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West Ham Post Match Bitching plus RAAAAAAATIINGS!

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manwithnoname

Bravo old man. Bravo.
Banned
Hmpph.

We seem to be in a bit of a slump, and while it's easy - and entirely accurate - to blame the goalkeeper, defence and attack, there are some more fundamental issues to address.

Namely, as discussed in a previous thread about our lack of ability to control the tempo, and close a game out, why our midfield are not providing a solid and dependable platform for the team.

I've brought this up in previous threads ("GenGen Depressing" and also "The Eye Of The Storm - Craving Serenity") but we aren't learning. We can't react to changes in tempo and manage games out. We can't score a goal and expect that will be enough to win the game.

Same happened here. We seemed slightly lacking in inspiration, and too much of our game was "pass to Mane". We also had no real goal threat, and the midfield never really took control and dominated. As usual, our well-known and obvious problems in defence came to the fore once more, with the comedy German keeper Klownius doing another Teutonic Big Top routine, as we shipped yet more goals.

After conceding a laughable four to the mediocre Bournemouth, we then gifted two more to the hopeless, relegation-threatened West Ham, to leave us with one of the worst defensive records of any club in the top half of the entire league. And as everyone knows, you can't win titles with a defence that is worse than Everton, Southampton and Middlesbrough.

Klopp also seems incapable of changing his team to effect any positive difference, although that might be because his bench is so weak. Still, he had the fucking money, why didn't we buy the players everyone knew we needed?

Klarius (4) Weak-wristed, jittery clown cost us yet again. He looks totally shit. I predicted we would be discussing dropping him by Xmas, half in jest. Nobody's laughing now. Apart from our opposition.

Clyne (6) Not at his usual level, he wasted some decent opportunities and seemed to take an age to settle down and attack a poor West Ham defence

Lovren (5) Dealt with one long ball very poorly, but didn't do much else wrong until he was forced off injured.

Matip (5) Poor mistake cost us one goal, which is very disappointing, but he was OK after that. Which still isn't good enough, so a point off

Milner (6) Indefatigable as ever, but so many set-pieces and crosses were simply not good enough - despite his usual energy that lack of quality in delivery was costly

Henderson (6) One wonderful shot, but he seems incapable of bending a game to his will - he simply goes with whatever the flow is. We need more, even if he is always "decent" or "OK"

Wijnaldum (6) Another "nice" footballer, looking neat and tidy and actually doing almost nothing of any note to help us win the game.

Lallana (7) Extra point for the goal, which is so vital from our midfield, but he did diminish in influence after that, which was disappointing

Mane (7) Saw a lot of the ball, as he was the only outket who had any desire to run and take people on, but again, the final product was often awry. Still a vital player for us, but we can't rely on him to rescue us every game, even if he is our top scorer and best player

Firmino (4) Another poor game, in which he never looked likely to add to his admittedly very modest total of goals, and lacked the pace and inventiveness to beat his man out wide, or influence the game in any way. Should be dropped rather than ever play wide for Liverpool, he's fucking hopeless there

Origi (6) Gets an extra point for the goal, which brings him to within two goals of getting into double figures in the Premiership in his career so far. All he can do is score, but apart from the goal he was largely invisible.

Klopp (5) Should have ensured he had a better squad to choose from in summer, as he has no options in attack and lacks a quality goalkeeper. And he still has lots of work to do with his defence, which is as laughably shit as ever.
 
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I really need to see the replay for the second West Ham goal again. I thought the deflection wrong-footed Matip and left a 1-on-1. In which case why are people blaming Matip for an impossible to predict deviation ?
 
Hmmmm we havent lost since Januar at Anfield, been very strong throughout the autumn and scoring plenty when needed. Still you again draw the incapable card when it comes to Klopp. I probably shouldnt call you stupid, but you dont come around as particular smart. Repetitive, dull and not too smart...
 
My main disappointment, aside from 2 dropped points, is that my ratings are far too similar to Brendan's (snide remarks aside though) :

Klarius (6) I thought he set his wall up properly (covered the right side and he covered centre and left) but Payet is a genius and the best FK taker in the PL. Also can't blame a keeper for losing a 1-on-1.

Clyne (5) Poor crossing/shooting, very wasteful with a lot of possession.

Lovren (5) Did OK but most of the time he didn't look comfortable. Maybe a blessing in disguise to see Klavan get 45 mins.
Klavan (6) Steady. Looking forward to seeing how his partnership with Matip goes.

Matip (7) I thought the deflection wrong-footed Matip and left a 1-on-1. That aside he thought he was his usual excellent self. My score for him reflects the fact I can't blame him for the goal in any way.

Milner (6) Poor crossing, also very wasteful. Usual Milner energy.

Henderson (7) Thought he had a good game bar his awful corners (unless this near-post every corner - was actually a wonderfully disguised tactic, for something or other).

Wijnaldum (6) Could have done better in the box.

Lallana (6) Didn't look 100% fit.

Mane (7) Generally excellent but lacked the edge necessary to put this one to bed.

Firmino (4) He really shouldn't be laying out wide left. He's fine on the right and excellent in the centre but seems to disappear (or drift inside all the time) when played out wide left. Looked a bit tired - I wonder if that trip to Brazil took more out of him than may be assumed.

Origi (6) Not quite on the same wave-length as some of is team-mates yet so his flicks didn't come off. Willing and strong running in both pressing and chasing lost causes. Caused problems with his good close control. However yet again he showed a striker's instinct it make in 4 in 4 games. Isn't 7 in 11 games better than 20 a season ?

Klopp (6) Right team - bar Firmino on the left when he should be inside or right. He doesn't have many options though so I hope it's true and we are after a winger in January. Subs ? Please ?
 
A few thoughts ...
  • Ryan's comment is bang on the money, unfortunately.
  • Karius ... Part of me says it's over. Part of me still thinks this kid was good enough last year and it doesn't make sense he's so jittery now. I'm going to sit on the fence for a few more games - not sure why, no logic behind this one.
  • Henderson plays like a coward. He's a great passer - and he's got a great shot. So be a bit more adventurous - don't always go for the pass, and when you a shot to take, take it (as he did later on in the game) instead of some fancy floated pass to the back of the box.
  • Matip + Klavan > Matip + Lovren.
  • Gini - would be nice if we'd see a goal or two every few games from the positions he's taking up in the box. Matter of time? Or just average player? Time will tell.
  • Mane - best player on the pitch for us but that nasty streak needs to be controlled.
  • Firmino - I like him, he's a good goalscorer but he's a waste of space on the flank. I really don't get how Klopp can put him here when it's rather obvious his best, and only position, is central - either as a striker or just behind the striker. No point in starting him there -
  • Origi - 4 games, 4 goals and people complain and complain. He's gonna be a good one.
 
Anyway, I thought we played pretty well, actually.

53 touches in the opposition's box, 18 attempts at goal, 68% possession, and dominated in the second half.

A few frustrating things though:
  • We didn't create a lot despite all this dominance. Lallan's goal was brilliant, and out of nothing - but beyond that, what was there? Origi's goal was a gift, and the rest was a lot of huff and puff.
  • The full-backs have let us down the last few weeks. Clyne's down on form, Milner too. Given our front 3 play as narrow as they do, we really need the width from the two full-backs, and team's have figured out to push us inside and left given Milner rarely does the overlap.
  • Moving Firmino out of the 9 has hurt us. Our whole system is built around him up there, and I think him going left has hindered our structure. I'd have played Origi there - he could have stretched the full-back given Milner couldn't, and it'd have kept Bobby F in his best position.
  • Another 2 goals conceded. We would have had to have scored 8 goals combined in our last 2 games to have won the match - that's just not good enough. Teams have figured out the early long ball gives them a one-on-two against Lovren and Matip because the full-backs push so high. Any tiny error and they're in. I'd like to see Karius' starting position advance higher up the pitch. He seems to be caught too far back for my liking.

But yeah, if you're frustrated at us not winning every week and feel like venting spleen at Klopp, etc - then you're expectations are far too fucking high.

We've finished 8th for like the last 10 years. You don't automatically compete at the top of the league just because.

We're going to get results like this. Just like we're going to get results like we did at the Emirates, and Stamford Bridge, etc. Isn't this slightly more enjoyable though? Look at the atmosphere there today - looked pretty fucking electric to me. 5 West Ham players collapsed to the ground at the final whistle - exhausted from trying to hold us out. That's what we do to teams; we pummel them, stretch them, and (most of the time) break them.

It's pretty thrilling, and this Klopp side is - for a variety of reasons - the most fun to watch Liverpool side I can remember sitting through. Maybe some of you need to temper your expectations a little? We're third in the league - where did you think we'd be? First, second? If that's the case, then it's not Klopp that has the issue.
 
Didnt see the final 30 mins. A mate said Mané punched Carroll in the stomach or something. 3 game ban coming up?
 
Karius 3 - bit of a shit house isn't he?
Clyne 6 - did ok but my god he does panic a lot which forces him into weak passing....does his clearance ever stay in play?
Lovren 5 - just terrible, rightly hooked off at HT.
Matip 6 - (-1) for the error in judgement but we can let him off for that.
Milner 7 - thought he did really well & one of our better players
Hendo 5 - his crossing was as abysmal as ever but my word that effort deserved to be the match winner
WIjnaldum 5 - meh, the more he plays the more i think he's just an average player
Lallana 6 - scored a good goal early on then went missing for 85 minutes, where the fuck was he??
Firmino 4 - for the love of god Klopp, play him centrally.... not his fault he played badly today.
Mane 7 - real fighter, sometimes it looked like mane v the world out there...he does put the effort week in week out.
Origi 6 - same as lallana but he was worst 1st half, but much improved 2nd half.

Klavan 7 - thought he did pretty well.
 
Didnt see the final 30 mins. A mate said Mané punched Carroll in the stomach or something. 3 game ban coming up?

It was a silly thing to do but I don't think it's been highlighted in the media for the FA to action.

Personally think he'll get away with it, just like Cesc did last week.
 
Yeah, because referring to a young strikers total goal tally so far in his short Liverpool career is the normal thing to do when rating his last game.....
 
Lack of firepower was the problem up front. We spent lots of time in West Ham's penalty area laying the ball off to each other or passing it back for Henderson to shoot wide.
 
Thought Milner was great today. Between him and Mane for MOM. He certainly put in the best cross of the day, late in the match, when we had three statues in the box who made no attempt to attack the ball. Firmino was shit but is being played out of position. Sorry, but Karius to blame for both goals IMO. The freekick was passed into the net a yard from the post and he didn't have the hands to keep it out. Matip was totally wrongfooted by the deflection off Henderson for the second. Karius far too slow off his line.
 
You do, and you try to.

You slaughtered Lallana and Henderson for years, both of whom have been outstanding this year, and for a while now.

You've moved onto Firmino - got found out on that, and are now on Origi - despite the fact he seems to score every week these days.

LOL !!! - Everytime a new theory is put out by @manwithnoname it seems that particular player which is being targeted does things that puts a stop on the theory. But unfortunately he has a point, which is very difficult given the results. I think we actually have the ability the win this league even with our displays of frailty because in various matches so far this season when questions have been asked we have come up with the goods. What has changed in the last two weeks then ? - it is simple:-

When we give the opposition the opportunity to have the ball and are just involved in "mindless passing" - by opponents - by mindless I mean uncontrolled shit - we seem to lose our intensity and focus. Then out of no genius play by the opposition we let them somehow create half a shit chance which can fuck us up. That is what has happened. Really - both West Ham and Bournemouth were cases of us just stopping and letting them play for a bit. You could tell in the first half after we scored - they (West Ham) were passing it around but not being that effective. It is a strange one for the players and the coaching staff to analyze. But generally I put this down to a loss of concentration and lack of urgency.

Regards Origi - not world class but is scoring in every fucking game. I think many of us thought that these are the games we expected to win. Not going to plan right now is it everyone? But not to worry - I think if the others slip up over Christmas we may regain top spot -this sort of thing happened to us in that run year last time. Don't lose hope everyone.
 
Anyway, I thought we played pretty well, actually.
...
It's pretty thrilling, and this Klopp side is - for a variety of reasons - the most fun to watch Liverpool side I can remember sitting through. Maybe some of you need to temper your expectations a little? We're third in the league - where did you think we'd be? First, second? If that's the case, then it's not Klopp that has the issue.

Ryan that is spot on. I love watching this team more than ever, and I love the fucking fact that we go for it in every game. Seriously - there is nothing to be upset about - we are only 6 points off the top spot and Chelsea will fuck up soon, and Arsenal will have a collapse. Also - we are still missing many chances in games - and when luck comes our way - then on that day and other days when luck is with our players - we will slaughter a few teams by scoring 8 goals against them. I am convinced that that will happen.
 
To maintain our challenge for the league title we need to sign one or two players in January. Don't think I'm alone in thinking that.
It worries me that some of our players already look knackered and that our bench is lacking in quality.
Have to spare a thought to Ings who most likely would have been given a chance now. I mean how unlucky can you be.
Really hope we have someone lined up already.
 
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