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Klopp vs past managerial legends

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by peekay, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. peekay

    peekay Well-Known Member

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    I know we have a couple of posts on Klopp but I wanted to focus on two aspects. First, if you were to rank our past managerial legends, where would you place Klopp.

    Caveat: I love all of our managers with the exception of Hodgson. They all gave their everything for this club and I only have best wishes for all of them. So let us now turn this into a Rafa vs Houllier vs Rodgers fight.

    It is difficult to beat Shankly and Paisley. Shankly for laying the foundations for modern Liverpool, the ethos, the culture, and Uncle Bob for his ridiculous success. Just can't argue with that trophy count.

    I would place Klopp just below them in the list above Fagan and King Kenny. Again, I am not comparing against King Kenny the man whose contributions to our club are huge but King Kenny, the manager.

    Second, where would you place Klopp in the list of brilliant managerial achievements in football. Most good to great managers often have one brilliant achievement where they get a club to punch above their weight and then move onto more comfortable jobs where they can pad up their resumes by winning trophies.

    Has anyone got two underdogs in two different tough leagues against financial behemoths to win the league? That too playing breathtaking football, making deep runs in champions league also.
     
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  2. Gerry_A_Trick

    Gerry_A_Trick Very Well-Known Member

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    Paisley
    Shanks
    Kenny
    Klopp
    Fagan
    Rafa
    Houllier
    Dunno

    Klopp will likely overtake Kenny, actually not sure on my rationale on having Kenny higher is, other than he's the King.
     
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  3. Fabio

    Fabio Former mod, consistent c*** Honorary Member

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    Makes sense to me. Player, then manager, and a human being during Hillsborough.

    I'd like to think we were more than just trophies at times
     
  4. Gerry_A_Trick

    Gerry_A_Trick Very Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Klopp feels like he's from the same ilk, so can see him overtaking him, but happy with that top four anyway.

    Could argue over Fagan Vs Rafa too. Funnily enough, if Rafa hadn't been around as long, he'd be above Fagan.
     
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  5. Dreambeliever

    Dreambeliever Looking on the brightside Member

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    Shanks
    Paisley
    Klopp
    Rafa
    Kenny
    Fagan
    Ged
    Rodgers
    Evans
    Souness
    Roy
     
  6. RedStar

    RedStar Well-Known Member

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    The first 2 places are taken and essentially untouchable. Place them in whatever order you like but Shankly built the modern Liverpool Football Club and then Bob took us to being most dominant team in the world for the best part of a decade. Nobody is getting ahead of that.

    Everybody else is playing for 3rd place. For me Id have Kenny tied with Klopp at 3rd. But I firmly believe Klopp will overtake him. Kenny means more to the club, he has a place in our hearts that goes beyond football, but evaluating purely as managers I think Klopp is better and will prove it over time. He probably needs one more major trophy to put him over Kenny into 3rd place.

    You also have to factor in that Fagan and Kenny were fortunate enough to take over a well oiled machine that needed to be maintained and tweaked. By comparison Klopp and Rafa were building from a much lower starting position.

    My top 10
    1. Shanks
    2. Paisley
    3. Kenny
    =  Klopp
    5. Rafa
    6. Fagan
    7. Houllier
    8. Rodgers
    9. Evans
    10. Souness
     
  7. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie Active Member

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    Don't have a top 10.

    1. Shankly, 2. Paisley, 3. Dalglish, 4. Klopp, 5. Fagan, 6. Rafa, 7. Houllier, 8. Evans and 9. Souness. The theme here is trophies and then ethos. Souness should ranked higher than Evans, but ethos wise, I'd prefer Evans way of playing and even though the plan is to go all out attack. I can never rate Rodgers among these men because he is way too self centred, not understanding the club and its supporters and felt like snake oil salesman to me when he speaks. He is also heavily relied on Suarez and Sturridge, and even though money was given to him to reinvest, he went ahead and spend it on shit players that he knows. Not willing to field players that he doesn't know, and not to say he knows a lot of them like Rafa and Houllier before him.
     
  8. tombrown

    tombrown Very Well-Known Member

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    Rafa above Kenny ... seriously?
     
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  9. LeTallecWiz

    LeTallecWiz Mo(ssa)d Administrator

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    How can Watson not be ahead of Rafa?  Houllier?  The man who actually put us on the map as a foobtalling force to be reckoned with (and actually won leagues) should be ahead of those 2 imo.

    Brief history from wiki:

    During his time at Liverpool, he won the league on a further two occasions, in 1900–01 and 1905–06. Those were the first two champion titles in Liverpool history. He therefore became the first manager to lead two different clubs to the League Championship. There have been only three others since; Herbert Chapman, Brian Clough and Sir Kenny Dalglish. Watson also took Liverpool to their first FA Cup Final in 1914, which they lost 1–0 to Burnley.
     
  10. Gerry_A_Trick

    Gerry_A_Trick Very Well-Known Member

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    Because I didn't think of him, and he was ages ago.
     
  11. LeTallecWiz

    LeTallecWiz Mo(ssa)d Administrator

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    Ages ago ... of course ... but he put us on the map.

    [I only learned about him years ago when I read a book about the club's history]
     
  12. Dreambeliever

    Dreambeliever Looking on the brightside Member

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    Purely based on the fact, I believe winning the CL in those circumstances was a more impressive feet than continuing the dominance of the team in the 80’s. It was also set the scene for a whole new generation of fans worldwide that otherwise wouldn’t be there.

    Rafa also followed it up with an FA Cup and another CL final. I think he really brought us back to the top table in terms of a world power.
     
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  13. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    Rafa coached the fuck out of that 05 team. People forget the fact that he had to use Mellor, Sinama and Letallec at times it's like Klopp having to use Jones, Brewster and Elliott.
     
  14. Insignificance

    Insignificance Bad to the bone Member

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    That is undermining what really happened. He didn't just continue, he rebuilt the dominant team to be the finest team in Europe. We didn't win the European Cup purely because we didn't play there. But we were insane good.
     
  15. tombrown

    tombrown Very Well-Known Member

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    Exactly - he won the double, then rebuilt the team (Barnes, Aldridge, Beardsley, Houghton etc) and won the league twice more, narrowly missing out on two more doubles; he led us through our darkest hour. No way should Rafa be ahead of him
     
  16. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    How the fuck is Rafa higher than someone that won league titles. How? Assplain yourself
     
  17. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    I hate this fucking board
     
  18. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    Fucking dopes
     
  19. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    The reason why I rate Benitez and Klopp very highly is because they both built something. They took a team that didn't look like winners and turned them into a force.
    If Benitez worked under better owners he'd be a league title winner as well (In England).
    Klopp and Benitez have many similarities in the way they work. They both improved the youth set up. Benitez laid the foundation for Klopp, I believe.
    They implemented their style of football in all teams from the youth up to the reserves in order to make the transition to senior football easier.
    Involved themselves in different activities, charities etc outside the club.
    They're also never content, always demand improvement, however Klopp is a lot better at praising his players. Benitez was a bit too distant.
    Different personalities, similar work methods, I think.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  20. Dreambeliever

    Dreambeliever Looking on the brightside Member

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    Oh I have no doubt but he has some pillars to build of who had won a lot.

    Rafa had a couple of superstars but nobody who had won a title or the European Cup.

    We literally wrote the greatest European Cup story of all time and he masterminded some of the most amazing results with some bang average players.

    Its close but I think what Rafa did was just a notch better.
     

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