benitez took things waaaay to far.

Anyone who has a remote interest in Rugby has seen that the result of introducing salary caps is that all of the best talent in the league flocks off to somewhere else very quickly. This should be completely avoided. Clubs simply have to act far more responsible to ensure they don't run up too much debt, but also to remain as competitive.

 

[cobrastatus]

this is a silly argument, we don't pay people based on what they deserve, we pay them based on their talent (scarcity) and OUR attention. Humans need entertainment, just look around you at all the various venues we value more than people who "deserve" it, and how much money those industries make. We put a massive fucking value upon being entertained, and that's pretty much the only reason why entertainers get paid so much.

You may as well ask us to stop being human if you want to solve this problem.

And all those professions you listed that "deserve" more money than footballers, the only one that requires more of you than "have a pulse and be fit" is GPs/health care. Think about that.

 

[keniget]

Footballers do deserve the amounts they get paid - they're better than everyone else at what they do.

The top 1% in every industry get paid a fortune.

 

[5Times]

In terms of revenue created due to their effort and talent, I'd say they deserve it, if not more.
I think the issue of your argument should have been about soldiers, surgeons etc being underpaid.

 

[refugee]

Supply and demand.

If you want them to get paid less, stop buying merchandise etc.

 

[Ryan]

The Daily Mail of threads.

 

[Richey]

No it probably isn't fair that footballers get paid so much but life isn't fair is it?

They are fortunate to be able to be in that position, are at the very top of their profession and given that it is such a lucrative industry then I would probably prefer to see the players get the money.

That is what annoys me when people talk about caps on salaries or bonuses or whatever. For starters it is money paid to an individual by a private company, so its not really anyone else's business to start wading in and telling them it needs to be reduced.

Also, would it really benefit society if footballers got paid less? Its not as if the football clubs will see their wage bill go down and decide they might as well give the money to charity or to the local hospital. They will keep it won't they?

Meanwhile we would have players getting paid less, and therefore paying less tax, and buying less and therefore paying less VAT, stamp duty etc.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=45828.msg1353763#msg1353763 date=1308822616]

Also, would it really benefit society if footballers got paid less? Its not as if the football clubs will see their wage bill go down and decide they might as well give the money to charity or to the local hospital. They will keep it won't they?

[/quote]

Well, if footballers' salaries were not as excessive, wouldn't there be a chance that match day tickets be more affordable for more people?

 

[Frogfish]

I think Warner & Bin Hammam will now say there is not enough.

 

[cobrastatus]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=45828.msg1353775#msg1353775 date=1308823308]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=45828.msg1353763#msg1353763 date=1308822616]

Also, would it really benefit society if footballers got paid less? Its not as if the football clubs will see their wage bill go down and decide they might as well give the money to charity or to the local hospital. They will keep it won't they?

[/quote]

Well, if footballers' salaries were not as excessive, wouldn't there be a chance that match day tickets be more affordable for more people?

[/quote]

They are already affordable, just look at the stadiums, how often are they full or nearly full? This thread sucks.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=45828.msg1353775#msg1353775 date=1308823308]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=45828.msg1353763#msg1353763 date=1308822616]

Also, would it really benefit society if footballers got paid less? Its not as if the football clubs will see their wage bill go down and decide they might as well give the money to charity or to the local hospital. They will keep it won't they?

[/quote]

Well, if footballers' salaries were not as excessive, wouldn't there be a chance that match day tickets be more affordable for more people?

[/quote]

Possibly yes, but do the big clubs have a huge problem selling their tickets now? Not that I have noticed.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Its Footballers wages and club debt that are the big problem. Inflated transfers don't really matter that much, that money just keeps recycling itself through football.
Interest payment on debt and players wages money filters out of the "circle".

Abramovitch and Mansour are doing their best to balance it up though.

That of course could be shot down as total bollocks 😉


regards

 

[Ijg]

Just case in point, the point I was making were just examples and not the opinion of my own. My personal opinion is that if the money is in the industry and they're helping to make a vast amount of income for the businesses (football clubs) they should get a fair slice. Same as any other industry/business.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353576#msg1353576 date=1308810544]
Of course footballers earn far more than they deserve compared to the rest of society, but that's true a thousand times over. Famous actors and actresses and musicians are very rarely held to the same sort of hysterical, jealous scrutiny as footballers are, but they remain entirely comparable.

And like the other industries, footballers are the stars of the show - without them what are you left with? So whilst money is in the game, they deserve the majority of the cash generated.

Although Rafael Benitez took things waaaay to far.

