Wenger, moaning. Again.

[FoxForceFive]

Yeah Arsene, they didnt play the better football, but that means fuck all. When they start giving out prizes for attractive footy you'll be guaranteed at least one, until then shut the fuck up & try to make sure your team get the points or learn to live with it.

As for Eduardo, it's about time they did something, but they cant simply do it at any point cos it's high profile, it's got to be consistent & across the board. He has a point there cos of that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arsene Wenger has branded Manchester United's style of play this season as 'anti-football'.

The Arsenal boss has slammed the Red Devils' tactics following a fiercely-competitive clash at Old Trafford on Saturday.

United overcame their arch-rivals 2-1 on home soil, recovering from a goal down to take the spoils in the first 'big-four' encounter of the 2009/10 campaign.

Andrey Arshavin had fired Arsenal in front before half-time, but a Wayne Rooney penalty and an own goal from Abou Diaby saw Sir Alex Ferguson's men bounce back after the break.

Things then got worse for the Gunners in the closing stages when Wenger was sent to the stands for kicking a water bottle in frustration after a late Robin van Persie effort was ruled out for offside.

The setback capped a disappointing week for the capital club, with Eduardo's 'dive' against Celtic dominating the headlines prior to the Old Trafford fixture.

Wenger feels his side have been unfairly treated, in the wake of a Uefa ban for Eduardo, and insists United's approach to Saturday's game was far worse than the tumble taken by his striker in Wednesday's UEFA Champions League qualifier.

"I have seen a player who plays on the pitch only to make fouls," he said. "For me, this is a point that is more urgent than diving.

"The players who are never punished, who get out of the game without a yellow card. I think it is more anti-football than a player who did what Eduardo did.

"Look at how many deliberate fouls some players get away with. That's a bigger problem because it cuts the flow of the game. And people pay to see football, not free-kicks."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5527655,00.html

 

[gkmacca]

[move][size=30pt]HOOF! HOOF![/size][/move]

 

[IGotALuvlyBunchOfCoconuts]

As a spectator I agree with him.

 

[gkmacca]

He's a whining, bitter, graceless git. And he gets worse every season.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35571.msg935597#msg935597 date=1251713030]
He's a whining, bitter, graceless git. And he gets worse every season.
[/quote]

Yep. A shame cos he is a truly talented manager in many ways.

 

[ibromurph]

Typical headline bollocks.

What he's saying doesn't correspond with the title of the article.

Basically, he's just complaining about players like Fletcher (who seem to be on the field to simply break up play even cynically). I'd agree with him, but that'd be hypocritical as we have Mascher and Lucas who do the same thing.

 

[Judge Jules]

Indeed. His teams play the beautiful game, but he doesn't talk it.

Good to see the war of attrition between those two clubs kick off again though.

 

[gkmacca]

He gets away with murder because he's perceived by some as the enemy of our enemy. To me though he's just another enemy, and an increasingly irrational one, too.

 

[5euros]

i did laugh when he was stood on the dugout,like some court jester

 

[gkmacca]

He's a strange man. Did you ever see that clip of him giggling like a girl next to Ginsoak at that Sky-hosted event? Vomit-inducing.

 

[Roger REDerer]

I'm gonna try to look at the whole thing with a different perspective for a change.

What I think Wenger is trying to do is to adopt a siege mentality, simply by diverting all the attention onto himself, rather than the performance or the team itself. The same way Jose did when he was at Chelshit.

I can imagine it isn't easy lifting the spirits of a young team whenever they fail to deliver the goods, every season for the last few years. The more you fail, the heavier the weight you'll feel being heaped onto your shoulders, especially when you're just a young one making it out in a top 4 team in the cutthroat EPL. It gets worse when you haven't tasted success before and their confidence can be like glass - easily shattered. Suddenly, as a young player, you find your team not doing well in the league, you find it hard to win games even when you think you've put in maximum effort. And your morale drops as a result.

Wenger probably saw the dangers that overwhelming pressure can affect his young team, so instead he diverts all pressure onto himself and absorbs it instead.

Meanwhile, the team continues to believe in themselves and is led to believe (by their own manager, Arsene) that the reason they failed to win is down to injustice being dished out by the FA, refs, etc. So the only way to respond (again, brainwashed by their manager) is to fight harder to prove their critics wrong. That way, they'll rarely feel discouraged and lacking belief in themselves.

Siege mentality.

 

[gkmacca]

Or a bitter man over-indulged by Roger.

 

[Roger REDerer]

Yeah..or that.

 

[gkmacca]

Here's another understandable attempt to create a siege mentality, and not at all a whingeing bit of bitterness:

Football - Liverpool FC: Liverpool players chucked themselves all over the pitch, Gary Megson
Aug 31 2009 by Ian Doyle, Liverpool Daily Post

Football - Liverpool FC: ANGRY Bolton Wanderers manager Gary Megson has accused Liverpool’s players of “chucking themselves all over the pitch†to secure victory at the Reebok Stadium.

Rafael Benitez’s side twice came from behind before a late Steven Gerrard strike eventually earned a 3-2 win on Saturday.

The turning point of the game came in the 54th minute when Sean Davis was shown the red card for a second bookable offence after upending Lucas.

Megson was unhappy with the Brazilian’s part in the incident, which he claims was typical of the antics of the Anfield outfit.

And while the Trotters manager stopped short of referring to Liverpool’s players of cheating, the inference was patently obvious.

“The sending-off was up to the referee’s interpretation on both yellow cards but I would strongly suggest that that would only happen to 14 clubs in this league,†said Megson. “There are six clubs that it wouldn’t happen to. You either accept it or get better at it ourselves which we won’t do. I can’t go on about honesty and integrity and then tell players to chuck themselves all over the show.

“You just have to hope that the referees and officials, when they have these meetings, recognise what is happening.

“I didn’t see all what happened at the sending-off but you just know what is going to happen. As soon as the challenge was made we tried to organise a substitution because you know damn well what is going to happen.â€

Megson added: “There were other things going off out there. Liverpool know we are going to be physical and no-one in this division likes handling Kevin Davies at set-pieces or when Jussi has got the ball.

“Instead of just coping with it, you will see a lot of stuff written about him in the press before the game from the opposition and during the game there will be a lot of stuff happening on the touchline, a lot of moaning about it. It is a bit sad that those things happen.â€

Megson continued launching his broadside by implying Lucas made sure referee Alan Riley brandished a second yellow card to Davis, who had earlier been booked for kicking the ball away.

“We are not going to accept it,†said Megson. “I am going to keep moaning about it until people stop criticising Kevin Davies and stop trying to get our players booked.

“Some of the opponents we play are chucking themselves all over the pitch. We compete. We close the ball down and we battle for every ball on that pitch.

“But you will never see one of our players on that pitch rolling all over the ground when there is nothing wrong with him.

“Our physio rarely goes on the pitch and yet you see it happening all the time with the opposition and you know damn well that it is not life-threatening.â€

Megson extended his theme by insisting two Liverpool players had dived during Saturday’s game. “Did they take the rule out that if someone throws themselves over and they don’t get booked that they can get punished for that?†he said. “I think that is still in there but when did you last see that happen? It happened twice in this game. Two people chanced their arm on trying to get a penalty. I am not saying who they were.

“You either join in or accept it. Tell me the last Bolton player you saw throwing himself all over the place.â€

[In answer to your last question, Gazza: Diouf. Now feck off.]


http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/chester-sport/football-liverpool-fc-news/2009/08/31/football-liverpool-fc-liverpool-players-chucked-themselves-all-over-the-pitch-gary-megson-59067-24569067/

 

[ibromurph]

“You either join in or accept it. Tell me the last Bolton player you saw throwing himself all over the place.â€

Does Kevin Davies' elbows count? :🙂

 

[nornirongooner]

Your obsessed with him ;D

 

[gkmacca]

It's [size=50pt]'YOU'RE'[/size]- not 'your! Why do people find this so bloody hard to understand?? >🙁

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35571.msg935641#msg935641 date=1251717512]
Here's another understandable attempt to create a siege mentality, and not at all a whingeing bit of bitterness:

Football - Liverpool FC: Liverpool players chucked themselves all over the pitch, Gary Megson
Aug 31 2009 by Ian Doyle, Liverpool Daily Post

Football - Liverpool FC: ANGRY Bolton Wanderers manager Gary Megson has accused Liverpool’s players of “chucking themselves all over the pitch†to secure victory at the Reebok Stadium.

