Crouch and Torres Partnership

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=22418.msg538240#msg538240 date=1207746584]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=22418.msg538230#msg538230 date=1207746434]
Haha, blind optimism is probably more apt.
[/quote]

Nope I just believe in Rafa. He is driven and doesn't no the meaning of the word defeat.

He will get us there.
[/quote]

So the only job now is to vipe the word Draw out of his dictionary?

 

[Le Chacal]

We would have had 10 more points this season with this partnership up front.
Crouch kept the ball up front and his head deflections were very usefull and allowed Torres to score the 2nd goal.
Gerrard on the left was silly especially with a mediocre Alonso but I was happy to see the 2 up front.

When Rafa plays to try to win the game and attack, we see a fantastic game and what the Liverpool way is about.
With a formation like last night we could have challenged for the title.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538333#msg538333 date=1207748668]
We would have had 10 more points this season with this partnership up front.
Crouch kept the ball up front and his head deflections were very usefull and allowed Torres to score the 2nd goal.
Gerrard on the left was silly especially with a mediocre Alonso but I was happy to see the 2 up front.

When Rafa plays to try to win the game and attack, we see a fantastic game and what the Liverpool way is about.
With a formation like last night we could have challenged for the title.
[/quote]

That formation didn't really work, the partnership didn't work either.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538333#msg538333 date=1207748668]
We would have had 10 more points this season with this partnership up front. [/quote]

Ambitious.

 

[Le Chacal]

It didnt really work(defensively I would say) because of Gerrard on the left and Alonso in the middle.
Alonso is getting worse and worse and Lucas is not good enough. Mascher and Gerrard have to play in the middle behind 2 strikers. No more of this 451 shit.
The partnership up front worked really well, the 4 goals are the proof of it.
We need a right winger now and play attacking football like last night to have a chance to challenge with ManUtd.

We would have beaten Brum, Wigan and Villa at home + Blackburn and City away with these 2 up front.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538363#msg538363 date=1207749299]

The partnership up front worked really well, the 4 goals are the proof of it.

[/quote]

Two of which were scored when Crouch was off the pitch, you fucking dipstick.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=22418.msg538370#msg538370 date=1207749478]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538363#msg538363 date=1207749299]

The partnership up front worked really well, the 4 goals are the proof of it.

[/quote]

Two of which were scored when Crouch was off the pitch, you fucking dipstick.
[/quote]
And 2 of them were sored when he was on the pitch. The score was 2-1 when he wennt off. The partnership worked. Stop arguing for no reason Bren.

 

[manwithnoname]

And 2 of them were sored when he was on the pitch. The score was 2-1 when he wennt off. The partnership worked. Stop arguing for no reason Bren.

No, hang on a sec you fucking scoper, you said the four goals were "proof". That's clearly bollocks, because half of the goals you have offered up as proof were scored when Crouch had been taken off.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=22418.msg538343#msg538343 date=1207748856]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538333#msg538333 date=1207748668]
We would have had 10 more points this season with this partnership up front.
Crouch kept the ball up front and his head deflections were very usefull and allowed Torres to score the 2nd goal.
Gerrard on the left was silly especially with a mediocre Alonso but I was happy to see the 2 up front.

When Rafa plays to try to win the game and attack, we see a fantastic game and what the Liverpool way is about.
With a formation like last night we could have challenged for the title.
[/quote]

That formation didn't really work, the partnership didn't work either.
[/quote]

It did get us the second goal.

 

[foureyes]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538363#msg538363 date=1207749299]
It didnt really work(defensively I would say) because of Gerrard on the left and Alonso in the middle.
Alonso is getting worse and worse and Lucas is not good enough. Mascher and Gerrard have to play in the middle behind 2 strikers. No more of this 451 shit.
The partnership up front worked really well, the 4 goals are the proof of it.
We need a right winger now and play attacking football like last night to have a chance to challenge with ManUtd.

We would have beaten Brum, Wigan and Villa at home + Blackburn and City away with these 2 up front.
[/quote]

Why not? It has worked for us. For the 15 mins or so we switched back to that formation we scored twice.

 

[Le Chacal]

: Never mind Bren.
The partnership worked.
Dont you think the 70 minutes of hard work and harassing a defense from our strikers is one of the reason why Babel had the chance to create a lot of problems which resulted in 2 more goals?

 

[manwithnoname]

It did get us the second goal.

I'm not 100% sure how vital Crouch's contribution really was, Dreamy old chum.

