Michael Oliver: I got it wrong(ish)

[gkmacca]

Well done, ref, it only took you about three months to reflect on the decision (and yet he still seems ready to contradict himself in the space of a few sentences - hardly reassuring for his on-pitch judgements):



The referee Michael Oliver reckons Pickford didn't go in with the intent to do harm, but knows more thought should have been given to the challenge itself, rather than the surrounding circumstances. Had that happened, he says the outcome would have been different.

He told the print edition of the Mail on Sunday: "It was a big game. Both teams were flying. The assistant has given offside and there is a delay in the flag as we have had this season. Jordan Pickford then comes out to Virgil.

"The thought initially was, it can't be a penalty if it's offside so we need to check the offside first. I think I said to VAR that 'if it's not offside, I'm going to give a penalty.'

"I have watched it back so many times. I don't think Pickford has done anything apart from try to spread himself but he did it in the wrong way, as the injury has shown.

"We have all, myself included, not thought about the challenge as much as we should have done.

We could still have given offside and sent Pickford off. What I was surprised about afterwards was that nothing was expected on-field in terms of a red card. None of the players were asking for that.

"We got sucked too much into going step-by-step as opposed to thinking about the bigger process, which was considering the challenge itself and not just the fact that it can't be a penalty. We should have restarted with the offside, as we did, but with a different punishment for Jordan Pickford."

 

[tombrown]

What I was surprised about afterwards was that nothing was expected on-field in terms of a red card. None of the players were asking for that.

So its the Liverpool players' fault for not demanding a red card ... actually I thought telling the ref to give a card was technically a bookable offence, so its the Liverpool players' fault for obeying the rules

 

[gkmacca]

So its the Liverpool players' fault for not demanding a red card ... actually I thought telling the ref to give a card was technically a bookable offence, so its the Liverpool players' fault for obeying the rules

He also doesn't seem to have taken into account that the players were too stunned and horrified by what happened to VVD to start demanding anything. But as you say, for a ref to use players' non-attempts to bully him into sending someone off as an excuse for not sending him off is really spectacularly disingenuous as well as cowardly.

 

[The Nomad]

I still think Oliver is the best ref we have in this country, and for him to finally admit he was wrong and can improve should be commended.

Imagine if it was Clattenburg.. he'd still be denying it was the wrong call till his dying day.

 

[Red Bird]

So its the Liverpool players' fault for not demanding a red card ... actually I thought telling the ref to give a card was technically a bookable offence, so its the Liverpool players' fault for obeying the rules

I have heard this refrain many times from commentators-- things such as they didn't appeal or no protest from blah blah blah ...

 

[darkstarexodus]

I really dont want to read this from Oliver. I've just about gotten over the injustice of the injury and the non-call and now I'm fucking steaming again.

 

[RedStar]

I still think Oliver is the best ref we have in this country, and for him to finally admit he was wrong and can improve should be commended.

Imagine if it was Clattenburg.. he'd still be denying it was the wrong call till his dying day.

Agree, he cant undo whats been done but hes explaining how it happened and why it shouldnt have. I respect that alot more than somebody that decides to take it to the grave with them.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Well - Klopp asked the FA for a review. Now he has one. So what the fuck are they going to do about it?

The "zero-consequences" approach to shit refereeing decisions is what totally gets to me. Why can't Pickford be retroactively carded, or banned, or fined? Why can't Oliver be demoted? Why can't we be awarded damages for the difference in league position finish had we won that game? Or the points be reversed etc.

Oliver's reference to "no on-field" ask for a red card as influential in his decision is just utter nonsense. It's part of why players have to go to ground in order to win penalties - rather than the offense itself being enough to create the penalty award. The way they process decisions promotes diving, and theatrics, and waving imaginary cards. And it's totally on them.

Refereeing has been utterly pathetic this season.

 

[Donavan Ried]

Well - Klopp asked the FA for a review. Now he has one. So what the fuck are they going to do about it?

The "zero-consequences" approach to shit refereeing decisions is what totally gets to me. Why can't Pickford be retroactively carded, or banned, or fined? Why can't Oliver be demoted? Why can't we be awarded damages for the difference in league position finish had we won that game? Or the points be reversed etc.

Oliver's reference to "no on-field" ask for a red card as influential in his decision is just utter nonsense. It's part of why players have to go to ground in order to win penalties - rather than the offense itself being enough to create the penalty award. The way they process decisions promotes diving, and theatrics, and waving imaginary cards. And it's totally on them.

Refereeing has been utterly pathetic this season.

Been making this point for what seems like forever now...

