• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

The TEN rules of Soccernomics

Status
Not open for further replies.

spider-Neil

Well-Known
Member
So here are the 10 simple rules of Soccernomics:

1.New managers waste money, ergo, limit their say in transfers.
2.Draw opinion from several people from different backgrounds.
3.Avoid stars of recent international tournaments.
4.Avoid certain nationalities (e.g. Brazilian, Dutch) as they are overpriced.
5.Buy players in their early twenties; older players are overvalued and youngsters aren’t fully developed.
6.Sell a player either before buyers see deterioration in his game or when a club offers more than he’s worth.
7.Replace your best players before selling.
8.Never buy strikers because they are overpriced; develop them instead.
9.Buy players with personal problems , then help them deal with their issues.
10.Help new players relocate.

in case anyone is interested
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=46129.msg1365813#msg1365813 date=1310805176]
We have broken or are breaking all of these rules.
[/quote]

ha ha yes :laugh:
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=46129.msg1365813#msg1365813 date=1310805176]
We have broken or are breaking all of these rules.
[/quote]

I wonder if that's Kenny's influence though. Kenny's stature was always going to make the first rule impossible to implement.
 
You could argue it doesn't apply to him anyway, as he was (a) already involved with the club and (b) manager once before.
 
Does anyone agree with number 8? I know where the logic of it comes from but i dobt think it rings as true in football
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46129.msg1365826#msg1365826 date=1310810258]
Does anyone agree with number 8? I know where the logic of it comes from but i dobt think it rings as true in football
[/quote]

Yup, I think being blessed with Owen and Fowler may have clouded this one.
 
Rules are made to be broken, somebody once said. That doesn't mean they should be ignored completely, but it does mean understanding the point of them and being willing to diverge from them when circs.require it.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46129.msg1365851#msg1365851 date=1310812715]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46129.msg1365826#msg1365826 date=1310810258]
Does anyone agree with number 8? I know where the logic of it comes from but i dobt think it rings as true in football
[/quote]

Yup, I think being blessed with Owen and Fowler may have clouded this one.
[/quote]

I see where you're coming from but I would argue that they are in fact the argument against it rather than for it.

The theory is straight from Moneyball - in relation to closers in baseball. A closer is a sub pitcher who comes into the game typically in the ninth inning to get the last three batters out in tight games. If he succeeds he gets a "save" - a stat used to measure how many close games they successfully finished. He is usually the teams best sub pitcher. The practice of having one became popular in the 70's. The managers theory is that it takes a special kind of pitcher to cope with the demands of late inning pressurised situations, the sabremetric theory is that the probability of winning a game when entering the 9th inning with a lead remained exactly the same throughout the history of baseball whether you had a closer or not. So they surmised that managers are creating a value in relief pitchers that in reality doesn't exist.

The aspect of it that's relevant here is that the Oakland A's figured that being a closer didn't require a special skill set, any decent pitcher could be one. All they needed was the opportunity to get saves. So they used to try out decent pitchers, who weren't good enough to be starters, as closers - the pitcher would get a few saves other teams would think the A's have stumbled across another great closer and the A's would use that misconception to trade him for more than he was worth, then replace him with another decent pitcher already in their system. They were obtaining more for their players simply because of the perception that closing took something more than simply the opportunity to close.

So essentially the Soccernomics argument is that any decent attacker will score goals if you give him the opportunity to. I'm not so sure I buy into it completely - but there is probably some truth in it. I've always felt under Houllier and Rafa we were a team that made it difficult for strikers, we didn't create many easy opportunities and those who were particularly good for us for more than one season were exceptional talents - Owen, Fowler and Torres. The decent strikers we signed usually fared better at their other teams who were often easier to score for - look at Hughes' Blackburn as being the perfect example of an argument in favour of the rule - Bellamy, McCarthy, Santa Cruz - none of which would be considered great strikers all had very good seasons for Blackburn when given the opportunity.
 
Sorry if this has been posted.

