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Post match - Spurs.

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Whirly said:
N. But rewatch the match and tell me how many horrible mistakes our defense made.

It's simply not good enough, and Lovren is trying to do too much.
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I will (as I always do) and watch with interest and get back you.
 
mark1975 said:
Why do people get so arsey about post match criticisms? Isn't that what a post match thread is about? Sure, praise the good bits, but there are clearly problems still there and burying our heads about it is daft. We kept a clean sheet, great, but we were lucky to in many respects and Lovren/Sakho aren't the God-sends that a few posters seem intent on having us believe. Lovren's made about half a dozen errors in three games.
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Who's getting arsey? Asides from Whirly, but he always seems annoyed.
 
mark1975 said:
Well this is my point, touching on the last bit, the individual mistakes are still there and in fairness, that was as much the problem last season and as problems as a unit.
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All defenses make mistakes, but when it functions as a unit you concede less.
Crosses, Set pieces, long balls, in general we are looking more composed, our fullbacks look less error prone and better on the cover so we can wear the odd error while the unit becomes a cohesive being.
I think youre being over critical. Defenders want to win every ball, yet NO defender has 100% success rate in almost any game but what you do after you dont win the ball is what results to goals or clean sheets.
 
Red Astaire said:
I will (as I always do) and watch with interest and get back you.
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Red Astaire preparing to rewatch the game.
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I remember reading about Allen saying that last season, the team were a little naive when it came to letting players run through and about being more streetwise. Nice to see him putting that into practise
 
mark1975 said:
Well judging by the reactions to Whirly's posts, quite a few people.
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Whirly has come in with an attitude. Not a fucking will to chat tactics.
Fuck him Mark. You will yet sensible replys because you arent a bombastic thick cunt.
 
That was a great performance that reminded me of many of our games from last season.

Lallana, Magic and Skrtel out injured, yet we still had a load of quality on the bench. That's the first time I can recall that being the case for quite a while.
 
Whirly said:
It may or may not be because when we win by more than 1 goal, people tend to overlook any and all errors we made.
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Indeed, I think a lot of people are hoping that it's a case of settling in for Lovren and the new partner, no doubt a better team would have taken advantage. Fortunately there's only 4 teams better, and hopefully by the time we play them, Lovren and his partner (hopefully Sakho) will be up to full speed.
 
Herr Onceared said:
All defenses make mistakes, but when it functions as a unit you concede less.
Crosses, Set pieces, long balls, in general we are looking more composed, our fullbacks look less error prone and better on the cover so we can wear the odd error while the unit becomes a cohesive being.
I think youre being over critical. Defenders want to win every ball, yet NO defender has 100% success rate in almost any game but what you do after you dont win the ball is what results to goals or clean sheets.
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Yeah I know mate, in fairness I've noticed from attacking setpieces that we seem to be leaving a few players back, maybe we've learned from the Palace and Chelsea games last season, on that note. And I'm made up with Moreno and Manquillo, they both first and foremost hold the line well and have the energy and nous to get back into position quickly, I think that'll help us massively, if we can allow for a few inevitable errors through inexperience - fine. I'm just not convinced by Sakho, at least with Lovren you can see the talent and intelligence is there, Sakho's only got one foot.
 
Herr Onceared said:
All defenses make mistakes, but when it functions as a unit you concede less.
Crosses, Set pieces, long balls, in general we are looking more composed, our fullbacks look less error prone and better on the cover so we can wear the odd error while the unit becomes a cohesive being.
I think youre being over critical. Defenders want to win every ball, yet NO defender has 100% success rate in almost any game but what you do after you dont win the ball is what results to goals or clean sheets.
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I don't think our central defenders functioned as a unit at all. Lovren was trying to do too much way too often.

We definitely looked better on Crosses and Set Pieces. I think Lovren got beaten on one of two long balls, but in a huge sample size that's acceptable.

Our fullbacks looked better because they are better players.

But in terms of marking runners, and defending on the counter, wherein most of the attacks came on our right(Moreno tracking back on the left maybe?), Lovren was really poor. Instead of just running with his man, he dove in by my count 5 times, and missed 3. That's horrible when he's the last man on that wing, allowing the player to make a free run into the box.

