Kuyt

[mark1975]

I don't want to give the guy a shoeing, His goal record last season was pretty decent in the league for his first Premiership campaign, and his workrate is unquestionable.

So why do I feel a touch let down?

He's supposed to have been a step up from Crouch, someone who could do the things Crouch does but with more mobility and more goal threat. The former is perhaps true, his unselfishness proven only a week ago when he set up Agger's goal against South China. We've all wanted to see him be more selfish, but when he has, there's been little threat on the oppositions goal. His shots rarely troubled Jamo on Friday (apart from that great header) and I just never felt confident that he'd work the keeper, and even less so that he'd get a goal.

I like the lad, a true pro, he loves the club, and he works his bollocks off, all traits I like to see in a Liverpool player. I just don't feel that class and extra cutting edge is there.

This is a big season for Dirk, I hope he proves my doubts wrong.

 

[Whitey85]

He does lack that bit of spark that the top strikers have. We got what we paid for. Dirk is a £10m max striker. I just hope and pray Torres can signing can have a knock on effect and improve Kuyt's game.

 

[robinhood]

I like Dirk, but his touch and finishing are fcuking rubbish.

He's just not good enough for the first team, really.

Torres isn't a great finisher either, but his ingenuity, skill, pace and whatnot mean that he should score more.

Dirk is a clever player - he trys to do the right things, he just can't really pull them off any better than I can.

I'm so fcuking sick of crap finishers, though, I think I might have a pretty angry season.

 

[mark1975]

At the end of the day I've argued for Crouch that as a centre forward, traditionally you normally only get 15 goals max, and Kuyt is a similar sort of player, I just don't have any confidence in him in front of goal though, and while it's nice to see him teeing up his team mates, it's kind of a dull role, there's little class involved, just a willingness to work hard.

 

[Delinquent]

I'm gonna stick to my guns and say he'll improve on last seasons tally. That said, he was the first name on the team sheet for Feyenoord which is a luxury he simply won't get here. He'll need to endure Rafa's rotation and keep his concentration about him to do well. I also hope that with Torres here, he'll get more space as defenders will have more to think about.

Thus far, I don't think Kuyt has done himself justice. He is a very true striker of the ball and was a very composed player at Feyenoord. We haven't seen that here, unfortunately. Granted, space is at a premium in this league but I still think he's capable of better. What's more, we had very little in the way of attacking threats last year. Kuyt is a player who always plays with his head up and had a brilliant assist rate in Holland. With the likes of Babel and Yossi this year, hopefully he'll have more options around him to really exploit that. And when he's not laying the ball off perhaps they'll be more room for him to be selfish.

I certainly hope so. If noone had guessed already, I REALLY want him to do well here.

 

[Glock21]

All this came after three pre-season games. Am i correct?

The fact that Kuyt been in a very good position to score is good enough for me. Goals will come. You can bang in 246 thousand goals in three pre-season games but when it comes to actual games like in the Premiership you can't score for shit. That's the problem there.

What i saw in this pre-season games is that Rafael play him in a more advance role which we all expected. So its obvious that Rafael trusted him to deliver the goods this season. Him and Torres will work as a partner together and i have full confidence in him to score more than 15 goals in all competitions this season.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg326510#msg326510 date=1185785736]

I certainly hope so. If noone had guessed already, I REALLY want him to do well here.
[/quote]

I do too mate, I don't like knocking him because he really does work his ass off, and I like players who do that, I just expect something more.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg326510#msg326510 date=1185785736]
He is a very true striker of the ball[/quote]

I don't agree.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg326517#msg326517 date=1185785877]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg326510#msg326510 date=1185785736]
He is a very true striker of the ball[/quote]

I don't agree.
[/quote]

Ok.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg326517#msg326517 date=1185785877]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg326510#msg326510 date=1185785736]
He is a very true striker of the ball[/quote]

I don't agree.
[/quote]

You can disagree till your face turn blue and it won't change the fact that he's a true striker of the ball. Goals he scored proved you wrong.

 

[themn]

Is it too early for popcorn ?

 

[robinhood]

What exactly does it mean?

He hits it hard? It goes where he wants it to?

The former is true, the latter is most patently NOT.

 

[Grungefuttock]

His shooting was just fine at Feyenoord. If he's been more wayward for us, that's due to a whole number of factors - new club, new country, different role, perhaps trying a bit too hard at times. We berate the Mancs for imagining football began in 1992 - Kuyt's career didn't begin when he signed for us either. He'll be fine.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg326515#msg326515 date=1185785851]
All this came after three pre-season games. Am i correct?

The fact that Kuyt been in a very good position to score is good enough for me. Goals will come. You can bang in 246 thousand goals in three pre-season games but when it comes to actual games like in the Premiership you can't score for shit. That's the problem there.

