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CL vs PL

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by Mo Mia, Feb 25, 2008.

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  1. Mo Mia

    Mo Mia Guest

    I know the debate has been done dozens of times and most of you want another league title more than anything.

    I too would prefer no. 19, but I don't share the urgency. I expect this football club to be around long after I've left this world. So if ManUre pass our record now it won't be the end of my world.

    Here's my question: Would you be willing to have Rafa here for the next 6 years and not win the title, if you knew we would win at least 2 more European Cups in that period?
     
  2. Ali

    Ali Prodigious Member

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    A BIG FUCKING NO!
     
  3. Oncy

    Oncy Guest

    No.
     
  4. Mo Mia

    Mo Mia Guest

    We must be the only team in Europe to have that mindset.
     
  5. Mo Mia

    Mo Mia Guest

    I'd gladly take 6 and 7 and hope that the next manager wins the league title. 6 years is nothing.
     
  6. FoxForceFive

    FoxForceFive Administrator Administrator

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    No.

    I understand the logic, but it doesnt make any sense to me.

    Someone on here said (maybe even you) that if we got rid of Rafa then we may get in a manager that is the same standard in the League & cant get us performing in Europe.

    That is the complete opposite of what we should want, you cant stick with 2nd best out of fear you'll never get better if you leave, you dont with romantic relationships, why should you with a different kind of relationship?
     
  7. Shadey

    Shadey Well-Known Member

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    A big no..
     
  8. Mo Mia

    Mo Mia Guest

    [quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=21058.msg501371#msg501371 date=1203975185]
    No.

    I understand the logic, but it doesnt make any sense to me.

    Someone on here said (maybe even you) that if we got rid of Rafa then we may get in a manager that is the same standard in the League & cant get us performing in Europe.

    That is the complete opposite of what we should want, you cant stick with 2nd best out of fear you'll never get better if you leave, you dont with romantic relationships, why should you with a different kind of relationship?
    [/quote]

    Yeah, the thing is that I could never call a manager who wins 3 European Cups in 9 years '2nd best'.

    I can't see supporters of any other club turning that down. Is it unsatisfactory to us because we feel we should be successful in both comps at the same time?

    Or is it just because we've had to wait so long and our record is in danger?
     
  9. FoxForceFive

    FoxForceFive Administrator Administrator

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    I see it as second best, cos we're not even challenging.

    Ironically, if we were 2nd in the league & within 6 points of the leaders I'd not consider it 'second best', cos we'd be challenging competitively on two fronts, but we're in danger of slipping out of the 'big four' & any real chances of running for the league at all, if we havent already, that, despite European success (the final counts for nothing if you lose, 1st loser means nothing) that's second best.
     
  10. Sheik Yerbouti

    Sheik Yerbouti Guest

    I'm staying out of this one.
     
  11. Mo Mia

    Mo Mia Guest

    [quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=21058.msg501380#msg501380 date=1203975964]
    I see it as second best, cos we're not even challenging.

    Ironically, if we were 2nd in the league & within 6 points of the leaders I'd not consider it 'second best', cos we'd be challenging competitively on two fronts, but we're in danger of slipping out of the 'big four' & any real chances of running for the league at all, if we havent already, that, despite European success (the final counts for nothing if you lose, 1st loser means nothing) that's second best.
    [/quote]

    Yeah, I see what you mean. I don't think we would go 6 years under Rafa without a challenge though.

    Interesting to see the different opinions.

    Is there anyone who would say yes?
     
  12. Dahuge

    Dahuge Very Active Member

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    Do you really know anything about our club.

    We are here to WIN the league, it is our foundation, the thing that made us the greatest club on the planet and led to us dominating English football for decades. It also is what led us to be the leaders in both terrace fashion, banners, witty songs etc...Without winning the league we wouldn't be where we are today.
     
  13. jexykrodic

    jexykrodic Well-Known Member

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    Given our current squad and spending power I don't see us winning the League in the near future.

    Even if we were to get Arsene Wenger as Manager next season, I still don't think we'd win it as things stand.

    We must upgrade the stadium and get extra revenue to compete. Money talks.

    We spent '91-'00 stagnating, relying on the mystical 'Liverpool Way' to ride on to the inevitable League win; no thought or action just blind belief.

    If we spent 10 years stagnating then I see no reason why it should be set right inside a further 10 years.

    From the appointment of Houllier (when we started to get professional), a further 10 years takes us to 2011, I don't see us winning it before.

    If in the meantime Benitez can lead us to further CL success I'd be delighted and probably incredulous given his resources and working environment.
     
  14. LeTallecWiz

    LeTallecWiz Mo(ssa)d Administrator

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    liverpool haven't won the league since i was 8.5 ... i would like to experience that as i can't remember anything about the leagues back then ... so i'll take the PL every time ...
     
  15. Richey

    Richey Well-Known Member

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    No. Benitez either has no idea how to even challenge for the league or he just doesn't care about the league, and I find both of these attitudes unacceptable.

    Winning cups is fantastic, don't get me wrong, but winning the league is the big one. Its the most difficult one to win and it is the true mark of being the best. Not even challenging for it makes you second best, regardless of how many cups you win.
     
  16. RolandG

    RolandG King Ding-A-Ling Member

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    I want us to win the CL as many times as possible. However, it must not come at the expense of the Premiership. Frankly, I think its a disgrace that we have yet to win a Premiership title. So what if we won 18 titles? That's history. Let's make a new history littered with silverware. I'm tired of milking the past glories and want new ones to celebrate. Istanbul should just be the start.