He needs to learn to have confidence in our energetic midfield+Gerrard to track back, and just stay on his feet unless he has to go down.
 
mark1975 said:
Yeah I know mate, in fairness I've noticed from attacking setpieces that we seem to be leaving a few players back, maybe we've learned from the Palace and Chelsea games last season, on that note. And I'm made up with Moreno and Manquillo, they both first and foremost hold the line well and have the energy and nous to get back into position quickly, I think that'll help us massively, if we can allow for a few inevitable errors through inexperience - fine. I'm just not convinced by Sakho, at least with Lovren you can see the talent and intelligence is there, Sakho's only got one foot.
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Sakho is my concern. But the more he played last year the better he got. Hopefully that is replicated. But lets be honest Skrtel, Kolo, Agger, Kocielney, Jones, Demichelis, Sakho, Cahill etc etc all have a mistake in them, every CB does. If the unit functions the mistakes cost you less.
I think signs are better already with the entire back 7 working better. And i think Lovren will be a good leader there.
 
FoxForceFive said:
What are you gonna do with the next two weeks Steven?

Going on holiday.

Short & sweet, the reply & tone was almost Kenny-esque.
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joking aside i think he probably knows he could do with it . at his age pre-season is massive and his was upset with this being a world cup summer , even at this early stage a break will do no harm . plus he could also do with clearing his head after losing the league and captaining a shocking world cup team , i get the feeling it's not out of his system .
 
Yeah Whirly has always had this condescending way of posting.
Can't believe people are only noticing this now.
 
Mystic said:
Indeed, I think a lot of people are hoping that it's a case of settling in for Lovren and the new partner, no doubt a better team would have taken advantage. Fortunately there's only 4 teams better, and hopefully by the time we play them, Lovren and his partner (hopefully Sakho) will be up to full speed.
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I sure hope so.

I do think Lovren/Sakho is an ideal long term partnership we should be keen on developing. Like I keep saying though, Lovren was trying to do way too much in today's match, and needs to learn to trust his midfield to provide cover when we're getting counterattacked on.

Nobody else has really looked great defensively either though, which is really good to see. United and Everton dropping a ton of points now, and smacking around Spurs is a great start to our top 4 challenge from today. I'm not worried long term about our success, I'm just pointing out that we weren't anywhere near as good today as people think we were.
 
No defence is perfect Chelsea conceded 3 against Everton and it could've been more, City were poor vs stoke, I've seen kompany have many a bad game for them yet they still regard him as one of the best same with thiago silva for psg, end of the day yes we made a few errors and on another day it could cost us but on another day we might not make those errors and still concede its football. As a unit we were good and that is a sign we are getting stronger very positive.
 
Herr Onceared said:
Whirly has come in with an attitude. Not a fucking will to chat tactics.
Fuck him Mark. You will yet sensible replys because you arent a bombastic thick cunt.
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If you really think I haven't come in with a will to chat tactics, you haven't actually read what I've posted. Especially the last couple where I try to break it down a bit into individual sections of defending.

I really don't have an agenda here.
 
Your last couple of posts are poles apart from your snidey argumentative opening gambits.
So fair play.
 
You all need to shut the fuck up arguing anyway.

We won three nil, against a side most expect to be pushing for top four.

There's better times to argue, just YouTube sterling & Moreno goals today & wank away.
 
Lovren had a mixed game for me. Some boss moments masked a few errors. I love him though.

It was nice to see our FB's tuck in and help out their centre halves. Manquillo is a steady eddy. Nothing spectacular yet solid. I like him. Should retain his place.
 
Hansern said:
Reading that you'd think we conceded 3 goals.
Lovren and Sakho were promising in their first start together ever.
Sakhos first start and Lovren starting as RCB.
Limiting Spurs to 1 shot on target and keeping a clean sheet. Quite promising. Very good defensive performance from the entire team.
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how we got away with that clean sheet i am not sure , other teams will punish us . until we went 3 up we weren't comfortable in the centre at all and any half chance they got came from our sloppy play . i don't give a shit if lovren did every single other thing in the game perfectly but those two incidents where he dived in on the sideline but got skinned were shocking .

anyway gerrard's interview was telling , how the test of this team is defensive improvements and clean sheets . first one in 9 games and you could see rodgers wanted it more than more goals . at least he's aware of it , i wonder at times .
 
Personally I think the defence is a concern. I feel great right now because I'm confident we'll finish at least 4th, but IMO we won't win the title and that's because our defence is simply much worse than Chelsea's and City's.

I don't rate Sakho, I never have. I hope he proves me wrong but I'm not confident. Lovren I think is a decent player but not a top class one, and he'll need to marshall and organise his fucking arse off to justify his fee.

I really really hope Ilori is ready next season.
 
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