Rafael Benitez’s side twice came from behind before a late Steven Gerrard strike eventually earned a 3-2 win on Saturday.

The turning point of the game came in the 54th minute when Sean Davis was shown the red card for a second bookable offence after upending Lucas.

Megson was unhappy with the Brazilian’s part in the incident, which he claims was typical of the antics of the Anfield outfit.

And while the Trotters manager stopped short of referring to Liverpool’s players of cheating, the inference was patently obvious.

“The sending-off was up to the referee’s interpretation on both yellow cards but I would strongly suggest that that would only happen to 14 clubs in this league,†said Megson. “There are six clubs that it wouldn’t happen to. You either accept it or get better at it ourselves which we won’t do. I can’t go on about honesty and integrity and then tell players to chuck themselves all over the show.

“You just have to hope that the referees and officials, when they have these meetings, recognise what is happening.

“I didn’t see all what happened at the sending-off but you just know what is going to happen. As soon as the challenge was made we tried to organise a substitution because you know damn well what is going to happen.â€

Megson added: “There were other things going off out there. Liverpool know we are going to be physical and no-one in this division likes handling Kevin Davies at set-pieces or when Jussi has got the ball.

“Instead of just coping with it, you will see a lot of stuff written about him in the press before the game from the opposition and during the game there will be a lot of stuff happening on the touchline, a lot of moaning about it. It is a bit sad that those things happen.â€

Megson continued launching his broadside by implying Lucas made sure referee Alan Riley brandished a second yellow card to Davis, who had earlier been booked for kicking the ball away.

“We are not going to accept it,†said Megson. “I am going to keep moaning about it until people stop criticising Kevin Davies and stop trying to get our players booked.

“Some of the opponents we play are chucking themselves all over the pitch. We compete. We close the ball down and we battle for every ball on that pitch.

“But you will never see one of our players on that pitch rolling all over the ground when there is nothing wrong with him.

“Our physio rarely goes on the pitch and yet you see it happening all the time with the opposition and you know damn well that it is not life-threatening.â€

Megson extended his theme by insisting two Liverpool players had dived during Saturday’s game. “Did they take the rule out that if someone throws themselves over and they don’t get booked that they can get punished for that?†he said. “I think that is still in there but when did you last see that happen? It happened twice in this game. Two people chanced their arm on trying to get a penalty. I am not saying who they were.

“You either join in or accept it. Tell me the last Bolton player you saw throwing himself all over the place.â€

[In answer to your last question, Gazza: Diouf. Now feck off.]


http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/chester-sport/football-liverpool-fc-news/2009/08/31/football-liverpool-fc-liverpool-players-chucked-themselves-all-over-the-pitch-gary-megson-59067-24569067/
[/quote]

This from Andy Hunter in the Guardian's match report made me lol...

Misfortune consumed Megson the moment Davis and Lucas Leiva collided and the referee Alan Wiley deemed an innocuous touch worthy of a second yellow card. It continued as Bolton reacted with a defensive substitution, but Fernando Torres equalised before they could. It was also Megson's ill-luck that Davis foolishly invited his first booking by kicking the ball away in first-half stoppage time. Or that Zat Knight opted to ball-watch instead of track Torres when Dirk Kuyt teed up the Spaniard for Liverpool's second.

 

[gkmacca]

The way Megson described the evil art of slowing down very subtly so as to get clipped without being hacked down made it sound like the most impressive technical trick around. He seems to be going doolally. And Wenger thinks the sole purpose of Duncan Fletcher is to trip people up and be 'anti-football'? No wonder his own team has been so vulnerable since Viera went.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35571.msg935684#msg935684 date=1251720485]
The way Megson described the evil art of slowing down very subtly so as to get clipped without being hacked down made it sound like the most impressive technical trick around. He seems to be going doolally. And Wenger thinks the sole purpose of Duncan Fletcher is to trip people up and be 'anti-football'? No wonder his own team has been so vulnerable since Viera went.
[/quote]

This coming from Wenger who's Arsenal time for his first 5 years in charge were the most ill-disciplined side in Premier League history too.

