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Those returning from loan - Coutinho 2.0? Morton, Ramsey and VDB

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bluebell

bluebell

Well-Known
Member
Looking at this video, I see glimpses of Coutinho but what impresses me is his pressing and his own press resistance. He seems to draw in lots fouls which will be brilliant for those set plays.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h2-MVslrHk

Morton looks like he can spray the ball like Alonso

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy_VUgUEs-w

If VDB could be a an option for a squadie

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-uWFsl_Tzo&t=174s

Ramsey, well considering he couldn't break into a League 1 1st team, you have to ask is if is just a Davies 2.0?
 
No chance to view the videos yet however if they are being brought into the fold then two questions need to be asked
A. Who are they replacing?
B. Are they 'Slot' players?

Carvalho - flattered to deceive his first time here. Msybe he's improved enough to be a valuable squad player? Who does he replace? Gakpo the nearest stylistically but I don't see that happening.

Morton - he's not replacing any of our current nudists. I like him but don't see a position for him. We'll buy a strong DM.

VdB. - yes absolutely. Replacing Matip ( and we'll still need +1 CB)
 
Not sure it's fair to judge Ramsay at the moment. We've seen time and time again how difficult it is for a young player who has been out injured for long periods. He needs a full season on loan and injury-free before we can assess him Davies was a short-term emergency signing - Ramsay would have been extensively scouted by one of the better recruitment teams in the game.

As for the other two, we should be looking for PL loans for the pair of them. Carvalho has proven himself already in the league, so I'd hope a club will take a chance on giving him a squad role with ample opportunities. Back to Fulham or Palace feels about right for the next stage of his career after Hull.

Morton will be trickier. There's likely only room for one of Bajectic or Morton as a rotation option in the deeper roles at Liverpool. Maybe one of the promoted clubs would be interested. People should be prepared for an underwhelming season from Bajectic. There's always a sense of excitement when a player with his promise comes back, but a year out of the game is significant and heavily disrupts even the best players both physically and mentally.
 
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Fabio is technically really good but his work rate/involvement in games is still pretty low and he still looks to go to ground far too easily. His versality is certainly an advantage, he's played in all 4 attacking positions under Rosenior as he has often switched in and out of the 4231/442 formation.

Morton may well be the 1 who struggles the most out of the 3 to see any game time simply because of the numbers we have, he's played as an #8 and done well. Not good enough to be an option as the #6, seen players go past him for fun. Does have a lovely eye for a pass.

Sepp has probably been one of Mainz's best players, playing at the heart of their defence. Very commanding, very vocal which is impressive for a 22 year old. A proper old fashioned defenders defender, relishes those battles. Has the physicality and the speed to play in the Prem. Only question mark I have is how good he is on the ball/playing out of defence as he's been suited to playing Mainz's long ball game.
 
Squiggles said:
Not sure it's fair to judge Ramsay at the moment. We've seen time and time again how difficult it is for a young player who has been out injured for long periods. He needs a full season on loan and injury-free before we can assess him Davies was a short-term emergency signing - Ramsay would have been extensively scouted by one of the better recruitment teams in the game.

As for the other two, we should be looking for PL loans for the pair of them. Carvalho has proven himself already in the league, so I'd hope a club will take a chance on giving him a squad role with ample opportunities. Back to Fulham or Palace feels about right for the next stage of his career after Hull.

Morton will be trickier. There's likely only room for one of Bajectic or Morton as a rotation option in the deeper roles at Liverpool. Maybe one of the promoted clubs would be interested. People should be prepared for an underwhelming season from Bajectic. There's always a sense of excitement when a player with his promise comes back, but a year out of the game is significant and heavily disrupts even the best players both physically and mentally.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I think I'd disagree here. If we're not going to utilise Carvalho or Morton both should be sold. Values for both should be at their highest to date.

FYI
Carvalho's contract expires in 2027 and he's on £40k a week.
Morton signed a long term contract in 2022 but don't know for how long. He's on £12k a week.
 
You may as well chuck in Jaros who’s done well in Australia.

He won’t solve the 3rd goalkeeper problem if we likely release Adrian, but he might be an option if we sell Kelleher.

I like the idea of James Trafford replacing Kelleher if he goes and is guaranteed games in domestic Cup and the odd European game (as long as Slott isn’t a Dreamie disciple and plans to loose all our cup games on purpose).
 
MomoWASright said:
I want to know who are the nudists.
Click to expand...
IMG_8944.jpeg
 
Frogfish said:
Sorry but I think I'd disagree here. If we're not going to utilise Carvalho or Morton both should be sold. Values for both should be at their highest to date.

