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The midfield dilema

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Nir.Barak

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Well I've been thinking, and although most would say that's ridiculous, what do you think of dropping Gerrard and Allen from our midfield trio for a few games in the league?

Yes I know it may sounds dumb, I know Gerrard is our inspirational captain and one of our best players, and that Allen is a new signing that has done magnificently well over the past months, but, let's admit it, they aren't setting the world on fire right now.
In fact, Gerrard seems unbothered most of the time, his passion is nowhere near what it's been in the past, and if we are honest with ourselves he's not playing like a world class midfielder at the moment.
Allen is an enigma, he's class, there's no denying that, but I think he's not what we need at the moment, we're not Barcelona, we're a team that's in transition at the moment, and sometimes he's just not what we need at the middle of the park. Yes he is a new signing and dropping a new signing always comes with this internal feeling that the signing was unsuccessful, but that is not the case here at all, he is very important to us, he has massive talent, but that does not mean he's undroppable.

If, for instance, for the Swansea game, we'll line up with a midfield of
-------Lucas\Hendo---Şahin--------
-------------Shelvey\Suso--------------
With Lucas or Hendo playing DM which we obviously need, freeing up Şahin to have freedom to play, and it has been shown that when Şahin plays with a DM next to him he plays well and scores, as all of his 3 goals were scored when Henderson was on the pitch, and I think the difference beetwen Şahin and Allen is negligible, and when you have 2 good players you play the goal scoring one, especially in our position.
And regarding Shelvey\Suso, I think playing them a couple of games as attacking playmakers ahead of Gerrard just might finally wake him up and encourage him to up his game in order to return to the team, whilst I have full belief in Shelvey and Suso to do a good job in that position while Gerrard do some thinking.

On the whole I think this solution is better for us only in the next couple of games and not long term since I obviously rate both Gerrard and Allen, I just believe that the way this team is progressing in the league, we will play in a much more balanced way the next few games with that midfield trio.

Thoughts?
 
I think, on face value, you're crackers ;)
No, seriously. I wouldn't drop Gerrard, I'd move him further up the pitch where he can influence the the game, he can't from DM. I wouldn't have shelvey anywhere near the starting 11 anytime soon as he's been dogshit the the last month or so. Same goes for suso really, some nice touches, but not a lot out of him.
When everyone is fit, it should go:
Lucas
Allen/Şahin Gerrard

The only other thing I'd be tempted to do with Gerrard is put him out a wing forward possibly.

You dont drop your captain, not unless there's a very very good reason. And there isn't one currently.
 
Posted this last week, will post it again:

This combination every game:

Holding position: Lucas/Henderson
2nd midfield position: Şahin/Allen/Shelvey
3rd midfield position: Gerrard/Allen/Shelvey/Suso

Critical points:
1. Always have a holding player
2. No Allen for the holding position
3. No Gerrard for the 2nd position
4. No Şahin for the 3rd position
5. No Henderson for any position other than the holding position
 
The midfield you named will probably start on thursday, we'll see if any of them can play their way into a start at the weekend.
 
I know dropping Gerrard for more than a few games is bonkers and I'm not suggesting that, I just think that 1 or 2 games out for him will turn out to be beneficial for us, especially if Suso or Shelvey will rise to the challenge.
I pretty much agree with you dmishra, I just think dropping Allen and Gerrard will benefit us since it will make them step up their game since they think they're untouchable at the moment, while other players might up their game to prove their worth to Rodgers.
 
Posted this last week, will post it again:

This combination every game:

Holding position: Lucas
2nd midfield position: Şahin/Allen/Shelvey
3rd midfield position: Gerrard/Allen/Shelvey/Suso

Critical points:
1. Always have a holding player
2. No Allen for the holding position
3. No Gerrard for the 2nd position
4. No Şahin for the 3rd position
5. No Henderson for any position. Period

FIFY
 
Posted this last week, will post it again:

This combination every game:

Holding position: Lucas/Henderson
2nd midfield position: Şahin/Allen/Shelvey
3rd midfield position: Gerrard/Allen/Shelvey/Suso


You do know we could end up with a midfield of henderson, allen and suso with that formula, which has about as many goals in it as carragher ;)
 
You do know we could end up with a midfield of henderson, allen and suso with that formula, which has about as many goals in it as carragher ;)
Goals from midfield are a bonus, but for me, the primary job of the midfield is to wrestle control over the game from the opposition by dominating possession, and supplying constant ammo for the front three. For example, Barca's midfield of Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta scored a grand total of 7 goals between them the whole of last season.

The scoring burden really needs to be borne by the front three. We're currently fucked on those for two reasons: (a) our options for the attacking three are woefully limited; (b) our midfield three has been too dysfunctional to consistently supply the front three with much ammo. One's failings are also compounded by the other's, so it's imperative that we get one right at the very least.

Lack of goals from the midfield three thus doesn't worry me too much, and I actually think Henderson, Allen and Suso would be a decent midfield. Henderson holding, and Allen and Suso doing the playmaking.

In any case, I proposed that formula as a larger framework to see no one's played out of position. The exact combinations have to be decided based on individual game, venue and opposition.
 
Goals from midfield are a bonus, but for me, the primary job of the midfield is to wrestle control over the game from the opposition by dominating possession, and supplying constant ammo for the front three. For example, Barca's midfield of Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta scored a grand total of 7 goals between them the whole of last season.

The scoring burden really needs to be borne by the front three. We're currently fucked on those for two reasons: (a) our options for the attacking three are woefully limited; (b) our midfield three has been too dysfunctional to consistently supply the front three with much ammo. One's failings are also compounded by the other's, so it's imperative that we get one right at the very least.

Lack of goals from the midfield three thus doesn't worry me too much, and I actually think Henderson, Allen and Suso would be a decent midfield. Henderson holding, and Allen and Suso doing the playmaking.

In any case, I proposed that formula as a larger framework to see no one's played out of position. The exact combinations have to be decided based on individual game, venue and opposition.

I agree with most of your posts but we should stop using Barcelona as a model. It is ok if your midfield scores 7 goals when you have a dude upfront who can score 70 goals. If Messi has a season where he scores only 35 goals ( still great mind you ) the Barcelona model wont be as celebrated.
 
I agree with most of your posts but we should stop using Barcelona as a model. It is ok if your midfield scores 7 goals when you have a dude upfront who can score 70 goals. If Messi has a season where he scores only 35 goals ( still great mind you ) the Barcelona model wont be as celebrated.

lol exactly. It's all good and well when you've got one player upfront that scores more than all of our squad in a season. Otherwise, we do need the goal threat to be spread out.
 
We definately need the midfield to start kicking in soon. It is inefficient both attacking wise and defensive wise. I doubt Lucas will be ready and fit for at least 2 months so we are pretty much stuck with what we got.

I like the energy provided by Shelvey rpior his sending off, and he need to find it back if he is to be seen a real contender. Allen did a lot smart in the first five games, but in good Liverpool style we seem to have removed that from his game, and he need to find back to that early form. Şahin is the one that has occacionally threatened the box, and he also need to find back to those runs if it is any use for him. Gerrard has looked lost, and need to start to dictate games and show his presence again.

I am not sure why we struggle to klick in midfield... It might be the system not fit for our combination of midfielders, but if that is fact we really need to look into that suystem and change it.
 
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