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Have we really spent our money well?

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You're right, lucas isn't a natural DM, he was a goal getting midfielder in brazil and has been slowly turned into a serviceable DM who has the ability to read a game

Spearing is very much in the mascher mold

Thats not a compliment by the way. Hes like mascher in the way he ran about a lot and flung himself everywhere. Mash could actually read a game on top of this
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401935#msg1401935 date=1316445192]
You're right, lucas isn't a natural DM, he was a goal getting midfielder in brazil and has been slowly turned into a serviceable DM who has the ability to read a game

Spearing is very much in the mascher mold

Thats not a compliment by the way. Hes like mascher in the way he ran about a lot and flung himself everywhere. Mash could actually read a game on top of this
[/quote]

I don't think Lucas was exactly a goal getting midfielder with flair. But I get the point.

Spearing is better than you give him credit for. He's like a poor man's Mascherano and not as unintelligent or tactically naive as you seem to suggest. Don't forget that he's still 22 and that last year was his first real stint in the time. Lucas at 22 was utter turd. If we show the kind of perseverance with Spearing as we've shown with Lucas, I reckon Spearing will be a well better player.

Anyhow, that's moot because I agree that we need better than Spearing. But for the time being, I would seriously advocate starting him regularly.
 
i think spearing and lucas should start together. Lucas is good at sitting back and has an expert range of passing now and slowly cutting things out and spearing is good at forcing an error with his limitless energy and desire for the ball. i said it at the time last year, combine the two and we have a world class DM. ITs why fundamentally we played well in the last 6 months of the season. Nothing could get round them as they both knew their role and implemented it expertly.

This season lucas isn't getting any support defensively from adam who doesn't move around enough, and (if i'm proved wrong then fair does) spearing wouldn't have the ability to read the game as well as lucas. I think with our current squad (i.e. gerrard still out) we should line up thusly:

Lucas
spearing
Adam
Suarez Downing
Carroll/Kuyt

When stevie is fit bin adam off. Until we get a perfectly able DM i think it should be those 2. Then it should be the new DM with adam/lucas as their passing is better than what spearing offers.
 
Yeah, the problem with Lucas is that we thought we were getting a banjo thundersnake, a real testosterface, but it turns out he's a bin full of dicks.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=46910.msg1401945#msg1401945 date=1316445983]
Agree, Fabio is being very harsh on Spearing.
He's effective as a DM
[/quote]

i just don't see what he has done to deserve to be picked ahead of lucas. NOW he breaks into our first team at 22. Lucas at least was captain of the brazil under 21s and a regular for his national side. WTF has jay done? Did he even get picked much for the u-21s?

Hes shown me he can run about. Hes shown me no eye for goal, no ability to force a man off a ball and no ability to read a game. The one thing i know he did was win us a dodgy pen at the stadium of light
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401943#msg1401943 date=1316445950]
i think spearing and lucas should start together. Lucas is good at sitting back and has an expert range of passing now and slowly cutting things out and spearing is good at forcing an error with his limitless energy and desire for the ball. i said it at the time last year, combine the two and we have a world class DM. ITs why fundamentally we played well in the last 6 months of the season. Nothing could get round them as they both knew their role and implemented it expertly.

This season lucas isn't getting any support defensively from adam who doesn't move around enough, and (if i'm proved wrong then fair does) spearing wouldn't have the ability to read the game as well as lucas. I think with our current squad (i.e. gerrard still out) we should line up thusly:

Lucas
spearing
Adam
Suarez Downing
Carroll/Kuyt

When stevie is fit bin adam off. Until we get a perfectly able DM i think it should be those 2. Then it should be the new DM with adam/lucas as their passing is better than what spearing offers.
[/quote]

Lucas, Spearing and Gerrard should be our midfield trio IMO. That offers us the best balance currently.

With Henderson developing as an understudy to Gerrard, and Jonjo being brought into the fray with a view to develop him in the central playmaking role.

As for Adam, I'm beginning to have serious doubts. I actually thought he'd be a value for money signing, but until he shows that he can be mobile and economical in possession and offer something more to us than just his set pieces, I'm actually worried he might be prove to be a liability.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401949#msg1401949 date=1316446146]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=46910.msg1401945#msg1401945 date=1316445983]
Agree, Fabio is being very harsh on Spearing.
He's effective as a DM
[/quote]

i just don't see what he has done to deserve to be picked ahead of lucas. NOW he breaks into our first team at 22. Lucas at least was captain of the brazil under 21s and a regular for his national side. WTF has jay done? Did he even get picked much for the u-21s?

