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Whatever Happened To The Friendly Derby?

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Jürgen4PM

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Whatever Happened To The Friendly Derby?

It is an enduring image. Whilst Steven Gerrard walks towards Everton’s Gwladys Street stand to collect a stray ball, behind the two-foot high advertising boards, 10,000 Evertonians, their faces twisted and contorted through sheer hatred, jostle for space in which to vent their vitriolic rage at Liverpool’s captain. In any other walk of life, such behaviour would be an embarrassment to those involved, yet here, it is natural. Welcome to the so-called ‘friendly derby’.

It wasn’t always this way. Not for nothing did the Merseyside derby earn its light-hearted tag. The 1980s in particular were littered with football-related examples of 'Scouse Solidarity', as Merseyside dominated the English football scene, winning eight of the decade's ten league titles, and exclusively contesting three major cup finals in five years.

The first of those, the 1984 Milk Cup final, gave a city frustrated with its economic and social climate the chance to show the world that Liverpool was about more than unemployed TV character Yosser Hughes and the Toxteth riots. “Would the last ones out of Liverpool please switch off the lights†read the banner on the motorway exiting the city, as what felt like the whole of Merseyside descended on Wembley to witness, with predictable irony, a drab goalless draw.

In North London that day, red stood proudly next to blue, chants of “Merseyside, Merseyside†rang out, and a city that would spend most of the decade ostracised by an unresponsive Government had a platform from which to speak to the world.

Two years later, the scene would be similar as Liverpool defeated Everton in the 1986 FA Cup final, whilst the May 1989 final of the same competition allowed the city to mourn the tragic loss of 96 Liverpool supporters in the Hillsborough disaster just a month earlier, with “You’ll Never Walk Alone†sung by both sets of supporters prior to kick-off.

So what has changed? Why now, almost 21 years on from that last Wembley final meeting, can the two sets of supporters simply not get on? Was the Scouse love-in a ruse, and if not, why has camaraderie given way to animosity?

Most simplistic explanations for the shift tend to focus on one specific incident as being the catalyst for the decline in relations between the Red and Blue halves of Merseyside – the Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985.

That day, when 39 Juventus supporters were killed during riots ahead of their side’s European Cup final with Liverpool in Brussels, Everton were a club on the brink of greatness. They had romped to the First Division title with their phenomenal side of Andy Gray, Graeme Sharp, Kevin Sheedy and co, had won the Cup Winners’ Cup in style, and were preparing for a first crack at the European Cup since 1971.

In an instant, that privilege was denied to them. UEFA’s decision to ban all English clubs from European competition for five years in the wake of Heysel meant Howard Kendall’s side never got the chance to take on the likes of Ajax, Barcelona and, of course, that great Juventus side of Michel Platini and co. It is a claim frequently made on Merseyside, even today – that Everton would have been European Champions had it not been for Liverpool’s supporters.

Kenny Harper, an Evertonian who writes for fan site Sportingo, believes the anger is misdirected: “The young Evertonians are too young to remember what happened during the Heysel disaster,†he says. “Those who do remember it will know that what happened that night could have happened anywhere in Europe, with any set of fans.

“If they actually knew what they were talking about, they wouldn’t sing their stupid songs about who’s a murderer and who isn’t. These younger fans blame Liverpool for everything that has gone wrong with their own club since the European ban.

“Personally, although I do think it has affected us as a club more than any other, I don’t feel the lack of investment in our team as we approached the '90s can be laid at the door of Liverpool supporters. It has a lot more to do with Margaret Thatcher, who couldn’t wait to use it to attack a city she despised.â€

Harper has a point, the site of teenagers – children of the '90s – singing songs about Liverpool supporters being ‘murderers’ is commonplace at Merseyside derbies these days, but Heysel alone cannot explain the resentment which festers between the two sets of supporters, resentment that has manifested itself in the sickening chants aimed at Steven Gerrard, Phil Neville or Joleon Lescott in recent years.

Paul Tomkins, best-selling Liverpool author, believes the rivalry between the two sets of fans is too complex to attribute to any one factor.

“Maybe the increased rivalry reflects the fragmentation of society as a whole,†he says. “I'm sure there are still brothers, fathers and mates who get on with each other the same as before. But those who don't know each other seem more contemptuous.

“There's also the whole out of town thing, where Evertonians, during their fallow years, have taken a sense of pride from being what they see as the 'real' football supporters in Liverpool, with "spot the Scouser on the Kop" chants; if you can't be the better football team, then claim to be the more 'real' – the people's club, and all that.â€

Tomkins believes Liverpool’s superior record on the pitch has also played its part in straining the relations between supporters, with Liverpool adopting the role of the smirking older brother, and Everton the put-upon younger sibling.

“Hatred tends to bite upwards,†he says, “The team below resents the team above, whereas the team above has its own league rivals to worry about. Liverpool fans will be most antagonised by Evertonians when the Blues are close to, or above the Reds in the table.

