A question for the Irish
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[quote author=Modo link=topic=48689.msg1482820#msg1482820 date=1329262836]
Can someone Ryan, Ross etc shed some light on why Northern Irish players choose to play for the Republic?
Glory? Politics? Religion? Family?
[/quote]
Mainly related to that. Basically down to whether they're Catholic or Protestant.
There's obviously some exceptions(past and present) but lads from Northern Ireland jumping ship is becoming a real source of frustration for the IFA and you can understand why.
Can someone Ryan, Ross etc shed some light on why Northern Irish players choose to play for the Republic?
Glory? Politics? Religion? Family?
[/quote]
Mainly related to that. Basically down to whether they're Catholic or Protestant.
There's obviously some exceptions(past and present) but lads from Northern Ireland jumping ship is becoming a real source of frustration for the IFA and you can understand why.
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=48689.msg1482824#msg1482824 date=1329263185]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48689.msg1482820#msg1482820 date=1329262836]
Can someone Ryan, Ross etc shed some light on why Northern Irish players choose to play for the Republic?
Glory? Politics? Religion? Family?
[/quote]
Mainly related to that. Basically down to whether they're Catholic or Protestant.
There's obviously some exceptions(past and present) but lads from Northern Ireland jumping ship is becoming a real source of frustration for the IFA and you can understand why.
[/quote]
I started this thread because I read about McClean being the latest "casualty" so to speak. The article also mentioned Duffy and Gibson.
It's a tough blow for the IFA.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48689.msg1482820#msg1482820 date=1329262836]
Can someone Ryan, Ross etc shed some light on why Northern Irish players choose to play for the Republic?
Glory? Politics? Religion? Family?
[/quote]
Mainly related to that. Basically down to whether they're Catholic or Protestant.
There's obviously some exceptions(past and present) but lads from Northern Ireland jumping ship is becoming a real source of frustration for the IFA and you can understand why.
[/quote]
I started this thread because I read about McClean being the latest "casualty" so to speak. The article also mentioned Duffy and Gibson.
It's a tough blow for the IFA.
Kinda what Gary said.
It's a tricky one to be fair. I will add that there is a misconception that some lads jump ship because ROI are a better side and your prospects are better of going to a World Cup or whatever. That's shite. I, and any other Catholic I know from NI would play for the Republic. They're who I've supported my whole life, they're a closer resemblace to the Ireland I'm from, and they represent Ireland better to me.
If they were shite, I'd still have played for them. In fact, they are shite. They're just not as shite as NI if you know what I mean.
I will also add that NI football, it's administration, and it's fans have come on leaps and bounds in the last 15 years. A lot of it is down to good work from Jim Boyce and the IFA, getting rid of some shadier managers, etc etc. But I think most of the credit for the icreased bonhomie is down to the supporters and really the goodwill (or better will) on the stands is a refelction of Northern Irish society and a prefernce to move on rather than carrying the fucking fight on forever and a day. People, for the most part, were tired, and couldn't be fucked with it anymore.
It also coincided with better form for NI on the pitch. It was probably easier for the fans to concentrate on football than the other bullshit, cos they were beating England, Spain and the likes.
That said, there is still a way to go before Northern Irish born players will play for them as first choice. It's not wholly dissimilar to attitudes towards the country's police force, the PSNI. You can change, adapt, and become progressive, but it's hard to wipe away decades of history oernight and the IFA have to recognise that as far as they've come, they've still a long way to go. Which in fairness, they probably do recognise.
It's a tricky one to be fair. I will add that there is a misconception that some lads jump ship because ROI are a better side and your prospects are better of going to a World Cup or whatever. That's shite. I, and any other Catholic I know from NI would play for the Republic. They're who I've supported my whole life, they're a closer resemblace to the Ireland I'm from, and they represent Ireland better to me.
If they were shite, I'd still have played for them. In fact, they are shite. They're just not as shite as NI if you know what I mean.
I will also add that NI football, it's administration, and it's fans have come on leaps and bounds in the last 15 years. A lot of it is down to good work from Jim Boyce and the IFA, getting rid of some shadier managers, etc etc. But I think most of the credit for the icreased bonhomie is down to the supporters and really the goodwill (or better will) on the stands is a refelction of Northern Irish society and a prefernce to move on rather than carrying the fucking fight on forever and a day. People, for the most part, were tired, and couldn't be fucked with it anymore.
It also coincided with better form for NI on the pitch. It was probably easier for the fans to concentrate on football than the other bullshit, cos they were beating England, Spain and the likes.
