Undisputed Greatest Of All Time
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[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42302.msg1222637#msg1222637 date=1290503515]
Goldberg did have a great entrance though.
[/quote]
Goldberg did have a great entrance though.
[/quote]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42302.msg1222643#msg1222643 date=1290506569]
I thought Goldberg was excellent. His stint in the wwe was far too short, he had everything.
[/quote]
I've only seen bits of his WCW days, which were obviously his peak, but I thought his run in the WWE was fairly MEH. He was quick, strong and agile, but he was terrible on the mic and he botched moves. Plus if he was injuring guys with anywhere near the frequency with which he was doing it in WCW, then he was a liability.
I thought Goldberg was excellent. His stint in the wwe was far too short, he had everything.
[/quote]
I've only seen bits of his WCW days, which were obviously his peak, but I thought his run in the WWE was fairly MEH. He was quick, strong and agile, but he was terrible on the mic and he botched moves. Plus if he was injuring guys with anywhere near the frequency with which he was doing it in WCW, then he was a liability.
[quote author=Rouge Penguin link=topic=42302.msg1199752#msg1199752 date=1287386579]
Senna was better.
Google some of his qualy laps at monaco, he was awesome.
Tennis. Sampras?
There were great riders before lance. Forgive the spelling but induran, merkcx, hinault
[/quote]
Agreed, I don't think anyone has been better than Senna at his best.
Sampras was great but I don't think anyone gets close enough to Laver to really say they could be argued the best. Both Sampras and Federer say very plainly that the best they've seen was Laver and they both had the same goal - to try and emulate him in performance.
Neither Sampras or Federer managed a grand slam while Laver managed two. I know he only had two surfaces to contend with but he won it twice and that includes being out of the competition for so many years because he turned professional.
There would be more arguments on the womens game though I think Steffi Graf is the best I've ever seen. Once again the surface types, raquets etc are an issue but her "golden slam" in '88 was against some tough opposition and yet she almost always seemed like the one to determine the outcome - only she could beat her. Serena, Seles, Martina, Court etc - all amazing players and some super athletes in there as well but none as good as Graf IMO.
Jordan is a good shout though I hear people talking about Wilt Chamberlain as though he was the unmatched but I never saw him play.
Tiger was/is an all time great but is he really a better player than the Golden Bear? Jack had an enormous amount of incredible competition while Woods really did come along during a lull in the games performers. I remember Norman - who could not, IMO, have matched his earlier contemporaries - coming back from injury in his late 30's and seriously testing Woods when he was being lauded as unplayable.
Not quite as international a sport but when Wally Lewis was at his prime in the mid 80's he was so far and away the best player in the best national rugby league team it was unbelievable. Players before him like Gasnier, Raper, Chuchill, Malcolm Reilly were all great players but none dominated like Lewis.
How about Carl Lewis in athletics? 4 Gold medals at one Olympic Games, the world record in the 100m and, briefly, the greatest long jump in history. I know people will talk about Michael Johnson or Usain Bolt but, IMO, neither of them are there because they didn't dominate across enough events. Johnson in the 400m, though, was a dominance I don't think we've ever seen before. A shame he and Bolt didn't over lap for the 200m.
Oh, and LMFAO at whoever it was suggested Maradonna could possibly described as an "undisputed greatest of all time". :laugh: That is quality comedy right there.
Senna was better.
Google some of his qualy laps at monaco, he was awesome.
Tennis. Sampras?
There were great riders before lance. Forgive the spelling but induran, merkcx, hinault
[/quote]
Agreed, I don't think anyone has been better than Senna at his best.
Sampras was great but I don't think anyone gets close enough to Laver to really say they could be argued the best. Both Sampras and Federer say very plainly that the best they've seen was Laver and they both had the same goal - to try and emulate him in performance.
Neither Sampras or Federer managed a grand slam while Laver managed two. I know he only had two surfaces to contend with but he won it twice and that includes being out of the competition for so many years because he turned professional.
