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Scouting Department

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binomial

In Klopp I'm a believer.
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It's crossed my mind over the last few weeks and it might just be me but I've grown to be quite concerned over the lack of talents, both nationally and globally, we've recruited or produced in our youth set up.

Now whilst I know it has no immediate impact with our on field troubles but long term it could prove to both effective in productivity and financially.

So who was the last real successful u21 if you like player that was able to make a difference? and I can only really think back to Coutinho....signed for £8.5m as a 20 year old from Inter after having a short stint on loan in La Liga before making a handful of appearances with Inter....he went on to be nothing short of world class for us before getting his big move to Barca some years later for 120m.....a long term asset for the club and ended up both proving effective on the pitch and ultimately financially benefitting...that then led to the signings of Ali Virg etc and the rest is history. Edit - Another good example was Sterling....signed as a 15 year old from QPR for 500k, went on to be effective on the pitch and again gained financially to help spur on the squad we see today.

Since then from memory we've gone on to sign the likes of Luis Alberto, Joe Gomez, Allan de Souza, Sepp Van den Berg, Dom Solanke, Curtis Jones, Harvey Elliott and now Calvin Ramsey & Fabio Carvalho....none of whom have been inspiring recruits...or yet to be at least.

Simple question is why haven't we been able to produce bigger talents from our academy or recruit better talented players from other contingents like Africa or South America?
 
Not sure if we overthink things at times - Klopp's admission “Let me say it like this, from time to time, I would like to risk a bit more [in the market] but I don’t decide that." may suggest so.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...s/liverpool-ian-graham-transfer-news-21819783

[article]
"If we're 90% sure the player has no fitness issues, and 90% sure the player has no personal issues, the chance that he's fine across both of those boxes is 81%," said Graham.

"Then if you add in playing out of position, the manager doesn't rate the player, the player isn't as good as we thought, we've already got a player who is as good and so on, the overall chance of success goes down to 48%."
[/article]
 
Whoever was 90% sure that Konate, Jota, Keita, Gomez, Matip and Thiago had no fitness issues is not very good at math.
 
Whoever was 90% sure that Konate, Jota, Keita, Gomez, Matip and Thiago had no fitness issues is not very good at math.

Maybe they knew they were 90% certain to be crocks, but spent the money anyway because it was less than what we'd pay for an "always fit" similarly talented player? It seems like that's definitely been the case, that we've cut corners with these types of players and then counted the cost. I mean, I'm sure many clubs do this, but when we play such a high intensity system that breaks the fittest of players, let's face it, it's fucking dumb either way.
 
It's crossed my mind over the last few weeks and it might just be me but I've grown to be quite concerned over the lack of talents, both nationally and globally, we've recruited or produced in our youth set up.

Now whilst I know it has no immediate impact with our on field troubles but long term it could prove to both effective in productivity and financially.

So who was the last real successful u21 if you like player that was able to make a difference? and I can only really think back to Coutinho....signed for £8.5m as a 20 year old from Inter after having a short stint on loan in La Liga before making a handful of appearances with Inter....he went on to be nothing short of world class for us before getting his big move to Barca some years later for 120m.....a long term asset for the club and ended up both proving effective on the pitch and ultimately financially benefitting...that then led to the signings of Ali Virg etc and the rest is history. Edit - Another good example was Sterling....signed as a 15 year old from QPR for 500k, went on to be effective on the pitch and again gained financially to help spur on the squad we see today.

Since then from memory we've gone on to sign the likes of Luis Alberto, Joe Gomez, Allan de Souza, Sepp Van den Berg, Dom Solanke, Curtis Jones, Harvey Elliott and now Calvin Ramsey & Fabio Carvalho....none of whom have been inspiring recruits...or yet to be at least.

Simple question is why haven't we been able to produce bigger talents from our academy or recruit better talented players from other contingents like Africa or South America?

Tl;dr
 
Some of this is overly critical, IMO.

  • Joe Gomez formed part of a successful PL winning CB combination for £3.5 million. He's been unfortunate with injuries and his development and game time since, but that does not prevent him as anything other than a fantastic piece of business.
  • Elliott is the only LFC player to feature in every game this season and is still 19.
  • Solanke went for huge profit.
  • Jones is a successful product of the academy and at the very least will be a reasonable squaddie that will support the home-grown quota.
  • Alberto has been one of the most efficient and creative attackers in Italy for years. He was mis-managed by Rodgers, IMO. The scouting was fine.
  • The jury is out on Ramsay and Carvalho, but there's no need to rush to judgement on them yet.
I don't see the need the need to lump them all into a list and call them "uninspired", but I do agree I would like to see us sourcing talented young players from the likes of South America rather than waiting until they've played a few prem games and they're suddenly worth £75m! The shitter we are, the more development opportunities we can provide, so that's something. Yay!
 
Overthink things? He's multiplying with made up numbers!

The numbers are just illustrative. The actual numbers they multiply will be based on data gathered from real matches. Real numbers. Real science. Ahh loool my child. Let me break faith since this is our club at stake. The thing you're missing is how mathematical modelling works. For a start, the "multiplication" of those numbers is already a comical mistake, you can't do that in probability unless each event is independent of the other. The rest of the modelling techniques they use are similarly comical (making more incorrect assumptions like the martingale and markov properties, but that's for the holy church to ordain, not you).