If Retroactive Cards where given It would stop a lot or these things such as the diving to win penalties, deliberate and dangerous fouls, fouls and stamps off the ball such a the Ramos/Salah CL foul and the Ramos elbow on Karius
OK it would have still robbed us of the CL final, but Can you imagine Real meeting Bayern, or Juve in the following years group stage of the CL, only for the ref to wait just before the kick off to turn to Ramos and hand him that Red Card meaning that Real would have to play not only with 10 men but have to use a sub if the wish to change things, and lose him for three CL matches

 

[gkmacca]

It's like the scene in Annie Hall where someone's showing off their canned laughter machine: 'Have you got booing on that?' Refs can't be criticised, even though they can dish out the criticism of everyone else. Players complain about them? Booking. Managers complain about them? A booking, or a ban from the dugout and an FA fine. When they're protected that much they know they can get away with this nonsense.

 

[Woland]

I think the whole getting banned thing is weird too. Say Fernandes gets a red against us next week and misses his next game, how does that help us when they're playing some shit the next week? He should be banned in the next game against us.

I appreciate this is a weird opinion but I've had it for a while and it's time to fucking talk about it

 

[momoWASboss]

I’ve been thinking the same for years.

 

[The Nomad]

I think the whole getting banned thing is weird too. Say Fernandes gets a red against us next week and misses his next game, how does that help us when they're playing some shit the next week? He should be banned in the next game against us.

I appreciate this is a weird opinion but I've had it for a while and it's time to fucking talk about it

How about 3 game ban.
Next two in order.. then next game against the same opposition?

 

[momoWASboss]

How about 3 game ban.
Next two in order.. then next game against the same opposition?

Yep. At least one game of the ban must be against the same opposition. If the player changes clubs he’ll still miss out against that team.

 

[Woland]

How about 3 game ban.
Next two in order.. then next game against the same opposition?

Something like that. There should be some benefit to the side that got fucked over

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Something like that. There should be some benefit to the side that got fucked over

Seems like a brilliant idea to me.

 

[RedStar]

Yep. At least one game of the ban must be against the same opposition. If the player changes clubs he’ll still miss out against that team.

What if he moves to the club hes banned against?

 

[momoWASboss]

What if he moves to the club hes banned against?

He is in a vortex which eats the player and creates a planet consuming black hole.

Probably it would be a suspension for the first competitive tie following the move.

 

[Jack D Rips]

How about a red for dangerous play and you cant play again until the injured player can?

 

[Dreambeliever]

Interesting idea.

 

[StevieM]

What if it’s a 1 game ban for picking up 5 yellows in 5 different games????

Does everyone get a bit of time with him off the pitch.

 

[momoWASboss]

What if it’s a 1 game ban for picking up 5 yellows in 5 different games????

Does everyone get a bit of time with him off the pitch.

There isn’t a red card so keep it with next game suspension.

 

[Brizzle]

This doesn't help thinking about 'what ifs' - as if Pickford had seen red I don't see the game being one where Everton score another two (and us also another 1) - meaning there is less likely to be a two footer from Richarlison on the halfway line in the 90th minute trying to prevent a late winner. Thiago playing from then until would would have the league table looking very different.

 

[gkmacca]

I think what really should concern the FA - and it would be scandalous if it doesn't - is the potential for serious aggressioon when we next play Everton. For one thing, they've been out of control in derby games for quite a while now, thanks in part to a succession of refs relying dogmatically on that stupid 'we'll let stuff go in the first half an hour or so, cos it's a derby' policy. That's an issue Oliver and others should be pondering. And the last game was so bad, so bitter, for players and fans alike, there's surely a real danger that some scores are set to be settled. Personally, I'd love to see someone 'mistime' a challenge on Pickford, but I'm sick to death of Everton causing us injury problems game after game. They're amazingly lucky fans won't be in the ground - could you imagine the atmosphere? - but whoever is ref needs to go into that game with a really clear idea of what's been going on. I suspect what WILL happen is that they'll ignore Everton's past behaviour and simply treat both teams as though they're in need of discipline, which is inaccurate, but lessons need to have been learned.

 

[mark1975]

Cue hysterical Evertonians re-posting a photo of Gerrard's lunge on Kevin Campbell from 1920. Exactly like they were for about a month after the last derby.

You're right. They go into every derby with the same old "dogs of war" mentality. What would be really great in the next derby is if we just absolutely destroy them like we normally do.

 

[The Nomad]

Cue hysterical Evertonians re-posting a photo of Gerrard's lunge on Kevin Campbell from 1920. Exactly like they were for about a month after the last derby.

You're right. They go into every derby with the same old "dogs of war" mentality. What be really great in the next derby is if we just absolutely destroy them like we normally do.

Talking to Everton fans about the derby is about as insightful as talking to Trump supporters about the election.

Always the same topics.. over... and over.. and over.. about how they were wronged.