    More importantly, a return to the Liverpool Way is a must. In that I mean pass and move football. It makes me sick that Arsenal and United both exemplify on the field everything that Liverpool was.

    Too many excuses and mediocre players. The Board need to grow a set of balls and back the manager but only for the best possible players for the position. Go and get the best players for the positions that need strengthening (LB, LW, RW and another striker) and get players who will walk into the first team. We don't need squad players to make up the numbers when we can promote youngsters from the Reserves who have the potential (and there are many).
     
  17. mark1975

    mark1975 Moderator Moderator

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  18. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    [quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=21058.msg501543#msg501543 date=1204018237]
    Given our current squad and spending power I don't see us winning the League in the near future.

    Even if we were to get Arsene Wenger as Manager next season, I still don't think we'd win it as things stand.

    We must upgrade the stadium and get extra revenue to compete. Money talks.

    We spent '91-'00 stagnating, relying on the mystical 'Liverpool Way' to ride on to the inevitable League win; no thought or action just blind belief.

    If we spent 10 years stagnating then I see no reason why it should be set right inside a further 10 years.

    From the appointment of Houllier (when we started to get professional), a further 10 years takes us to 2011, I don't see us winning it before.

    If in the meantime Benitez can lead us to further CL success I'd be delighted and probably incredulous given his resources and working environment.
    [/quote]

    Excellent post Jexy. Too many unfulfilled and unrealistic expectations (I have them at the start of each season - well even before that this year, when we bought Torres) along the lines of that of DaHuge's post ..........

    ......... we have no divine right to the EPL and that type of thinking means that we are in danger of losing one of the world's top managers. There are never any guarantees of success but you can't just drop a manager of Benitez' standing without having an outstanding plan of action in place (the board showed this type of planning when retaining GH - for maybe one season too long - but with the intent of securing Rafa Benitez and I'm sure they had that plan of action in place long before actually releasing GH - they would have been utter fools not to have).

    I have to say that the phrasing of the original post by Mama Mia meant that the responses are a foregone conclusion. If it had been phrased more along the lines of ' IF Rafa continues our success in the CL how much longer would you be prepared to keep him as manager wihtout winning the PL ' ? Then there may have been more variation, or clarification, rather than the template response 'No' !

    I can understand the temptation to look for another solution to returning us to feast at the premiership high table, I've felt like throwing the towel in as far as Rafa is concerned more than once this season - he is so exasperating, but I'm just not so sure such a sure-fire solution exists. If it did it would be obvious to all and sundry .... and it's not. Again I pose the question, " who would replace Rafa" ? yet again I expect a blank response or discord among the ranks whenever a name is mentioned.
     
  19. Dahuge

    Dahuge Very Active Member

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    [quote author=Frogfish link=topic=21058.msg501593#msg501593 date=1204023541]
    [quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=21058.msg501543#msg501543 date=1204018237]
    Given our current squad and spending power I don't see us winning the League in the near future.

    Even if we were to get Arsene Wenger as Manager next season, I still don't think we'd win it as things stand.

    We must upgrade the stadium and get extra revenue to compete. Money talks.

    We spent '91-'00 stagnating, relying on the mystical 'Liverpool Way' to ride on to the inevitable League win; no thought or action just blind belief.

    If we spent 10 years stagnating then I see no reason why it should be set right inside a further 10 years.

    From the appointment of Houllier (when we started to get professional), a further 10 years takes us to 2011, I don't see us winning it before.

    If in the meantime Benitez can lead us to further CL success I'd be delighted and probably incredulous given his resources and working environment.
    [/quote]

    Excellent post Jexy. Too many unfulfilled and unrealistic expectations (I have them at the start of each season - well even before that this year, when we bought Torres) along the lines of that of DaHuge's post ..........

    ......... we have no divine right to the EPL and that type of thinking means that we are in danger of losing one of the world's top managers. There are never any guarantees of success but you can't just drop a manager of Benitez' standing without having an outstanding plan of action in place (the board showed this type of planning when retaining GH - for maybe one season too long - but with the intent of securing Rafa Benitez and I'm sure they had that plan of action in place long before actually releasing GH - they would have been utter fools not to have).

    I have to say that the phrasing of the original post by Mama Mia meant that the responses are a foregone conclusion. If it had been phrased more along the lines of ' IF Rafa continues our success in the CL how much longer would you be prepared to keep him as manager wihtout winning the PL ' ? Then there may have been more variation, or clarification, rather than the template response 'No' !

    I can understand the temptation to look for another solution to returning us to feast at the premiership high table, I've felt like throwing the towel in as far as Rafa is concerned more than once this season - he is so exasperating, but I'm just not so sure such a sure-fire solution exists. If it did it would be obvious to all and sundry .... and it's not. Again I pose the question, " who would replace Rafa" ? yet again I expect a blank response or discord among the ranks whenever a name is mentioned.


    [/quote]

    I didn't say we had a divine right to win it - winning it has built us to the position we are currently in i.e. the most successful club this country has ever seen. I never mentioned dropping benitez, i merely pointed out that we need to win the league nowhere did I make my position about rafa staying or going. Merely pointing out the league has to be our no1 priority - anyone who thinks otherwise is WRONG end of. Winning 2 cl trophies whilst absolutely superb and would give us more great nights is not what we as a club are about.

    The CL should come second to winning the league as it always has done and always should. The much fabled Liverpool way is all about winning the league in May.
     
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