There would be more arguments on the womens game though I think Steffi Graf is the best I've ever seen. Once again the surface types, raquets etc are an issue but her "golden slam" in '88 was against some tough opposition and yet she almost always seemed like the one to determine the outcome - only she could beat her. Serena, Seles, Martina, Court etc - all amazing players and some super athletes in there as well but none as good as Graf IMO.
Jordan is a good shout though I hear people talking about Wilt Chamberlain as though he was the unmatched but I never saw him play.
Tiger was/is an all time great but is he really a better player than the Golden Bear? Jack had an enormous amount of incredible competition while Woods really did come along during a lull in the games performers. I remember Norman - who could not, IMO, have matched his earlier contemporaries - coming back from injury in his late 30's and seriously testing Woods when he was being lauded as unplayable.
Not quite as international a sport but when Wally Lewis was at his prime in the mid 80's he was so far and away the best player in the best national rugby league team it was unbelievable. Players before him like Gasnier, Raper, Chuchill, Malcolm Reilly were all great players but none dominated like Lewis.
How about Carl Lewis in athletics? 4 Gold medals at one Olympic Games, the world record in the 100m and, briefly, the greatest long jump in history. I know people will talk about Michael Johnson or Usain Bolt but, IMO, neither of them are there because they didn't dominate across enough events. Johnson in the 400m, though, was a dominance I don't think we've ever seen before. A shame he and Bolt didn't over lap for the 200m.
Oh, and LMFAO at whoever it was suggested Maradonna could possibly described as an "undisputed greatest of all time". :laugh: That is quality comedy right there.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=42302.msg1220533#msg1220533 date=1290095967]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=42302.msg1219421#msg1219421 date=1289931905]
I think I've got a fairly cast-iron one here:
Haile Gebrselassie
[/quote]
I think that might be the only truly undebateable one.
[/quote]
Sebastian Coe; the only man in history to have held the 800m, 1,000m, 1,500m and 1 mile world records at the same time.
Gebrselassie was class but not a lot better than Said Aouita IMO. Neither of them had the longevity of Coe nor really dominated so many distances as Coe.
Herb Elliot is another - I think he still holds the record for the greatest number of sub 4minute miles and he was competing some 50 years ago.
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=42302.msg1219421#msg1219421 date=1289931905]
I think I've got a fairly cast-iron one here:
Haile Gebrselassie
[/quote]
I think that might be the only truly undebateable one.
[/quote]
Sebastian Coe; the only man in history to have held the 800m, 1,000m, 1,500m and 1 mile world records at the same time.
Gebrselassie was class but not a lot better than Said Aouita IMO. Neither of them had the longevity of Coe nor really dominated so many distances as Coe.
Herb Elliot is another - I think he still holds the record for the greatest number of sub 4minute miles and he was competing some 50 years ago.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42302.msg1221104#msg1221104 date=1290199461]
I loved them mate. You had them, the rockers, Demolition and the hart foundation who were all fucking epic.
Good times.
[/quote]
British Bulldogs were outstanding; their matchups with the hart foundation were awesome. The match where they won the title was a classic.
For LTW - surely you've got it wrong with talent re Mantle and Ruth; Ruth was the exceptional talent but never knew how to look after himself.
Also, Joe Jackson could do everything - as an all round player he has to be up there as the best the game has seen.
I loved them mate. You had them, the rockers, Demolition and the hart foundation who were all fucking epic.
Good times.
[/quote]
British Bulldogs were outstanding; their matchups with the hart foundation were awesome. The match where they won the title was a classic.
For LTW - surely you've got it wrong with talent re Mantle and Ruth; Ruth was the exceptional talent but never knew how to look after himself.
Also, Joe Jackson could do everything - as an all round player he has to be up there as the best the game has seen.
There is a professional surfer called Kelly Slater (a bloke with a girls name i know) who has been crowned ASP World Champion a record 10 times (including 5 consecutive titles from 1994–98) and is also the youngest (at age 20) and the oldest (at age 38) to win the title. Maybe not the greatest of all time but pretty impressive none the less.
Continuing the watery theme, Greatest Olympian Of All Time: Steve Redgrave, five - count 'em, FIVE - gold medals over 20 years in an absolutely brutal sport.