“A lot of Liverpool's resentment has moved towards Manchester United, who are more of a rival in terms of winning trophies. United tend to finish above Liverpool, so that galls Reds more.

Over the past 20 years, Everton have had to accept that they are not going to challenge for the league or win many trophies. Now Liverpool, too, are being squeezed out of a financial elite. Everton are still in the Reds' shadow, but neither club is in the healthiest of financial states.â€

For Liverpool fans, the idea of being squeezed out of the elite is of course a galling one – plenty of Reds take solace in Everton’s plight whenever Liverpool suffer a bad run of form – but Tomkins has a point.

A seemingly throw-away remark by Rafa Benitez in 2007, after his team were held to a goalless draw by Everton at Anfield, also exacerbated tensions. "When you play against the smaller teams at Anfield you know the game will be narrow and compact and at times we were a little bit nervous," said the Spaniard. His assesment that Everton were a small team instantly ensured that one half of the city would forever resent him.

Yet, conversely, Liverpool and Everton have a history of uniting in adversity. The 1980s ‘Scouse Solidarity’ scenes were born out of a combined sense of injustice against the state, whilst in 2007 the city rallied following the tragic death of Everton-supporting 11-year-old Rhys Jones – the innocent victim of a gang-war in a Liverpool suburb. Jones’ death saw Everton’s Z-Cars theme played at Anfield, as supporters briefly set aside their differences. It seems that it takes a tragedy to bring the best out of the bickering neighbours.

The chants will resurface on Saturday of course. Everton’s 1750 supporters will be ringed by a line of stewards and police in the Anfield Road End, and there will doubtless be skirmishes in and around Anfield, and long into the night in the city centre. A 12.45pm kick-off time may prevent too much drinking before the game, but it allows for plenty afterwards, when emotions are likely to be running even higher.

And to think, some people still refer to this as the ‘Friendly Derby’.
 
It is significantly less forthcoming than the semi-annual "What Happened to the Friendly Derby" thread, that's for sure.
 
Two words: Bitter Blues.

That's when the friendly derby dissappeared. Fuck em.
 
I was at Goodison for the last match and it was pretty brutal.

Everton fans do cling onto strange tags to comfort themselves: I've frequently heard the 'better people' tag, the 'peoples club', obv, 'a team for the scousers', etc. It's very bizarre and deep down I'm sure know it's absolute nonsense. If I ever needed to any reassurance about the club I support, I'd take a glimpse at our trophy cabinet, but I suppose that option isn't really available to them.

I do respect the club though, and know a lot of decent people (away from football) who support the blues.
 
Whos the author?

I haven't witnessed any 'skirmishes'?


Back to topic it is Heysal and there denial that grates them most.

"If we'd have won the European Cup we'd be rich and succesful like yew" my friends son snarled at me once.

Nottimgham Forest won it twice and look at them I said, and he walked out
 
I'd say its still friendly. One of the friendliest.

3/4 of my best friends are Evertonians, two of them go the match every week. Its just football at the end of the day. You hate each other for 180 mins a year then you are best mates again straight afterwards. Every single person in Liverpool have a family member or close friend that is a blue.

Look at the Manc derby the other week, the Utd fans were trying to get in the ground with darts/flares, etc! Its never been like that at Goodison or Anfield as far back as I can remember.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=38778.msg1048616#msg1048616 date=1265205875]
Whos the author?

[/quote]

Neil Jones
 
Southern press? Or the Local (if you can call outside Liverpool where its printed now local) press?
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=38778.msg1048616#msg1048616 date=1265205875]
Whos the author?

I haven't witnessed any 'skirmishes'?


Back to topic it is Heysal and there denial that grates them most.

"If we'd have won the European Cup we'd be rich and succesful like yew" my friends son snarled at me once.

Nottimgham Forest won it twice and look at them I said, and he walked out
[/quote]

Agreed.

Ive never seen a fight at the derby match or outside and ive been to more or less every derby home and away for the last 11 years. Ive sat in the Everton end at Goodison for the last 6 years cos my cousin (blue) gets me the ticket.

Bullshit.
 
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38778.msg1048624#msg1048624 date=1265206693]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=38778.msg1048616#msg1048616 date=1265205875]
Whos the author?

I haven't witnessed any 'skirmishes'?


Back to topic it is Heysal and there denial that grates them most.

"If we'd have won the European Cup we'd be rich and succesful like yew" my friends son snarled at me once.

Nottimgham Forest won it twice and look at them I said, and he walked out
[/quote]



Agreed.

Ive never seen a fight at the derby match or outside and ive been to more or less every derby home and away for the last 11 years. Ive sat in the Everton end at Goodison for the last 6 years cos my cousin (blue) gets me the ticket.

Bullshit.
[/quote]

I have. I've seen a few. Like you say though I know loads of sound blues but I've also come across many many nobheads but I'm sure the same can be said for Liverpool fans.

Anyway, it's Derby week so fuck em.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38778.msg1048626#msg1048626 date=1265206869]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38778.msg1048624#msg1048624 date=1265206693]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=38778.msg1048616#msg1048616 date=1265205875]
Whos the author?

I haven't witnessed any 'skirmishes'?


Back to topic it is Heysal and there denial that grates them most.

"If we'd have won the European Cup we'd be rich and succesful like yew" my friends son snarled at me once.

Nottimgham Forest won it twice and look at them I said, and he walked out
[/quote]



Agreed.

Ive never seen a fight at the derby match or outside and ive been to more or less every derby home and away for the last 11 years. Ive sat in the Everton end at Goodison for the last 6 years cos my cousin (blue) gets me the ticket.

Bullshit.
[/quote]

I have. I've seen a few. Like you say though I know loads of sound blues but I've also come across many many nobheads but I'm sure the same can be said for Liverpool fans.

Anyway, it's Derby week so fuck em.


[/quote]

I have in town of course, but not outside or near the ground.

I really dont think its as bad as people make out. But thats just me anyway.
 
Nah it's not as bad. I stopped going to Goodison years ago. I was in the blue end with a couple of blue mates and we got loads of hassle. Other mates got spat on. Like I said there's nobheads on both sides.
 
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38778.msg1048618#msg1048618 date=1265206013]
I'd say its still friendly. One of the friendliest.

3/4 of my best friends are Evertonians, two of them go the match every week. Its just football at the end of the day. You hate each other for 180 mins a year then you are best mates again straight afterwards. Every single person in Liverpool have a family member or close friend that is a blue.

Look at the Manc derby the other week, the Utd fans were trying to get in the ground with darts/flares, etc! Its never been like that at Goodison or Anfield as far back as I can remember.
[/quote]
Graet to hear that. The way it should be everywhere really, friendly banter and nothing else.

It's still only football and not quite as important as life and dead despite what've been said in the past.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38778.msg1048650#msg1048650 date=1265212302]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38778.msg1048618#msg1048618 date=1265206013]
I'd say its still friendly. One of the friendliest.

3/4 of my best friends are Evertonians, two of them go the match every week. Its just football at the end of the day. You hate each other for 180 mins a year then you are best mates again straight afterwards. Every single person in Liverpool have a family member or close friend that is a blue.

Look at the Manc derby the other week, the Utd fans were trying to get in the ground with darts/flares, etc! Its never been like that at Goodison or Anfield as far back as I can remember.
[/quote]
Graet to hear that. The way it should be everywhere really, friendly banter and nothing else.

It's still only football and not quite as important as life and dead despite what've been said in the past.
[/quote]

Kristian, if that's a reference to Shanks' famous remark, please don't fuel the ludicrous idea that he meant it. Shanks was teasing the media when he said that. Anyone who takes the trouble to find about the man, e.g.by reading his book, will know he had his priorities straight.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38778.msg1048679#msg1048679 date=1265217999]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38778.msg1048650#msg1048650 date=1265212302]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38778.msg1048618#msg1048618 date=1265206013]
I'd say its still friendly. One of the friendliest.

3/4 of my best friends are Evertonians, two of them go the match every week. Its just football at the end of the day. You hate each other for 180 mins a year then you are best mates again straight afterwards. Every single person in Liverpool have a family member or close friend that is a blue.

Look at the Manc derby the other week, the Utd fans were trying to get in the ground with darts/flares, etc! Its never been like that at Goodison or Anfield as far back as I can remember.
[/quote]
Graet to hear that. The way it should be everywhere really, friendly banter and nothing else.

It's still only football and not quite as important as life and dead despite what've been said in the past.
[/quote]

Kristian, if that's a reference to Shanks' famous remark, please don't fuel the ludicrous idea that he meant it. Shanks was teasing the media when he said that. Anyone who takes the trouble to find about the man, e.g.by reading his book, will know he had his priorities straight.
[/quote]
I don't know that much of the great Shanks mate but I've always thought that remark was said quite tongue in cheek.

I did use it as a reference however, but only said to underline that I'm glad that's not something Liverpudlians seemingly live by.

SOZ to the legend if he felt offended.





*walks away from thread with head hanging in shame... *
 
No need to do that, mate. It's just that there are too many idiots out there who do think Shanks meant it, and I've had to waste far too much time over the years telling them the great man had a lot more between his ears than that. Maybe I wouldn't mind so much if I hadn't started and grown up as a Red during his time in charge. Peace. 8)
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38778.msg1048784#msg1048784 date=1265233339]
No need to do that, mate. It's just that there are too many idiots out there who do think Shanks meant it, and I've had to waste far too much time over the years telling them the great man had a lot more between his ears than that. Maybe I wouldn't mind so much if I hadn't started and grown up as a Red during his time in charge. Peace. 8)
[/quote]

*walks back into thread with head held high*



*ish*
 
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