Anyone who has a remote interest in Rugby has seen that the result of introducing salary caps is that all of the best talent in the league flocks off to somewhere else very quickly. This should be completely avoided. Clubs simply have to act far more responsible to ensure they don't run up too much debt, but also to remain as competitive.
[/quote]

you honestly think benitez was in charge of negotiating players' contracts? In charge of 55% of the club's turnover?

not a chance.

 

[Squiggles]

The manager must have an influence, especially as Benitez became more and more powerful at the club.

After Parry had gone, and H&G were in the States, who else was there?

 

[the_khl]

There's too much money in oil.

 

[refugee]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353971#msg1353971 date=1308834554]
The manager must have an influence, especially as Benitez became more and more powerful at the club.

After Parry had gone, and H&G were in the States, who else was there?
[/quote]

No one.

H&G left their investment solely in the hands of Benitez.

There is no way that a club like Liverpool (turnover in 07-08 of around 150 Million)would have an accountant or team of accountants or an accounting firm closely regulating the finances because that would be stupid.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45828.msg1353972#msg1353972 date=1308834643]
There's too much money in oil.
[/quote]

Good point that's why the yanks are here, they heard there was money in it and invaded us for our Football, we are like Iraq

regards

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=refugee link=topic=45828.msg1353977#msg1353977 date=1308834981]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353971#msg1353971 date=1308834554]
The manager must have an influence, especially as Benitez became more and more powerful at the club.

After Parry had gone, and H&G were in the States, who else was there?
[/quote]

No one.

H&G left their investment solely in the hands of Benitez.

There is no way that a club like Liverpool (turnover in 07-08 of around 150 Million)would have an accountant or team of accountants or an accounting firm closely regulating the finances because that would be stupid.
[/quote]

Accountants meet with the players agents? The Manager has no input?

The simple fact is that the wages given out to Maxi, Degen and Jova were obviously going to be detrimental to the long term interests of the club, and it's something Benitez could have prevented if he weren't thinking solely of his own short-term problems.

 

[refugee]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353988#msg1353988 date=1308835817]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=45828.msg1353977#msg1353977 date=1308834981]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353971#msg1353971 date=1308834554]
The manager must have an influence, especially as Benitez became more and more powerful at the club.

After Parry had gone, and H&G were in the States, who else was there?
[/quote]

No one.

H&G left their investment solely in the hands of Benitez.

There is no way that a club like Liverpool (turnover in 07-08 of around 150 Million) would have an accountant or team of accountants or an accounting firm closely regulating the finances because that would be stupid.
[/quote]

Accountants meet with the players agents?
[/quote]

No of course not. The accountants let the club spend as much money as they want and then they add it all up at the end of the year and produce a nice chart to show the shareholders.

Rafa was allowed to pay the players anything he wanted.

 

[Le Chacal]

Benitez had a say in players contracts negociations. He gained full control of technical side in his last contract.
He will never get so much power in any other club. Thats why he left Valencia and got fired from Inter.
Blaming the Yanks was sooo easy.

 

[Woland]

It's like asking if there's too much sponk in porn.

You mightn't like seeing three guys covering some poor birds kipper in honky tonk, but without all that cocksnot flying around, the rest of it doesn't happen.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=refugee link=topic=45828.msg1353991#msg1353991 date=1308835970]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353988#msg1353988 date=1308835817]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=45828.msg1353977#msg1353977 date=1308834981]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353971#msg1353971 date=1308834554]
The manager must have an influence, especially as Benitez became more and more powerful at the club.

After Parry had gone, and H&G were in the States, who else was there?
[/quote]

No one.

H&G left their investment solely in the hands of Benitez.

There is no way that a club like Liverpool (turnover in 07-08 of around 150 Million) would have an accountant or team of accountants or an accounting firm closely regulating the finances because that would be stupid.
[/quote]

Accountants meet with the players agents?
[/quote]

No of course not. The accountants let the club spend as much money as they want and then they add it all up at the end of the year and produce a nice chart to show the shareholders.

Rafa was allowed to pay the players anything he wanted.
[/quote]

yep, obviously true. he also employed christian purslow in the unusual corporate position of 'MD of popping to the shops to get him a 1/4 of jelly babies every half an hour' - another strange strategic error by rafeal benitez, imo.

 

[refugee]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=45828.msg1354001#msg1354001 date=1308836856]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=45828.msg1353991#msg1353991 date=1308835970]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353988#msg1353988 date=1308835817]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=45828.msg1353977#msg1353977 date=1308834981]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45828.msg1353971#msg1353971 date=1308834554]
The manager must have an influence, especially as Benitez became more and more powerful at the club.