On the flipside, you have Klopp, who looks at the player and "downloads" data that represents not only all the numbers the comical model could even dream of capturing, but thousands of other features that don't even have numbers, and he makes no mathematical assumptions about them. All that information is processed assumption-free by Klopp's brain, using a model that he could never write out for you on a piece of paper, but it's a model nonetheless, that is applied by his brain and is infinitely more complex and accurate and elegant than what any idiotic multiplication could ever hope to match.

Klopp being overruled by a dumb spreadsheet on transfers is the self-inflicted root of our problems. It is also the root of your problems when it comes to what medical interventions you may or may not think are a good idea. Let us pray your data scienced cellular biology fares better than our data scienced central midfield.
 
Klopp being overruled by a dumb spreadsheet on transfers is the self-inflicted root of our problems. It is also the root of your problems when it comes to what medical interventions you may or may not think are a good idea. Let us pray your data scienced cellular biology fares better than our data scienced central midfield.

Not saying Klopp is/will always be right but it seems that because of a few success in specific areas (e.g. stats - Salah over Brandt, waiting for the right players - Konate), they (FSG and/or their mouthpiece) think their approach is perfect/fool proof (because these reasons/excuses keep getting repeated, along with the Covid financial impact). 😕

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...s/liverpool-ian-graham-transfer-news-21819783
[article]Finding ways to bolster Jurgen Klopp’s starting line-up is an eternal mission for Graham and Edwards but as Liverpool have gradually improved, the pool of players who possess enough quality to make a worthwhile difference has shrunk.

"Replacing a 30th-percentile player in your squad with a 70th-percentile player gains you roughly 0.08 goal difference per game, and that equates to roughly 2 points per season," said Graham.


The Reds demand numerous green lights before chasing players. It is a lengthy and microscopic process, but one that ensures that their success rate in the transfer market stays above 50%.
[/article]
 
Well, the approach that works and has been used by the most successful managers this country has seen, was to go out of your way to strengthen the first team after winning trophies. An old tried and trusted adage. If you introduce a model whose function means that once your team has won the league, it is next to impossible to identify any statistically superior players to the ones you already have, then you better be god damn sure that your model is more accurate than Ferguson's, Dalglish's, Paisley's and Klopp's brains ever were.

I would put it to you that if you look at this guy and don't instantly dismiss him with hysterical laughter before a word has even left his mouth, then you're an idiot and deserve the europa conference league. Or death in the case of medical interventions.

Fbaz1lzXkAEp0ay.jpg:large
 
Some of this is overly critical, IMO.

  • Joe Gomez formed part of a successful PL winning CB combination for £3.5 million. He's been unfortunate with injuries and his development and game time since, but that does not prevent him as anything other than a fantastic piece of business.
  • Elliott is the only LFC player to feature in every game this season and is still 19.
  • Solanke went for huge profit.
  • Jones is a successful product of the academy and at the very least will be a reasonable squaddie that will support the home-grown quota.
  • Alberto has been one of the most efficient and creative attackers in Italy for years. He was mis-managed by Rodgers, IMO. The scouting was fine.
  • The jury is out on Ramsay and Carvalho, but there's no need to rush to judgement on them yet.
I don't see the need the need to lump them all into a list and call them "uninspired", but I do agree I would like to see us sourcing talented young players from the likes of South America rather than waiting until they've played a few prem games and they're suddenly worth £75m! The shitter we are, the more development opportunities we can provide, so that's something. Yay!

Get out of here. Sensible posts like yours do not belong on 6CM.
 
Yeah I think our scouting department was really good. But everything seems to have ground to a halt

I'm a bit worried that FSG has fed them to the sharks.
 
These fuckers remind of the time my barber was telling me he thought he could manage Liverpool because he'd won the champions league with Tranmere. He was deadly serious and couldn't understand why I was laughing. Had to explain, that's a computer game mate. These fuckers are the same. Didn't one of the stupid cunts say he never watches players we're into as what you see might obscure the objective reality of his spreadsheet?

I suppose it worked for a bit. Turns out it was luck
 
These fuckers remind of the time my barber was telling me he thought he could manage Liverpool because he'd won the champions league with Tranmere. He was deadly serious and couldn't understand why I was laughing. Had to explain, that's a computer game mate. These fuckers are the same. Didn't one of the stupid cunts say he never watches players we're into as what you see might obscure the objective reality of his spreadsheet?

I suppose it worked for a bit. Turns out it was luck
Can your barber play midfield? We could try him over Fabinho?
 
Yeah I think our scouting department was really good. But everything seems to have ground to a halt

I'm a bit worried that FSG has fed them to the sharks.
FSG lured them in with a phone call to meet them by the Mississippi river telling them of a 250m war chest they found.

N Next thing you know it......
 
Honestly? I’m so sick of the money on football that I can only see scouting making a minor difference with regards to ever winning the league. Top four and the league are about money money money. I know squat about footy and even I could go out and build a top squad with the funds Chelsea et al are spending.
 
I'd be 100% focused on being schmoozed at the correct restaurants. That's all that really matters.
 
Good at putting curlers in and his highlights are great. Also great at brushing off challenges.

At the right price he’d be a snip, but a transfer would be far from cut & dried.

We've looked everywhere with a fine tooth comb for the right midfielder, so why not try the barber? He's comfortable playing both long and short and has the tools to be sharp up front and at the back.
 
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