Still, if you think I'm talking codswallop, that is your prerogative.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538392#msg538392 date=1207750295]
: Never mind Bren.
The partnership worked.
Dont you think the 70 minutes of hard work and harassing a defense from our strikers is one of the reason why Babel had the chance to create a lot of problems which resulted in 2 more goals?
[/quote]

Oh do fuck off, you backtracking fuckwit.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=foureyes link=topic=22418.msg538388#msg538388 date=1207750161]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538363#msg538363 date=1207749299]
It didnt really work(defensively I would say) because of Gerrard on the left and Alonso in the middle.
Alonso is getting worse and worse and Lucas is not good enough. Mascher and Gerrard have to play in the middle behind 2 strikers. No more of this 451 shit.
The partnership up front worked really well, the 4 goals are the proof of it.
We need a right winger now and play attacking football like last night to have a chance to challenge with ManUtd.

We would have beaten Brum, Wigan and Villa at home + Blackburn and City away with these 2 up front.
[/quote]

Why not? It has worked for us. For the 15 mins or so we switched back to that formation we scored twice.
[/quote]
Because we will lose 3 nil against ManU every fucking single time with this 451 and the reason why I think Rafa will never bring us the title.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=22418.msg538397#msg538397 date=1207750403]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538392#msg538392 date=1207750295]
: Never mind Bren.
The partnership worked.
Dont you think the 70 minutes of hard work and harassing a defense from our strikers is one of the reason why Babel had the chance to create a lot of problems which resulted in 2 more goals?
[/quote]

Oh do fuck off, you backtracking fuckwit.
[/quote]
Spoilt kid.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538398#msg538398 date=1207750416]

Because we will lose 3 nil against ManU every fucking single time with this 451 [/quote]

If by "every fucking single time" you mean once, then you are correct.

 

[foureyes]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538398#msg538398 date=1207750416]
[quote author=foureyes link=topic=22418.msg538388#msg538388 date=1207750161]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538363#msg538363 date=1207749299]
It didnt really work(defensively I would say) because of Gerrard on the left and Alonso in the middle.
Alonso is getting worse and worse and Lucas is not good enough. Mascher and Gerrard have to play in the middle behind 2 strikers. No more of this 451 shit.
The partnership up front worked really well, the 4 goals are the proof of it.
We need a right winger now and play attacking football like last night to have a chance to challenge with ManUtd.

We would have beaten Brum, Wigan and Villa at home + Blackburn and City away with these 2 up front.
[/quote]

Why not? It has worked for us. For the 15 mins or so we switched back to that formation we scored twice.
[/quote]
Because we will lose 3 nil against ManU every fucking single time with this 451 and the reason why I think Rafa will never bring us the title.
[/quote]

And what about the fact we were playing dire ineffective football until Rafa started with the 4-2-3-1 formation, after which we had a tremendous run of something like 8 or 9 straight wins. To say the formation is shit on the back of one result at Old Trafford is ridiculous.

 

[Le Chacal]

He has played this 4-5-1 many times earlier in the season. Cautious and boring football that gave us too many draws especially at home.

 

[foureyes]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=22418.msg538435#msg538435 date=1207751826]
He has played this 4-5-1 many times earlier in the season. Cautious and boring football that gave us too many draws especially at home.
[/quote]

I must be getting old. I'm pretty sure there is a thread somewhere earlier on today that states that the formation is pretty new and was debating whether Rafa had intended it all along etc. I'm pretty sure the 4-2-3-1 thing is something we have not played 'many times' this season. And when we did start with it, it brought success.

 

[Whitey85]

With a bit of luck this could be one of my favourite summers. We could get rid of Crouch, Kewell and Pennant and make me very happy indeed. Hopefully toss like Leto can leave aswell. Heres hoping anyway.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=22418.msg538459#msg538459 date=1207752504]
With a bit of luck this could be one of my favourite summers. We could get rid of Crouch, Kewell and Pennant and make me very happy indeed. Hopefully toss like Leto can leave aswell. Heres hoping anyway.
[/quote]

Yup.

With regards to Leto, I'm amazed that we didn't let him leave on loan to River Plate / Spain given that he couldn't play for us in any capacity.

 

[LadyRed]

Anyone who thinks the formation, with Gerrard playing LM and Crouch and Torres upfront together came off, needs to go home and re-watch the first half, cos from where I was sitting, they were all over us in the forst half. By the start of the second half Gerrard seemed to have taken it upon himself to position himself in a more central role, which helped. But Torres was still being forced wide and away from that space straight down the middle as it was occupied by Crouch.

Rafa said a couple of weeks ago he was using 4231 to get the best of the Torres/Gerrard understanding, and he's been right for doing so. I don't know why he decided to mess it that.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=22418.msg538512#msg538512 date=1207753461]
Anyone who thinks the formation, with Gerrard playing LM and Crouch and Torres upfront together came off, needs to go home and re-watch the first half, cos from where I was sitting, they were all over us in the forst half. By the start of the second half Gerrard seemed to have taken it upon himself to position himself in a more central role, which helped. But Torres was still being forced wide and away from that space straight down the middle as it was occupied by Crouch.

Rafa said a couple of weeks ago he was using 4231 to get the best of the Torres/Gerrard understanding, and he's been right for doing so. I don't know why he decided to mess it that.
[/quote]

i don't think you will find anyone anita who says gerrard's role worked last night although I don't think you can blame his "ROLE" for constantly mis placing passes, thats just having a bad night.

Xabi, Masher and Stevie were all shite last night, never seen them give the ball away so much, nerves, over excited I do not know.

I cam concentrating on whether using Crouch and Torres as a 2 can work with more work.

I still think Torres on his own up top would struggle against TOP defences like chavs and Mancs, we will see of course in the next month or so.

Neither Babel or Kuyt are wingers which does not help the case for crouch of course as crosses to him must be one of the reasons for playing him. We did not cross enough to the big fella.

Babel is becoming a bit of a OGS/walcott who look s better from the bench when folk are a bit tired and he can exploit that, he dissapoints me from the start.

Rafa has a lot of thinking to do and if he wins us the CL he will have to do some master coaching especially to beat mancs in the final.

I wish Rafa was as good in the PL :'(

 

[rebel23]

was thinking about this before

the 451 is enough to blow most teams in the league away but against the top teams they can isolate Torres. we should therefore play Crouch which gives them something else to worry about, throw caution to the wind, pump up long balls and shit.. we may not be able to match Arsenal's passing intensity or United's skill but with Crouch i think we're far more likely to win 'ugly' rather than be destroyed and offer nothing against the top teams offensively as we saw at Old trafford

the problem is where do you play Gerrard, in the middle with Masher or on the right/left etc. either way I think we should recognize that the 451 won't always work if we want to play (and beat) United/Arsenal/Chelsea, we should consider playing Crouch and cause them some problems and bring about a 'mad game' like last night, it's far more likely to resultt in a victory for Liverpool. i'd love us to do that in the final in May if we face Utd, no guts no glory just make it a mad insane game, we usually prevail in them rather than a tight cagey tactical affair where the mancs pinch a 1-0

 

[manwithnoname]

the problem is where do you play Gerrard, in the middle with Masher or on the right/left etc. either way I think we should recognize that the 451 won't always work if we want to play (and beat) United/Arsenal/Chelsea, we should consider playing Crouch and cause them some problems and bring about a 'mad game' like last night, it's far more likely to resultt in a victory for Liverpool. i'd love us to do that in the final in May if we face Utd, no guts no glory just make it a mad insane game, we usually prevail in them rather than a tight cagey tactical affair where the mancs pinch a 1-0

We have a manager who has built his entire career on "tight and cagey".
We are a club that has built an entire European history on "tight and cagey"

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=22418.msg538721#msg538721 date=1207763061]

the problem is where do you play Gerrard, in the middle with Masher or on the right/left etc. either way I think we should recognize that the 451 won't always work if we want to play (and beat) United/Arsenal/Chelsea, we should consider playing Crouch and cause them some problems and bring about a 'mad game' like last night, it's far more likely to resultt in a victory for Liverpool. i'd love us to do that in the final in May if we face Utd, no guts no glory just make it a mad insane game, we usually prevail in them rather than a tight cagey tactical affair where the mancs pinch a 1-0

We have a manager who has built his entire career on "tight and cagey".
We are a club that has built an entire European history on "tight and cagey"
[/quote]

funny then how he played 3 strikers last night and wanted that mad game scenario where we usuall prevail, sometimes it's good to surprise opponents, against United Ferdinand can easily deal with Torres but if Crouch is backingg into his partner it will cause more problems, if we play the top teams we should make it a slightly more open game


if it doesn't work it can always be changed though last night i did want some changes earlier than what was carried out but it's an interesting tactic

 

[Fox]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=22418.msg538717#msg538717 date=1207762859]
was thinking about this before

the 451 is enough to blow most teams in the league away but against the top teams they can isolate Torres. we should therefore play Crouch which gives them something else to worry about, throw caution to the wind, pump up long balls and shit.. we may not be able to match Arsenal's passing intensity or United's skill but with Crouch i think we're far more likely to win 'ugly' rather than be destroyed and offer nothing against the top teams offensively as we saw at Old trafford

the problem is where do you play Gerrard, in the middle with Masher or on the right/left etc. either way I think we should recognize that the 451 won't always work if we want to play (and beat) United/Arsenal/Chelsea, we should consider playing Crouch and cause them some problems and bring about a 'mad game' like last night, it's far more likely to resultt in a victory for Liverpool. i'd love us to do that in the final in May if we face Utd, no guts no glory just make it a mad insane game, we usually prevail in them rather than a tight cagey tactical affair where the mancs pinch a 1-0


[/quote]

the difference is of course the semi is two legs and the final a one off so possibly different tactics, plus Kewell will be in for that one ;D

I worry about two things for the CL from now on.

a) our ability to defend set pieces with chelsea especially
b) our ability to create chances against UTD with Torres up top on his own

Rafa has to earn his keep to win it for us this year, then even I will not moan about him having another crack at the league.