After Parry had gone, and H&G were in the States, who else was there?
[/quote]

No one.

H&G left their investment solely in the hands of Benitez.

There is no way that a club like Liverpool (turnover in 07-08 of around 150 Million) would have an accountant or team of accountants or an accounting firm closely regulating the finances because that would be stupid.
[/quote]

Accountants meet with the players agents?
[/quote]

No of course not. The accountants let the club spend as much money as they want and then they add it all up at the end of the year and produce a nice chart to show the shareholders.

Rafa was allowed to pay the players anything he wanted.
[/quote]

yep, obviously true. he also employed christian purslow in the unusual corporate position of 'MD of popping to the shops to get him a 1/4 of jelly babies every half an hour' - another strange strategic error by rafeal benitez, imo.
[/quote]

I heard that he gave Purslow a signed blank check to ensure that he could pay for the jelly babies straight away, although Purslow was instructed to send the check stub to the accountants before the end of the year.

 

[peterhague]

hmmm, that's another thing i take issue with - fine in principle, but the accountants in question was a little known wirral practice 'Montse & Benitez LLP' whom benitez had recommended the audit committee (headed by claudia benitez - coincidence?) appoint as auditors in july 2009. There have been suggestions that this practice was not of an adequate size to take on the business - and even that there may have been some undiagnosed conflict of interests between it and benitez, although that has so far remained unproven.

but i have my suspicions!

 

[Avmenon]

The fact that too much money was spent on transfer fees and wages for dogshit players was due to Rick Parry and Christian Purslow; the fact that Rafa brought in these dogshit players who *might* have come on lower fees and wages was due to Rafa wanting to bring in dogshit players.

Those are facts; but the litany of 'spendtobuy' 'ionlywantedKeanewithBarry' 'Rafadidntbotherwithanyinterestsbesideshisown' are just opinions.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45828.msg1354036#msg1354036 date=1308838851]
The fact that too much money was spent on transfer fees and wages for dogshit players was due to Rick Parry and Christian Purslow; the fact that Rafa brought in these dogshit players who *might* have come on lower fees and wages was due to Rafa wanting to bring in dogshit players.

Those are facts; but the litany of 'spendtobuy' 'ionlywantedKeanewithBarry' 'Rafadidntbotherwithanyinterestsbesideshisown' are just opinions.
[/quote]

He's had terribly, terribly bad luck with his bosses hasn't he? He didn't get on with any of the ones at Liverpool or any of the ones at other clubs either. What are the chances that he would just get stuck with all the arsehole ones who tried to undermine him and fucked everything up eh?

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45828.msg1354036#msg1354036 date=1308838851]
The fact that too much money was spent on transfer fees and wages for dogshit players was due to Rick Parry and Christian Purslow; the fact that Rafa brought in these dogshit players who *might* have come on lower fees and wages was due to Rafa wanting to bring in dogshit players.

Those are facts; but the litany of 'spendtobuy' 'ionlywantedKeanewithBarry' 'Rafadidntbotherwithanyinterestsbesideshisown' are just opinions.
[/quote]

you seem to be shifting - possibly subconciously - the argument on to territory it's easier to be critical of benitez from: wages>wages of poor benitez signings>transfer fees of poor benitez signings>poor benitez signings.

the debate was about whether benitez had much influence over the club's wages budget. i suspect you know you can't win (ie be critical of him) on that point but can't resist jumping in to any argument about the man so have to irrelevantly bring up other, more general, criticisms to compensate. same goes for Richey.

 

[Avmenon]

Not really.

I was defending Rafa from the assertion that he was to blame for the transfer and wage monies in that he bore culpability for the wasted transfer fees and wages. In so much as he was the one who brought in the players, that much is true.

But he clearly cannot be blamed for the sheer size of the fees and wages wasted as that would have been negotiated between these 'football players' (I use the term fairly loosely), their agents, and of course Liverpool's management.

I don't know if they would have still come here had Liverpool conducted the negotiations more strictly. Maybe, maybe not.

It's possible Rafa might have backed down had he known the size of the monies being expended on these players; it's also possible we'd be talking about milk bottles, sofas and lampshades.

There's plenty for me to criticise Rafa for; I don't need to beat him with this assertion that he's to blame for paying Milan JOvanovic 120,000 pounds to sit on the bench. I blame him for bringing him in.

If you want to talk about the litany of excuses that's been used to justify Rafa's transfer policy, be my guest. That wasn't the crux of my post.