What i saw in this pre-season games is that Rafael play him in a more advance role which we all expected. So its obvious that Rafael trusted him to deliver the goods this season. Him and Torres will work as a partner together and i have full confidence in him to score more than 15 goals in all competitions this season.
[/quote]


Just like Momo can have a MOM performance in pre-season and then return to his piss poor passing and his couldn't-hit-a-cows-arse-with-a-banjo shooting in the real season.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=14248.msg326526#msg326526 date=1185786399]
His shooting was just fine at Feyenoord. If he's been more wayward for us, that's due to a whole number of factors - new club, new country, different role, perhaps trying a bit too hard at times. We berate the Mancs for imagining football began in 1992 - Kuyt's career didn't begin when he signed for us either. He'll be fine.
[/quote]

You can tell just by watching him strike the ball that he isn't a gifted finisher.

We need a player who can strike the ball like Crespo, Eto'o, Fowler, RVN, Huntelaar, Henry etc

 

[Grungefuttock]

Rafa doesn't play with 20-goals-a-season guys up front. He wants a more all-round game from his front players, with goals included but not the be-all and end-all. There's a legitimate argument to be had about whether that style will win the Prem, but Kuyt will get enough and more than enough goals for Rafa's system.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=14248.msg326527#msg326527 date=1185786410]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg326515#msg326515 date=1185785851]
All this came after three pre-season games. Am i correct?

The fact that Kuyt been in a very good position to score is good enough for me. Goals will come. You can bang in 246 thousand goals in three pre-season games but when it comes to actual games like in the Premiership you can't score for shit. That's the problem there.

What i saw in this pre-season games is that Rafael play him in a more advance role which we all expected. So its obvious that Rafael trusted him to deliver the goods this season. Him and Torres will work as a partner together and i have full confidence in him to score more than 15 goals in all competitions this season.
[/quote]


Just like Momo can have a MOM performance in pre-season and then return to his piss poor passing and his couldn't-hit-a-cows-arse-with-a-banjo shooting in the real season.
[/quote]

Momo's game is not purely based on scoring goals son. He's a box to box midfielder. So lets keep it to that. He has improved a lot in passing the ball since he came here.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=14248.msg326526#msg326526 date=1185786399]
His shooting was just fine at Feyenoord. If he's been more wayward for us, that's due to a whole number of factors - new club, new country, different role, perhaps trying a bit too hard at times. We berate the Mancs for imagining football began in 1992 - Kuyt's career didn't begin when he signed for us either. He'll be fine.
[/quote]

Very well said. Agree with it all.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg326524#msg326524 date=1185786212]
What exactly does it mean?

He hits it hard? It goes where he wants it to?

The former is true, the latter is most patently NOT.
[/quote]

I watched him for three years at Feyenoord. You obviously didn't. He was a very good striker of the ball in his time for them; you don't just lose that in a season. If I was judging him based on his time with us, I'd probably agree with you. However, I'm not, so I don't.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=14248.msg326532#msg326532 date=1185786732]
Rafa doesn't play with 20-goals-a-season guys up front. He wants a more all-round game from his front players, with goals included but not the be-all and end-all. There's a legitimate argument to be had about whether that style will win the Prem, but Kuyt will get enough and more than enough goals for Rafa's system.
[/quote]

Well, Rafa's being silly, then.

We play a pretty rigid setup; we don't play free-flowing football that pulls opposition defenders all over the place.

Consequently, we need a pretty good finisher to take a lot of the chances we create. And we don't fcuking have one.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg326535#msg326535 date=1185786756]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=14248.msg326527#msg326527 date=1185786410]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg326515#msg326515 date=1185785851]
All this came after three pre-season games. Am i correct?

The fact that Kuyt been in a very good position to score is good enough for me. Goals will come. You can bang in 246 thousand goals in three pre-season games but when it comes to actual games like in the Premiership you can't score for shit. That's the problem there.

What i saw in this pre-season games is that Rafael play him in a more advance role which we all expected. So its obvious that Rafael trusted him to deliver the goods this season. Him and Torres will work as a partner together and i have full confidence in him to score more than 15 goals in all competitions this season.
[/quote]


Just like Momo can have a MOM performance in pre-season and then return to his piss poor passing and his couldn't-hit-a-cows-arse-with-a-banjo shooting in the real season.
[/quote]

Momo's game is not purely based on scoring goals son. He's a box to box midfielder. So lets keep it to that. He has improved a lot in passing the ball since he came here.
[/quote]

No, it hasn't lad. If anything it's got worse. Box to box midfielders are able to do something when they get to the opponents box - he isn't. So I'll keep it to that OK?

