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Hillsborough debate live on bbc parliment now

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You think that after the Bradford disaster the authorities (the FA, government etc) would of made stadiums safer. Why did they have to wait for a SECOND disaster before anything was done?
 
Cos football fans didn't matter then. They barely matter now despite being a completely different demographic.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47202.msg1414056#msg1414056 date=1319029054]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47202.msg1414053#msg1414053 date=1319028384]
Good luck then, Richey. I've had a couple of letters published in the Sports pages in my time but have never made it on to the Letters Page proper.
[/quote]

How many have you sent to the proper letters page?

I did get one published in the Evening Standard recently and have had a few in local papers (although I suspect they are just happy to get any letters at all!) but never written to a national one.
[/quote]

Have sent about half a dozen over the years at a guess, admittedly not a lot, but I've heard of people - not necessarily retired High Court judges either - getting published on their third or fourth attempt. I used to be quite prolific in the local paper on nuclear disarmament when that debate was still current (I opposed CND, to the extent of debating with them on local radio on my birthday) and more recently on the idea of Britain joining the euro (you'll not be surprised to hear I was against that) but reined things in as I progressed to more senior jobs within the local authority hereabouts.
 
My own experience of Hillsborough, as someone who got there well before 3pm, was that me and my friends both tried to get into the side pens but were told we weren't allowed to. I've read in the past couple of days that there's an idea that most people headed for the central pens - well I didn't, I headed for the far left but was told by a young policeman that everyone was to go through the into the middle and separate once in. I hardly ever talk about that day (what's the point?) but when I hear people talk about everything that happened I'm surprised more people don't mention this. By the time we got through the tunnel it was already very busy and there was no way to turn round and head back to the small gates at the back of the pens that allowed access between them. I remember shrugging at my mate as we flowed like lava past. The thing is, we were kids and preferred to watch the game rather than get thrown around the center of a crowd, and we always used to head for the front left wherever we went - so maybe hardly anyone else had tried to get away from the middle pen.
 
The game should never have been played there in the first place. The same two teams had played the same game at the same ground the previous season and there had been problems then. The FA were warned and asked to switch the game to another ground. They refused. While the police made a fatal mess of things on the day, it was the FA who presented them with a near-impossible job to do in the first place. Some individuals who worked for that organisation at the time must have been mightily relieved to see everybody else's attention given to other factors, and other people's mistakes, ever since.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47202.msg1414101#msg1414101 date=1319037194]

Have sent about half a dozen over the years at a guess, admittedly not a lot, but I've heard of people - not necessarily retired High Court judges either - getting published on their third or fourth attempt. I used to be quite prolific in the local paper on nuclear disarmament when that debate was still current (I opposed CND, to the extent of debating with them on local radio on my birthday) and more recently on the idea of Britain joining the euro (you'll not be surprised to hear I was against that) but reined things in as I progressed to more senior jobs within the local authority hereabouts.
[/quote]

Haha. I suspect you will be keeping a close eye on the EU referendum debate next week?

I only really write to the local papers now to respond when the local Labour party have said something stupid, which they frequently do. If they want to hear my opinion on something else they've got my number!

I didn't write to the Times in the end. Just looking around the internet I'm sure there will be plenty of others who could put the argument better than I could
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47202.msg1414176#msg1414176 date=1319056032]
The game should never have been played there in the first place. The same two teams had played the same game at the same ground the previous season and there had been problems then. The FA were warned and asked to switch the game to another ground. They refused. While the police made a fatal mess of things on the day, it was the FA who presented them with a near-impossible job to do in the first place. Some individuals who worked for that organisation at the time must have been mightily relieved to see everybody else's attention given to other factors, and other people's mistakes, ever since.
[/quote]

Considering who Forest beat to get to the sems it always annoys me when I hear Mancs mouth off about Hillsborough as well
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47202.msg1414176#msg1414176 date=1319056032]
The game should never have been played there in the first place. The same two teams had played the same game at the same ground the previous season and there had been problems then. The FA were warned and asked to switch the game to another ground. They refused. While the police made a fatal mess of things on the day, it was the FA who presented them with a near-impossible job to do in the first place. Some individuals who worked for that organisation at the time must have been mightily relieved to see everybody else's attention given to other factors, and other people's mistakes, ever since.
[/quote]

I was also at the Sheff Weds game in 1988 where we won 5-0 just before the Wimbledon final and there was crushing at the turnstiles before that game. Slow tunrstiles and the police using horses to push you closer to the turnstiles.
 
Kenneth Dalglish
Thank you to everyone whatever team you support for helping the families move closer to getting justice.

Kenneth Dalglish
Congratulations and thanks to Steve Rotherham and Andy Burn ham for bringing so much hope to many people who have suffered too long.
 