FYI
Carvalho's contract expires in 2027 and he's on £40k a week.
Morton signed a long term contract in 2022 but don't know for how long. He's on £12k a week.
Click to expand...

I’d keep them all if I could (except Jaros, that makes no sense - unless we sell Kelleher).

If we go with 4231, then VdB, Morton & Carvalho could suit that system well. No issues with another loan, though.

Ramsey is the odd one - injuries, etc - he needs games, I think he’s the one that’s least likely to make it.

We can fit them all in the squad and still sign 3 top players.
 
I reckon we'll probably sell Fabio, Morton and van den berg. And they're the high profile loanees. We'll probably sell more.
 
Fabio said:
I reckon we'll probably sell Fabio, Morton and van den berg. And they're the high profile loanees. We'll probably sell more.
Click to expand...

Honest questions - why?

Do we need to?

What benefit is there to doing so?

That’s on the basis that none of them request “a new challenge” or their contracts have run down.
 
StevieM said:
Ummmmm…. Froggie…. Have you taken up still life painting?
Click to expand...
Haha! It's my phone keyboard - I use the SwiftKey one which comes up with the most amazing predictive text! Talking with my daughter I leave it as is and see if she can guess what I'm on about.

Nb. That paragraph above required me to go back and correct 4 weirdo text predictions!
 
StevieM said:
You may as well chuck in Jaros who’s done well in Australia.

He won’t solve the 3rd goalkeeper problem if we likely release Adrian, but he might be an option if we sell Kelleher.

I like the idea of James Trafford replacing Kelleher if he goes and is guaranteed games in domestic Cup and the odd European game (as long as Slott isn’t a Dreamie disciple and plans to loose all our cup games on purpose).
Click to expand...
Australia eh?
 
StevieM said:
Honest questions - why?

Do we need to?

What benefit is there to doing so?

That’s on the basis that none of them request “a new challenge” or their contracts have run down.
Click to expand...

Honestly? None of them are good enough

Fabio - fell out with klopp, didn't play for Leipzig, doing well in the championship. At the age where he'll want consistent minutes, and ahead of him he has Macca, szob, gravy, Elliott and Jones. Just can't see it

Morton - one decent loan on the championship where ever then he wasn't pulling up trees. Is also 21, and we've got better players than him. There's depth and then there's silliness.

VDB is probably the only one I think maybe, and that's down to versatility. I just don't think he's good enough to oust Gomez as the jack of all trades defender. Again, 20.

If these players aren't agitating for a move of they discover they're low on the pecking order (as they should be), then you do wonder about their mentality. Only Morton really has been here since a kid.

There's no need to, but equally should we not because there's no need? Money is money and could be the difference between getting a top target or not. No overall benefits, but I don't feel there's a benefit to keeping them either
 
Frogfish said:
Haha! It's my phone keyboard - I use the SwiftKey one which comes up with the most amazing predictive text! Talking with my daughter I leave it as is and see if she can guess what I'm on about.

Nb. That paragraph above required me to go back and correct 4 weirdo text predictions!
Click to expand...

Did you just say you had a conversation about nudists with your daughter????

I’ve have progressed past poo conversations and even then it’s usually just a small and “ba ba fluuuuf… spffffft… gaaaaa”.

Which….. makes more sense than Dreamie…
 
Fabio said:
Honestly? None of them are good enough

Fabio - fell out with klopp, didn't play for Leipzig, doing well in the championship. At the age where he'll want consistent minutes, and ahead of him he has Macca, szob, gravy, Elliott and Jones. Just can't see it

Morton - one decent loan on the championship where ever then he wasn't pulling up trees. Is also 21, and we've got better players than him. There's depth and then there's silliness.

VDB is probably the only one I think maybe, and that's down to versatility. I just don't think he's good enough to oust Gomez as the jack of all trades defender. Again, 20.

If these players aren't agitating for a move of they discover they're low on the pecking order (as they should be), then you do wonder about their mentality. Only Morton really has been here since a kid.

There's no need to, but equally should we not because there's no need? Money is money and could be the difference between getting a top target or not. No overall benefits, but I don't feel there's a benefit to keeping them either
Click to expand...

That’s all fair, though I’m not sure I agree with it all.

Carvalho, I’d be interested to see if Slot can make anything of the obvious talent - he didn’t seem to fit into a Klopp team.

If Slot goes with a fixed double pivot I think there’s a spot for Morton.