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg326537#msg326537 date=1185786811]I watched him for three years at Feyenoord. You obviously didn't. He was a very good striker of the ball in his time for them; you don't just lose that in a season. If I was judging him based on his time with us, I'd probably agree with you. However, I'm not, so I don't.
[/quote]

Well, I guess I'm not in a postion to argue with that, but I believe you're misguided, and it was just crap defending and things that made it easy for him to score.

Some players have compilation videos full of classy goals and finishes. Kuyt isn't one of those players. And it shows.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=14248.msg326537#msg326537 date=1185786811]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg326524#msg326524 date=1185786212]
What exactly does it mean?

He hits it hard? It goes where he wants it to?

The former is true, the latter is most patently NOT.
[/quote]

I watched him for three years at Feyenoord. You obviously didn't. He was a very good striker of the ball in his time for them; you don't just lose that in a season. If I was judging him based on his time with us, I'd probably agree with you. However, I'm not, so I don't.
[/quote]

Del, to be fair, all that could be said about Morientes.

 

[Sunny]

I still think he'll score a few more this year (Kuyt). In fact I'd hazard a guess he'll score more than Torres.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=14248.msg326540#msg326540 date=1185786859]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg326535#msg326535 date=1185786756]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=14248.msg326527#msg326527 date=1185786410]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=14248.msg326515#msg326515 date=1185785851]
All this came after three pre-season games. Am i correct?

The fact that Kuyt been in a very good position to score is good enough for me. Goals will come. You can bang in 246 thousand goals in three pre-season games but when it comes to actual games like in the Premiership you can't score for shit. That's the problem there.

What i saw in this pre-season games is that Rafael play him in a more advance role which we all expected. So its obvious that Rafael trusted him to deliver the goods this season. Him and Torres will work as a partner together and i have full confidence in him to score more than 15 goals in all competitions this season.
[/quote]


Just like Momo can have a MOM performance in pre-season and then return to his piss poor passing and his couldn't-hit-a-cows-arse-with-a-banjo shooting in the real season.
[/quote]

Momo's game is not purely based on scoring goals son. He's a box to box midfielder. So lets keep it to that. He has improved a lot in passing the ball since he came here.
[/quote]

No, it hasn't lad. If anything it's got worse. Box to box midfielders are able to do something when they get to the opponents box - he isn't. So I'll keep it to that OK?
[/quote]

You are getting senile if you think he has not improve since he join us. The only thing now has to improve is his shooting. That's all.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=14248.msg326544#msg326544 date=1185787019]Del, to be fair, all that could be said about Morientes.
[/quote]

Morientes WAS a good finisher. He was just a big pussy and couldn't stand the rough and tumble.

 

[Grungefuttock]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg326539#msg326539 date=1185786839]
[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=14248.msg326532#msg326532 date=1185786732]
Rafa doesn't play with 20-goals-a-season guys up front. He wants a more all-round game from his front players, with goals included but not the be-all and end-all. There's a legitimate argument to be had about whether that style will win the Prem, but Kuyt will get enough and more than enough goals for Rafa's system.
[/quote]

Well, Rafa's being silly, then.

We play a pretty rigid setup; we don't play free-flowing football that pulls opposition defenders all over the place.

Consequently, we need a pretty good finisher to take a lot of the chances we create. And we don't fcuking have one.
[/quote]

We don't YET play that system but it's what Rafa's working towards.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=14248.msg326548#msg326548 date=1185787114]We don't YET play that system but it's what Rafa's working towards.
[/quote]

What system?

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg326529#msg326529 date=1185786571]
[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=14248.msg326526#msg326526 date=1185786399]
His shooting was just fine at Feyenoord. If he's been more wayward for us, that's due to a whole number of factors - new club, new country, different role, perhaps trying a bit too hard at times. We berate the Mancs for imagining football began in 1992 - Kuyt's career didn't begin when he signed for us either. He'll be fine.
[/quote]

You can tell just by watching him strike the ball that he isn't a gifted finisher.

We need a player who can strike the ball like Crespo, Eto'o, Fowler, RVN, Huntelaar, Henry etc
[/quote]

Don't think we should give up on him just yet tho.

He was a goal=scorer in Feyenoord, and it's not as if he was totally goal shy in his first season here.

I think he has better attacking options around him now,and I hope we see better this year.

But one thing Brendan said rings true I think :

It should be Pennant passing to Kuyt to shoot,and not the other fucking way round.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=14248.msg326547#msg326547 date=1185787078]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=14248.msg326544#msg326544 date=1185787019]Del, to be fair, all that could be said about Morientes.
[/quote]

Morientes WAS a good finisher. He was just a big pussy and couldn't stand the rough and tumble.
[/quote]

Morientes missed sitter after sitter for us though mate, and that's not down to the rough and tumble. He proved that he just wasn't a very good finisher in English football, probably partly due to less time on the ball. There's no reason why the same can't similarly be said of Kuyt, I really couldn't care what he did in Holland because it counts for nothing in England.