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2011/10/20/former-sun-editor-kelvin-mackenzie-set-to-be-grilled-in-commons-over-hillsborough-slurs-100252-29627328/

KELVIN MacKENZIE faces a Commons grilling over the Hillsborough slurs.

The cross-party culture, media and sport select committee has specifically asked the former Sun editor to attend a special session later this year, according to Westminster sources.

And that session could also include other former and/or present News International executives.

Walton MP Steve Rotheram said: “Even if MacKenzie is called, the question is will he attend? He is just the sort of man who would try to weasel out if it.


“I’d love him to repeat the slurs so he is open to intensive cross-examination.”

MacKenzie was editor in 1989 when he published “The Truth” about the disaster.

This week, the Commons voted to ensure that all Cabinet papers from the time are published in full, partly to identify the source of the briefings on which those lies were told.

The select committee follows a point of order raised immediately after Monday’s Hillsborough debate by High Peak Conservative Andrew Bingham.

He said: “Would it be in order for the select committee to ask News International to come before it to answer questions about activities back in 1989?”

The select committee in July grilled Rupert and James Murdoch on the News of the World hacking scandal.

Today’s Commons order paper includes a motion from St Helens North MP Dave Watts echoing the latest Hillsborough e-petition demanding a full and unreserved apology from MacKenzie.

MacKenzie was due yesterday to review the newspapers for Sky’s early morning programme.

It is not yet clear whether he pulled out or whether the company pulled the plug.

MacKenzie and News International have so far refused to comment on this week’s Hillsborough developments.

Meanwhile, David Cameron yesterday acknowledged that Hillsborough was “a national disaster”.

In response to questioning from Mr Rotheram, he repeated his promise that all government documents relating to the disaster will be published in full.

But Mr Rotheram urged the Prime Minister to admit governments had made mistakes over the tragedy.

Concern has focused on briefings given to then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and her Cabinet.

Mr Rotheram added: “If it’s proven that there was an orchestrated cover-up, despite two decades passing, justice should still prevail and those really responsible for the Hillsborough disaster should be brought to book.”

Mr Cameron told him: “I’m hugely sympathetic for the families of the victims and I am sure there are regrets for all the institutions involved at the time, including the government.”
 
If MacKenzie's called, surely he'll have to attend or be in contempt of Parliament, for which he could be put in chokey.

I really, really hope they follow through on this and hang the fat b@stard out to dry.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47202.msg1414479#msg1414479 date=1319142617]
If MacKenzie's called, surely he'll have to attend or be in contempt of Parliament, for which he could be put in chokey.

I really, really hope they follow through on this and hang the fat b@stard out to dry.


[/quote]

The biggest "THIS" ever !
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47202.msg1414176#msg1414176 date=1319056032]
The game should never have been played there in the first place. The same two teams had played the same game at the same ground the previous season and there had been problems then. The FA were warned and asked to switch the game to another ground. They refused. While the police made a fatal mess of things on the day, it was the FA who presented them with a near-impossible job to do in the first place. Some individuals who worked for that organisation at the time must have been mightily relieved to see everybody else's attention given to other factors, and other people's mistakes, ever since.
[/quote]

All they had to do was switch which set of fans got which terreced end... We had more fans and tickets than they did - If they'd given them the smaller Leppings Lane end and us the Kop, it never would have happened.

But they claimed that they feared the potential for trouble as the two sets of fans walked pass each other, en route to their respective terreaces.
 
Absolutely right, old pal, and it was then that they were asked to switch the game to another ground instead, but said no. From that point on this was a disaster waiting to happen.
 
But even after all those fuck ups there would have been no disaster if anyone working there knew the ground. As I say, it wasn't that the other pen's gates weren't signed adequately, it's that you weren't even allowed to go in them.
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47202.msg1414576#msg1414576 date=1319186744]
But even after all those fuck ups there would have been no disaster if anyone working there knew the ground. As I say, it wasn't that the other pen's gates weren't signed adequately, it's that you weren't even allowed to go in them.
[/quote]

Yep.
 
Oh and if Mackenzie is hung out to dry in the not so distant future I might consider some sort of streak to celebrate.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47202.msg1414634#msg1414634 date=1319196863]
Oh and if Mackenzie is hung out to dry in the not so distant future I might consider some sort of streak to celebrate.
[/quote]

*conflicted*
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47202.msg1414576#msg1414576 date=1319186744]
But even after all those fuck ups there would have been no disaster if anyone working there knew the ground. As I say, it wasn't that the other pen's gates weren't signed adequately, it's that you weren't even allowed to go in them.
[/quote]

Damn right - we went in 30 mins before kickoff and were directed straight into the central pen. Actually climbed over the fence and into the left hand side pen about 10 mins before the start and the difference was amazing. As I said afterwards I could have spun around with my arms outstrecthed and not touched anyone in that pen, while just feet away from us ... :(
 
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