P.S. Get rid of that sig Macca. I'm sure you've come out with plenty of things you've regretted. Dragging this on is a bit childish, something we all know you're not.

 

[gkmacca]

The courtesy of a quick PM would certainly have avoided putting me in a bad mood.

 

[Farkmaster]

Yep yep, he's a whinger, as always.

However, if he were our whinger, I'd actually find a couple aspects of what he did quite funny. His flair for he dramatic is increasing, as Rederer of all people mentioned, it is a bitter, shrunken faced impression of Mourinho.

People are quite willing to hate Wenger, but I think you have to respect certain things, especially as Liverpool slips into some degree of uncertainty due to the lack of investment in the summer. Wenger on the back of a couple years with little "war chest" and player sales without massive reinvestment, has completely replaced an aging winning team. The new team isn't near as good, and if they won it would be a very unlikely piece of genius.

So what if they don't do that. If they can manage champions league money each season, until they can pay off their stadium debt, the strategy would also be a piece of genius, gambling on faith in scouting and training, and ultimately a manager. If the manager passed the test, he'd be a genius as well. This hasn't happened yet, but I can't help but thinking their is something a bit good about the approach.

Of course this debt weighing them down is debt used to build a stadium, to grow revenue massively to compete in a long term strategy of a football club, as opposed to debt used to service an ill-funded buyout of two owners, one a rodeo-ownin' prior failure at a football club, the other a chairlift selling, chapter 11 filing, douche that sells overpriced chicken. Those managers in question cannot even in the least bit demonstrate any shared strategy for a way forward, are contemplating sales of other assets, and their PR is to almost never communicate publicly in the home market of their largest "brand". Because "nothing" was the best damage limitation. Such professional work hasn't been seen since the days of such other award winning strategies like "let's not bother thoroughly coaching the owners on cultural differences about an unfamiliar product in a different country, they'll be fine looking dumb in their first interviews".

They took a gamble and failed, poor timing, economic collapse and all. Being professionals they reevaluated their position and came to consensus, as opposed to treating a football club asset like they'd treat their abattoirs, and letting their flailings feed the press. This football team is not in some hand holding league with kum bay yah owner's agreements, not with "fans" that sing that wonderful and time honored song "D-fense, D-fense, and such witty remarks like, "wooo, go team". It's a vicious unmoderated capitalist orgy with tumultuous investment activity. It's more American than any American sport.

If Wenger holds 4th together for long enough, he's massively improved the prospects of the whole club. If they then begin to reinvest increased revenues, they'll have done it the old fashioned way as far as i'm concerned. A whingy old fashioned way, but I can't feel smug about Wenger or Arsenal. They appear to be some way through a risk, as opposed to in the limbo over a rudderless one.

And this isn't all about the owners. Does anyone on this earth believe that if you gave Rafa and our scouting and training Wenger's war, er, pettycash, that he could do the same?

 

[nornirongooner]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35571.msg935651#msg935651 date=1251718620]
It's [size=50pt]'YOU'RE'[/size]- not 'your! Why do people find this so bloody hard to understand?? >🙁
[/quote]

You honestly think people give a toss when posting on an Internet forum? 😛

 

[Judge Jules]

That doesn't make it right. I have a young second cousin about to study English at university and she's had to ask me the difference between "loose" and "lose" etc.

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35571.msg935706#msg935706 date=1251723002]
If Wenger holds 4th together for long enough, he's massively improved the prospects of the whole club. If they then begin to reinvest increased revenues, they'll have done it the old fashioned way as far as i'm concerned. A whingy old fashioned way, but I can't feel smug about Wenger or Arsenal. They appear to be some way through a risk, as opposed to in the limbo over a rudderless one.

And this isn't all about the owners. Does anyone on this earth believe that if you gave Rafa and our scouting and training Wenger's war, er, pettycash, that he could do the same?
[/quote]

Great post. Fully agree.