I actually think VdB might be the one that’s sold - depends on his technical ability.

I mean we don’t know, you could also chuck Chambers and Beck into the mix who had decent loans.

As I said in another thread - we have 3-4 home grown spots free - VdB, Morton, Carvalho & Beck could fill them.

Here’s another thought - maybe Doak, Danns, Badger, McConnell, Clark & Gordon should be the ones going out on loan for development and playing time.

Maybe, Rhys-Williams, Polish Messi, Phillips, etc should be the ones out the door as they likely have no future.
 
MomoWASright said:
Is VDB still as slow as an iceberg or has he got quicker?
Click to expand...
According to the press he is very quick
www.bundesliga.com

Sepp van den Berg | 1. FSV Mainz 05 | Player Profile | Bundesliga

All official season statistics and career data on Sepp van den Berg. With news, videos and goals from Sepp van den Berg in the Bundesliga this season
www.bundesliga.com www.bundesliga.com
www.dailymail.co.uk

Do Liverpool have an ideal centre-back in Sepp van den Berg?

Sir Alex Ferguson's old adage says that your defence wins you titles, and while Liverpool's back-line has been good, it hasn't been imperious. Could Sepp van den Berg be the answer?
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
StevieM said:
Did you just say you had a conversation about nudists with your daughter????

I’ve have progressed past poo conversations and even then it’s usually just a small and “ba ba fluuuuf… spffffft… gaaaaa”.

Which….. makes more sense than Dreamie…
Click to expand...

perfectly normal… in the scholes household
 
bluebell said:
According to the press he is very quick
www.bundesliga.com

Sepp van den Berg | 1. FSV Mainz 05 | Player Profile | Bundesliga

All official season statistics and career data on Sepp van den Berg. With news, videos and goals from Sepp van den Berg in the Bundesliga this season
www.bundesliga.com www.bundesliga.com
www.dailymail.co.uk

Do Liverpool have an ideal centre-back in Sepp van den Berg?

Sir Alex Ferguson's old adage says that your defence wins you titles, and while Liverpool's back-line has been good, it hasn't been imperious. Could Sepp van den Berg be the answer?
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
34 km/hour seems about average, with a few defenders in that league a few km/hour quicker. De Ligt coming in at 32 made me chuckle.
 
StevieM said:
That’s all fair, though I’m not sure I agree with it all.

Carvalho, I’d be interested to see if Slot can make anything of the obvious talent - he didn’t seem to fit into a Klopp team.

If Slot goes with a fixed double pivot I think there’s a spot for Morton.

I actually think VdB might be the one that’s sold - depends on his technical ability.

I mean we don’t know, you could also chuck Chambers and Beck into the mix who had decent loans.

As I said in another thread - we have 3-4 home grown spots free - VdB, Morton, Carvalho & Beck could fill them.

Here’s another thought - maybe Doak, Danns, Badger, McConnell, Clark & Gordon should be the ones going out on loan for development and playing time.

Maybe, Rhys-Williams, Polish Messi, Phillips, etc should be the ones out the door as they likely have no future.
Click to expand...

Arguably you're right. Very least those 3 have consistent first team minutes (though I don't think Morton will cut it). Beck and chambers could come in to this, as Becks rightly thought of, and chambers has been doing decent work at Wigan (even at CB sometimes)

Doak, danns, clark, koumas, Gordon, badger (I'm iffy on this one), McConnell, even nyoni probably need to be loaned out. They're not going to develop waiting for first team chances here. When they come back, if they're developed enough they can learn the play style. If they can't, then they get sold

The last batch you mentioned I'm kind of annoyed they're still here in a way. Like, freuendorf, mate. You're never getting picked.
 
StevieM said:
That’s all fair, though I’m not sure I agree with it all.

Carvalho, I’d be interested to see if Slot can make anything of the obvious talent - he didn’t seem to fit into a Klopp team.

If Slot goes with a fixed double pivot I think there’s a spot for Morton.

I actually think VdB might be the one that’s sold - depends on his technical ability.

I mean we don’t know, you could also chuck Chambers and Beck into the mix who had decent loans.

As I said in another thread - we have 3-4 home grown spots free - VdB, Morton, Carvalho & Beck could fill them.

Here’s another thought - maybe Doak, Danns, Badger, McConnell, Clark & Gordon should be the ones going out on loan for development and playing time.

Maybe, Rhys-Williams, Polish Messi, Phillips, etc should be the ones out the door as they likely have no future.
Click to expand...
Polish matt has just been announced will be released
 
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