That said, there is still a way to go before Northern Irish born players will play for them as first choice. It's not wholly dissimilar to attitudes towards the country's police force, the PSNI. You can change, adapt, and become progressive, but it's hard to wipe away decades of history oernight and the IFA have to recognise that as far as they've come, they've still a long way to go. Which in fairness, they probably do recognise.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48689.msg1482863#msg1482863 date=1329265610]
Interesting read. I guess it would be difficult for a catholic Northern Irish player to listen to God save the queen.
Many great N.Irish players have called for a unified team.
Wouldn't that be the best solution?
[/quote]
It won't happen Modo, not in my lifetime anyway.
Interesting read. I guess it would be difficult for a catholic Northern Irish player to listen to God save the queen.
Many great N.Irish players have called for a unified team.
Wouldn't that be the best solution?
[/quote]
It won't happen Modo, not in my lifetime anyway.
It's a strange one (well it probably isn't actually).
I'm the opposite of Ryan, I just don't see how anyone from the North would want to play ofr the RoI. No bonus points for working out what my background in.
Plenty of Catholics have played for Northern Ireland over the years - Pat Jennings, Mal Donnaghy, Martin O'Neil, to name a few form the 80's glory days. At the same time despte having the likes of Stapelton, Whelan, Brady, etc the RoI were beyond shite.
I think a fair bit of it has to do with the RoI being considered a "better" option, but also the shite that some of the catholic players took was disgraceful - and home games at Windsor park and some of the "fans" that frequented that place didn't make it easier. After '86 Northern Ireland's "golden generation"started fading away.. it's not as if the political or religious situation got worse... so I'm not sure it's entirely to do with that. At the same time the RoI started to emerge as a force.
Anton Rogan used to get booed in the 90's everytime he touched the ball at Windsor Park, mainly because he played for Celtic. There was a case for saying he got booed because he was shite though.
Ryan forgets to mention he played for Northern Ireland in his youth years though... alongside David Healy... who must be pretty close to be the devil incarnate seeing as he's played for Man Utd & Rangers...
It's not only Northern Irish born players that are at it... there's been a few Scottish born players transfer their allegiance to the RoI as well.... I'm sure Scotland being shite has a bit to do with that as well.
I'm the opposite of Ryan, I just don't see how anyone from the North would want to play ofr the RoI. No bonus points for working out what my background in.
Plenty of Catholics have played for Northern Ireland over the years - Pat Jennings, Mal Donnaghy, Martin O'Neil, to name a few form the 80's glory days. At the same time despte having the likes of Stapelton, Whelan, Brady, etc the RoI were beyond shite.
I think a fair bit of it has to do with the RoI being considered a "better" option, but also the shite that some of the catholic players took was disgraceful - and home games at Windsor park and some of the "fans" that frequented that place didn't make it easier. After '86 Northern Ireland's "golden generation"started fading away.. it's not as if the political or religious situation got worse... so I'm not sure it's entirely to do with that. At the same time the RoI started to emerge as a force.
Anton Rogan used to get booed in the 90's everytime he touched the ball at Windsor Park, mainly because he played for Celtic. There was a case for saying he got booed because he was shite though.
Ryan forgets to mention he played for Northern Ireland in his youth years though... alongside David Healy... who must be pretty close to be the devil incarnate seeing as he's played for Man Utd & Rangers...
It's not only Northern Irish born players that are at it... there's been a few Scottish born players transfer their allegiance to the RoI as well.... I'm sure Scotland being shite has a bit to do with that as well.
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=48689.msg1482905#msg1482905 date=1329291234]
Why is there one Ireland in Rugby Union?
[/quote]
Quite a lot of the sporting organisations didn't split when the country did in the 20s. So consequently there are all Ireland teams such as boxing, hockey and a few others. In my opinion it's a pity that there's two teams.
Why is there one Ireland in Rugby Union?
[/quote]
Quite a lot of the sporting organisations didn't split when the country did in the 20s. So consequently there are all Ireland teams such as boxing, hockey and a few others. In my opinion it's a pity that there's two teams.
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=48689.msg1482912#msg1482912 date=1329293289]
Oh right. But what were the reasons Football (and probably other sports) did split and some choose to play as one team?
I mean I obviously know where there ia RIO and NI but just curious why some sports 'split' and some didnt.
[/quote]I suspect it was because the likes of rugby, hockey etc were predominantly played by middle and upper classes, predominantly Protestants, both north and south of the border and therefore most members of the association were content to be part of one single body. In fact I suspect that the Protestants from the south of Ireland would have actively wanted to remain part of one single body as a means of "clinging to their Protestantism" in a Catholic dominated society.
Regarding football, it's roots were in the working classes and consequently there was a sectarian divide which spilled over into a split into two organisations, the FAI (Republic of Ireland) being the splinter group I think.
Someone else might have a different perspective on this and I am sure it not as simple as I have detailed but I suspect it is at least the base point for the original decisions to unify or split.
Oh right. But what were the reasons Football (and probably other sports) did split and some choose to play as one team?
I mean I obviously know where there ia RIO and NI but just curious why some sports 'split' and some didnt.
[/quote]I suspect it was because the likes of rugby, hockey etc were predominantly played by middle and upper classes, predominantly Protestants, both north and south of the border and therefore most members of the association were content to be part of one single body. In fact I suspect that the Protestants from the south of Ireland would have actively wanted to remain part of one single body as a means of "clinging to their Protestantism" in a Catholic dominated society.
Regarding football, it's roots were in the working classes and consequently there was a sectarian divide which spilled over into a split into two organisations, the FAI (Republic of Ireland) being the splinter group I think.
Someone else might have a different perspective on this and I am sure it not as simple as I have detailed but I suspect it is at least the base point for the original decisions to unify or split.
[quote author=the count link=topic=48689.msg1482919#msg1482919 date=1329296080]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=48689.msg1482912#msg1482912 date=1329293289]
Oh right. But what were the reasons Football (and probably other sports) did split and some choose to play as one team?
I mean I obviously know where there ia RIO and NI but just curious why some sports 'split' and some didnt.
[/quote]I suspect it was because the likes of rugby, hockey etc were predominantly played by middle and upper classes, predominantly Protestants, both north and south of the border and therefore most members of the association were content to be part of one single body. In fact I suspect that the Protestants from the south of Ireland would have actively wanted to remain part of one single body as a means of "clinging to their Protestantism" in a Catholic dominated society.
Regarding football, it's roots were in the working classes and consequently there was a sectarian divide which spilled over into a split into two organisations, the FAI (Republic of Ireland) being the splinter group I think.
Someone else might have a different perspective on this and I am sure it not as simple as I have detailed but I suspect it is at least the base point for the original decisions to unify or split.
[/quote]
I think you've explained that quite well Count. I didn't have a clue how to answer it.
It's a bit ironic that religion played a part in separating the teams when most of the main churches in Ireland are also organised on an all Ireland level.
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=48689.msg1482912#msg1482912 date=1329293289]
Oh right. But what were the reasons Football (and probably other sports) did split and some choose to play as one team?
I mean I obviously know where there ia RIO and NI but just curious why some sports 'split' and some didnt.
[/quote]I suspect it was because the likes of rugby, hockey etc were predominantly played by middle and upper classes, predominantly Protestants, both north and south of the border and therefore most members of the association were content to be part of one single body. In fact I suspect that the Protestants from the south of Ireland would have actively wanted to remain part of one single body as a means of "clinging to their Protestantism" in a Catholic dominated society.
Regarding football, it's roots were in the working classes and consequently there was a sectarian divide which spilled over into a split into two organisations, the FAI (Republic of Ireland) being the splinter group I think.
Someone else might have a different perspective on this and I am sure it not as simple as I have detailed but I suspect it is at least the base point for the original decisions to unify or split.
[/quote]
I think you've explained that quite well Count. I didn't have a clue how to answer it.
It's a bit ironic that religion played a part in separating the teams when most of the main churches in Ireland are also organised on an all Ireland level.
The Irish Football Association back then was based in Belfast so maybe that had something to do with it? The republic didn't want to have their football team based in the UK?
There are probably all kinds of reasons why individual teams decided to do different things.
Do that many players from Northern Ireland play for the Republic? And are there any from the Republic who have played for Northern Ireland?
To be honest, going by the most successful Ireland squads, I thought a lot in the Republic team were born in England anyway
There are probably all kinds of reasons why individual teams decided to do different things.
Do that many players from Northern Ireland play for the Republic? And are there any from the Republic who have played for Northern Ireland?
To be honest, going by the most successful Ireland squads, I thought a lot in the Republic team were born in England anyway
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=48689.msg1482922#msg1482922 date=1329296466]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48689.msg1482919#msg1482919 date=1329296080]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=48689.msg1482912#msg1482912 date=1329293289]
Oh right. But what were the reasons Football (and probably other sports) did split and some choose to play as one team?
I mean I obviously know where there ia RIO and NI but just curious why some sports 'split' and some didnt.
[/quote]I suspect it was because the likes of rugby, hockey etc were predominantly played by middle and upper classes, predominantly Protestants, both north and south of the border and therefore most members of the association were content to be part of one single body. In fact I suspect that the Protestants from the south of Ireland would have actively wanted to remain part of one single body as a means of "clinging to their Protestantism" in a Catholic dominated society.
Regarding football, it's roots were in the working classes and consequently there was a sectarian divide which spilled over into a split into two organisations, the FAI (Republic of Ireland) being the splinter group I think.
Someone else might have a different perspective on this and I am sure it not as simple as I have detailed but I suspect it is at least the base point for the original decisions to unify or split.
[/quote]
I think you've explained that quite well Count. I didn't have a clue how to answer it.
It's a bit ironic that religion played a part in separating the teams when most of the main churches in Ireland are also organised on an all Ireland level.
[/quote]Also Gaelic football, which would have been, and still is, predominantly and almost exclusively played by Catholics, is also organised on an island of Ireland basis.
Pretty much I think it was only when there was a significant proportion of both Catholic and Protestant participating in the sport that a split occurred.
[quote author=the count link=topic=48689.msg1482919#msg1482919 date=1329296080]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=48689.msg1482912#msg1482912 date=1329293289]
Oh right. But what were the reasons Football (and probably other sports) did split and some choose to play as one team?
I mean I obviously know where there ia RIO and NI but just curious why some sports 'split' and some didnt.
[/quote]I suspect it was because the likes of rugby, hockey etc were predominantly played by middle and upper classes, predominantly Protestants, both north and south of the border and therefore most members of the association were content to be part of one single body. In fact I suspect that the Protestants from the south of Ireland would have actively wanted to remain part of one single body as a means of "clinging to their Protestantism" in a Catholic dominated society.
Regarding football, it's roots were in the working classes and consequently there was a sectarian divide which spilled over into a split into two organisations, the FAI (Republic of Ireland) being the splinter group I think.
Someone else might have a different perspective on this and I am sure it not as simple as I have detailed but I suspect it is at least the base point for the original decisions to unify or split.
[/quote]
I think you've explained that quite well Count. I didn't have a clue how to answer it.
It's a bit ironic that religion played a part in separating the teams when most of the main churches in Ireland are also organised on an all Ireland level.
[/quote]Also Gaelic football, which would have been, and still is, predominantly and almost exclusively played by Catholics, is also organised on an island of Ireland basis.
Pretty much I think it was only when there was a significant proportion of both Catholic and Protestant participating in the sport that a split occurred.
To answer the original question, it's like people from Liverpool, those with ambition play for Liverpool, those without play for Everton.
There was a great short story I read years ago, Can't remember where, but it talked about Catholics seeing each other at Norn Iron games at Windsor back in the day, they'd quietly wink at each other and be on their way, knowing full well they shouldn't be there. I think if the North was to qualify for a tournament, you might see things change a little more quickly.
I remember as a kid, living in Dublin, cheering for the north in the 1982 and 1986 and feeling quite patriotic at the time. Don't ask me why. I remember the 11 minutes of extra time that the REF gave Spain (FIFA cheating again), when Gerry Armstrong put NI one goal up. I still remember those years fondly in fact. Armstrong and Hamilton, Norman Whiteside, Mal Donachy and more. I felt like we all shared in their success. IN fact I think it helped the ROI mentally realize they could finally fecking qualify for a tournament and finally it happened in 1988, when we beat England 1-0
.
My cousin a Catholic, played for Glentoran, and he was from Dublin, in 1994. I remember at the time, he got a mountain of abuse and he moved back to the League of Ireland not long after.
Ryan and the Count pretty much nailed everything else I think.
I remember as a kid, living in Dublin, cheering for the north in the 1982 and 1986 and feeling quite patriotic at the time. Don't ask me why. I remember the 11 minutes of extra time that the REF gave Spain (FIFA cheating again), when Gerry Armstrong put NI one goal up. I still remember those years fondly in fact. Armstrong and Hamilton, Norman Whiteside, Mal Donachy and more. I felt like we all shared in their success. IN fact I think it helped the ROI mentally realize they could finally fecking qualify for a tournament and finally it happened in 1988, when we beat England 1-0
. My cousin a Catholic, played for Glentoran, and he was from Dublin, in 1994. I remember at the time, he got a mountain of abuse and he moved back to the League of Ireland not long after.
Ryan and the Count pretty much nailed everything else I think.
Stumbled upon this video on youtube. It's about why some northern Irish players chose to play for the Republic.
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU-psUhg3QI&feature=related
Is it a coincidence that Gibson, Duffy and Mclean are all from Derry? I mean are there more nationalists there?
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU-psUhg3QI&feature=related
Is it a coincidence that Gibson, Duffy and Mclean are all from Derry? I mean are there more nationalists there?
Great town of WHAT?
Muff!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muff,_County_Donegal
http://www.muffdivingclub.ie/index.html
I have a personal love story to tell about this place!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muff,_County_Donegal
http://www.muffdivingclub.ie/index.html
I have a personal love story to tell about this place!
Heh, me too. A mate of mine at Uni was banging a chick from Muff, I was smashing her housemate - who actually wasn't from muff.
In retrospect, it's not that great a story actually.
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