After years of rumors about pimply geeks with laptops plotting a takeover of English soccer, the game's statistical rebels have received a full-throated welcome into the hallowed grounds of the Premier League.

As a new season begins Saturday, all eyes will be on Anfield, where—10 months after Boston Red Sox owners John Henry and Tom Werner purchased Liverpool—the legendary club will flaunt the trappings of a $170 million spending spree that amounts to a pricey bet their data-driven approach can find value that others have missed.

Since the new owners' arrival, Liverpool has spent roughly $30 million each for Stewart Downing and Jordan Henderson; another $13 million on Scottish midfielder Charlie Adam; nearly $40 million for Uruguayan forward Luís Suárez; and a record $57 million for striker Andy Carroll, now the most expensive English player ever.

That isn't exactly what went on in Boston, where general manager Theo Epstein collected Kevin Millar and David Ortiz for relative peanuts in 2003 and watched them help the Red Sox win the World Series the next year. But a careful study of the attributes of Liverpool's new recruits reveals a fairly similar formula behind the club's approach.

Broadly, Liverpool's spending spree crystallizes all the risks and mysteries associated with adapting analytics to a game where the jury is still out on their value. After all, there are so many scouts, would-be agents and lay observers on the lookout for talent that the idea of fielding a team with undiscovered value would appear absurd.

Every Premier League club has a team of number crunchers, but it's unclear how much influence they have or which of the numbers they produce are actually useful. Even Henry, who owes much of his fortune to his mathematical approach to the financial markets, sees a limit to the use of data in a free-flowing game like soccer, as opposed to baseball, where events can be isolated and statistically adjusted.

"Determining what goes into a goal is much more complicated than determining what goes into a home run,"
Henry wrote in an email this week.

There is widespread agreement that no one has come up with the algorithm that reveals a player's value to a team. "I'm not aware of anyone who has cracked the code," said Nelson Rodriguez, executive vice-president of competition for Major League Soccer, who consults regularly with European clubs. There may be too much information. Data-tracking companies collect some 300 measurements per game on about 2,500 player movements. Still, Rodriguez said clubs continue to search for a winning formula, taking their cues from the data-obsessed franchises in U.S. pro sports.

In truth, Liverpool may be a bit late to the numbers party. Warren Barton, the former England international and a commentator for Fox Soccer Channel, said coaches would review statistics with players each Monday when he played for Newcastle United and Derby County in the 1990s and early 2000s.

The numbers can also be deceiving, Barton said. A player may cover a lot of distance, suggesting superior fitness, but not display much speed or intensity. A midfielder may have an 80% pass completion rate, but the passes may be short or hit sideways to sure-footed teammates.

To cut through the confusion, Liverpool seems to have gone at the problem with a rather simplistic—if expensive—approach that speaks to the owners' experience with the data-centric Epstein-led Red Sox.

"There is no question that Damien Comolli is cut from the same cloth as Theo Epstein," Werner said of the bespectacled director of football who joined Liverpool last November following the club's takeover.

The great discovery made by Red Sox senior adviser and stats guru Bill James a generation ago was that baseball teams could score more runs if they could get more runners on base, in whatever fashion, and thereby create more scoring chances.

Liverpool finished sixth in the Premier League last season partly because of its record of scoring just 59 goals in 38 games. That was far off the pace of Manchester United, which scored 78 goals. In four of the past five seasons, the top four teams in the standings were the four highest-scoring teams, the lone exception being 2009-10, when Manchester City finished fifth but scored more than Tottenham, which finished fourth.

To solve the shortfall, Liverpool has gone on a mission to create more scoring opportunities—to get more runners on base—even if that has meant betting the house on a group of players who, other than Suárez, have little international or Champions League experience.

For instance, Downing, Adam and Henderson were all among the top-eight chance-creators in the Premier League last season, according to statistics provider Opta Sports. The average Premier League midfielder creates roughly 1.21 chances per game, but Adam created 2.06 chances per game last season on average, while Downing and Henderson made 2.24 and 2.22 chances per game respectively.