Hes shown me he can run about. Hes shown me no eye for goal, no ability to force a man off a ball and no ability to read a game. The one thing i know he did was win us a dodgy pen at the stadium of light
[/quote]

That's extremely harsh and mostly untrue/wrong.
 
I don't think it's as clear cut as one over the other. It's about who's better suited for the game at hand. With Spearing it's clear cut, he does exactly what it says on the tin, Lucas is a bit of an all rounder, he does a bit of everything. For a game like yesterday's, away from home, when we know the opposition are going to have a lot of the ball we need someone who's going to be a bit more physical and disrupt the opposition from playing their game, someone who can win the ball back for us.

Away from home, I'd almost always play Spearing with Adam, Lucas or Gerrard.
 
So we're in agreement. Our midfield 3 should be lucas, spearing and gerrard (as you see i only said adam because stevie is still out)

I'm just sick to fucking death of people saying we should drop lucas when in actuality he's done nothing wrong this season or last. People would rather plop spearing in with adam for fucking assistance. It'd end in a massacre for us
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401956#msg1401956 date=1316446534]
So we're in agreement. Our midfield 3 should be lucas, spearing and gerrard (as you see i only said adam because stevie is still out)

I'm just sick to fucking death of people saying we should drop lucas when in actuality he's done nothing wrong this season or last. People would rather plop spearing in with adam for fucking assistance. It'd end in a massacre for us
[/quote]

No, I actually rate Lucas more than Adam. And I'm surprised as hell that I'm saying this given how vocal I have been in my criticism of Lucas in the past. But bar his set pieces, Adam so far has been really really poor. And I don't think I'm exaggerating here.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=46910.msg1401954#msg1401954 date=1316446449]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401949#msg1401949 date=1316446146]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=46910.msg1401945#msg1401945 date=1316445983]
Agree, Fabio is being very harsh on Spearing.
He's effective as a DM
[/quote]

i just don't see what he has done to deserve to be picked ahead of lucas. NOW he breaks into our first team at 22. Lucas at least was captain of the brazil under 21s and a regular for his national side. WTF has jay done? Did he even get picked much for the u-21s?

Hes shown me he can run about. Hes shown me no eye for goal, no ability to force a man off a ball and no ability to read a game. The one thing i know he did was win us a dodgy pen at the stadium of light
[/quote]

That's extremely harsh and mostly untrue/wrong.
[/quote]

whats untrue or wrong?
 
Oh yeah Fabio, I have no issue with Lucas, I have an issue with the fact we have no balance in CM and it becomes painfully clear in a game like yesterdays. We need a DM, I dont care who's cost he comes in at, as long as it's not Stevie.

And really the lack of DM is what's been killing Lucas' game.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401965#msg1401965 date=1316447174]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=46910.msg1401954#msg1401954 date=1316446449]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401949#msg1401949 date=1316446146]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=46910.msg1401945#msg1401945 date=1316445983]
Agree, Fabio is being very harsh on Spearing.
He's effective as a DM
[/quote]

i just don't see what he has done to deserve to be picked ahead of lucas. NOW he breaks into our first team at 22. Lucas at least was captain of the brazil under 21s and a regular for his national side. WTF has jay done? Did he even get picked much for the u-21s?

Hes shown me he can run about. Hes shown me no eye for goal, no ability to force a man off a ball and no ability to read a game. The one thing i know he did was win us a dodgy pen at the stadium of light
[/quote]

That's extremely harsh and mostly untrue/wrong.
[/quote]

whats untrue or wrong?
[/quote]

He's shown an ability to tackle, and win the ball. And he's shown it pretty well. He's also a very tidy passer (much better than Lucas was at 22) and not unintelligent. He's had about 10-15 games in the first team at the most. It's too soon to judge whether he can read the game or not. He's also shown tremendous energy and a willingness to burst forward at times. He's technically decent, and even has a decent shot on him.

Lucas on the other hand at 22 didn't even look like a professional footballer. He's improved tremendously but people forget how truly woeful he was.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=46910.msg1401978#msg1401978 date=1316448682]
You lot should just be telling Sven to fuck off, btw.
[/quote]

Quite.
 
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