What Wenger has done for Arsenal is nothing short of amazing. He's taken them from Highbury to the Emirates, from the UEFA cup to the Champions League, from slow, uninspiring hoofball to fast, attacking passing football, from an aging, over-the-hill side to a young, energetic side.. all on a shoestring budget.

I think Arsenal's lack of success in recent years, and his heavy investment in youngsters, is because of the debt of the stadium. He seems committed to paying that off, by spending little and relying on young players and his attacking philosophy. And that attacking philosophy with young players is like a marketing strategy in itself. Talented young players KNOW they will get a chance at Arsenal, and know that he won't stand in their way if they ever wanted to leave.
Moreover, the attractive football allows them to charge extortionate prices at the Emirates and also keeps the fans coming back for more (despite the lack of success), whilst it allows them to hold some moral, high ground that they're playing football "the right way" and "success will come".

You get the feeling that they're going through a consolidation period right now (simply happy to make CL) to pay off the stadium debt, but once that's paid, there will be better days around the corner for them. They won't have owners sucking the club dry, or paying off huge loans. They'll be spending what they earn, which would be quite considerable if it wasn't for the stadium debt. Wenger, and Arsenal, are effectively doing things the "right way" and I can't help but be a bit envious of that. Wenger's only worry is that by the time they pay off the stadium, he may no longer be in the job as the fans become more disillusioned with the clubs lack of success. He (wenger) may end up doing all this hard work just for someone else to come in and reap the rewards of his prudence/patience.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

How long will it be though until the Gooners are in a position to spend in the transfer market again? Didn't the new stadium cost around £600 mil?

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=35571.msg935732#msg935732 date=1251724922]

Wenger's only worry is that by the time they pay off the stadium, he may no longer be in the job as the fans become more disillusioned with the clubs lack of success. He (wenger) may end up doing all this hard work just for someone else to come in and reap the rewards of his prudence/patience.
[/quote]

The other possible downside is that by the time they pay off the debts on the stadium, they may no longer have a team to attract the attendances to fill the stadium every week. That could happen too if they have to keep selling their best players before they reach their peak to pay the stadium debt.

However, that depends on the recession and them being able to make a sizeable profit on the property built on their old Highbury ground to pay off a big chunk of their debt.

Btw - does anyone think we could follow that strategy and use any property built on Anfield to pay off a chunk of the new stadium debt (if we ever get one built)?

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=nornirongooner link=topic=35571.msg935650#msg935650 date=1251718449]
Your obsessed with him ;D
[/quote]

I'm not in the least bit obsessed with him, in fact, I dont know if I've ever bothered posting about him specifically before, he's an ace manager in many ways, but in others he's a complete tit. A bit like our manager.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=35571.msg935743#msg935743 date=1251726706]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=35571.msg935732#msg935732 date=1251724922]

Wenger's only worry is that by the time they pay off the stadium, he may no longer be in the job as the fans become more disillusioned with the clubs lack of success. He (wenger) may end up doing all this hard work just for someone else to come in and reap the rewards of his prudence/patience.
[/quote]

The other possible downside is that by the time they pay off the debts on the stadium, they may no longer have a team to attract the attendances to fill the stadium every week. That could happen too if they have to keep selling their best players before they reach their peak to pay the stadium debt.

However, that depends on the recession and them being able to make a sizeable profit on the property built on their old Highbury ground to pay off a big chunk of their debt.

Btw - does anyone think we could follow that strategy and use any property built on Anfield to pay off a chunk of the new stadium debt (if we ever get one built)?
[/quote]

Hahahahaha. You have to pay people to buy property there mate, you certainly couldnt sell any!

Plus, as part of the deal of us getting planning permission to build the stadium on a national park we have to make some of it parkland, some a community centre to help the locals & some car parking as that needs to e increased.

So in short, not a chance.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35571.msg935734#msg935734 date=1251725378]
How long will it be though until the Gonners are in a position to spend in the transfer market again? Didn't the new stadium cost around £600 mil?
[/quote]

Bit harsh, that. 😉