Those three also produced some 750 crosses—centering passes that create scoring opportunities—last season, with an accuracy rate of more than 24%, slightly ahead of the league average.
Five of Adam's eight assists last season came from crosses, while no Premier League player has made more successful crosses the last three seasons than Downing. Since the start of the 2004-05 season, only four players have created more chances than Downing in Premier League games—Frank Lampard, Cesc Fabregas, Steven Gerrard and Ryan Giggs.

"He's much more than a winger—the stats show it." Comolli declared on Liverpool's web site after Downing's arrival.

Conventional wisdom suggests those numbers should improve if the trio is crossing to a classier collection of forwards and midfielders than on their previous clubs. The hope is that a good portion of the crosses will connect with the 6-foot-3 Carroll, whose specialty is heading the ball into the net.

Still, there are those who question whether bombarding an opponents' area with aerial crosses is an effective tactic. The rate of completed crosses that produce a goal rarely exceeds one in four. The probability of scoring from a cross is just 5%.

But Liverpool also has Suárez, the Manny Ramirez of the side, who has two of the planet's most creative feet. Suárez arrived last season after scoring 102 goals in nearly four seasons at Ajax. He is prone to toddler-like temper tantrums and was suspended last year for biting an opponent, but he has a massive upside if Liverpool can cool his head.

No matter what the numbers say, it's a safe bet that the days of bargain-hunting are over. If nothing else, Liverpool's spending spree certainly shows that. "Everyone you buy nowadays costs a fortune," said Roy Evans, the former Liverpool manager. "That's the going rate—you just have to live with it."
 
Podcast Interview:

http://onfooty.com/2012/06/interview-with-simon-kuper-author-of-soccernomics.html

Here are a few quotes from what we discussed.

1. What do you think of Euro 2012 so far?

“Soccer has been great, players seem more relaxed than at world cup. Euro is less important so it has been more fun.”

Soccernomics

2. Why 2nd Edition

3. What is going on at Liverpool?

“I think nobody quite knows what a Moneyball of soccer will be. I think that was the problem at Liverpool”

About the new management set-up at Liverpool

“Liverpool management is using wisdom of crowds”

4. Technical director role in England

5. Do coaches matter ? What impact does the style of play of a coach have on the performance of the team and how does it manifest into the coach’s rating?

“Identity of the coach is not as important as people think”

“The idea that the coach is this great motivator, I dismiss. The idea that he is this great tactician, a few not many”

6. Who are the top tacticians in the game today?

“I think Wengers great gift is recruiting rather than tactics, probably true with Ferguson as well”

“One problem with successful managers like Mourinho & Louis Van Gaal is they egomaniacs. They think they know it all”

7. What is your take on Pep Guardiola?

“Guardiola created this system of very elaborate rules almost like an NFL playbook”

8. Soccer clubs dont make money : What is the objective of financial fair-play rules?

Soccer Analytics

“In areas like freekicks, corners and penalties, data has already become extremely significant in Soccer”

9. Houston Rockets GM Daryl Moorey – Analysts are a commodity and what matters is the data? what do think of that when most clubs are using the same data?

“I think the problem in football is that clubs dont know how to analyse data”

10. Power of agents – We recently did a post on the power of agents in football and found out that 50% of all the players of EPL are represented by 20 player agencies

- What impact does this have on the efficiencies in the transfer market?

Current Issues

11. The new premier league deal 3bill pounds for 2013 – 2016 (it doesnt include Overseas rights) – are you surprised by the size of it? How can you explain that in this tough financial climate?

12. What this mean for other leagues? – do you think this will create a bubble like we saw a decade ago?

“The EPL is becoming the NBA of soccer”

13. What does the Rangers demise mean to Scottish football?

“Football clubs never disappear. Soccer can survive with less money.”

Soccer in USA

14. How far do you think USA has come as a soccer country?

“US now is the most soccer country it has ever been”

15. What are the 3 things that you would change in US soccer if you had the power?

“getting american 7-years olds to think in terms of space”

16. What is your next book going to be about?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom