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WWIII Return of the Ruskie

Athens

Greatest Bloke Ever [Citation Needed]
Member
Where are you going to be when it all kicks off? Whose side will you be on? I want to be on the same side as the Vietnamese.

If you've been listening just to the Kremlin and the Pentagon, you probably didn't know that Russia attacked American forces and their allies in Syria last week, suffering heavy casualties.

Yes, all sides admit that there was an incident at a U.S. base in Deir Ezzor. And that elements of the Syrian regime and Shiite militias participated in the assault. The Pentagon and Kremlin both acknowledge that Russian "mercenaries" participated, too. But the line for now is that those contractors had gone rogue, and Moscow didn't know anything about it.

When reporters asked U.S. Secretary of Defense James Mattis about the incident, he called the whole thing perplexing. "I have no idea why they would attack there, the forces were known to be there, obviously the Russians knew," he said. "We have always known that there are elements in this very complex battle space that the Russians did not have, I would call it, control of."

Now, it should be said that Mattis, a retired four-star Marine Corps General, is a very smart man. His perplexity in this case is probably what Plato called a "noble lie," a falsehood spoken by a leader to achieve a greater social good. If Mattis acknowledges the obvious -- that the Kremlin authorized a direct assault on a U.S.-sponsored base by non-uniformed personnel -- he risks an escalation spiral in Syria. Better to express bewilderment and give Russian President Vladimir Putin a chance to back down and deny culpability, which he ended up doing despite the heavy casualties suffered by his mercenaries.

But make no mistake: There is overwhelming evidence that those Russian contractors were working at the behest of the Kremlin. What's more, the Russians knew U.S. military personnel were in Deir Ezzor, which has been part of successive agreements to separate, or "deconflict," forces fighting in Syria.

Rest of the article here:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-16/russia-attacked-u-s-troops-in-syria
 
America moaning that they got attacked in a mix up, in a country they've not been invited to invade and shouldn't be in?
 
For what it's worth, I'll do my part by killing off any nuclear scientists who might be drafted in to research a new type of bomb.
 
Even in the days of the Soviet Union there were (very occasional) direct exchanges of fire between US and Soviet forces, as well as more frequent ones between their proxies. The world could certainly have done without this latest incident, and the situation needs watching, but I don't reckon it's at all likely to escalate.
 
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Even in the days of the Soviet Union there were (very occasional) direct exchanges of fire between US and Soviet forces, as well as more frequent ones between their proxies. The world could certainly have done without this latest incident, and the situation needs watching, but I don't reckon it's at all likely to escalate.
I doubt it's completely without provocation too.

There's a lot more US based independent military contractors indirectly used for operations than there are Russian but the Russian side wouldn't even remotely allow knowledge of such actions to be known by even the majority of their own forces.

If, IF, this was sanctioned by Russia then I imagine its a proxy war that's been going on for a while & neither side will be willing to escalate.
 
When the national anthem starts playing at the wrong time and you're taller than a man who doesn't like being photographed next to taller men...

CFV4MFZ.gif
 
hahaha. that's brilliant. Impossible to say who is the most awkward although I bet the person responsible for starting the music got immediately on the run.
 
If you notice, Putin taps him on the shoulder as if to say "it's ok, you can stand, I won't have you shot".
 
When the national anthem starts playing at the wrong time and you're taller than a man who doesn't like being photographed next to taller men...

CFV4MFZ.gif
I'd be slouching like fuck there, and with slightly bended knees. Probably to the extent that I'd look like I was taking the piss rather than attempting to avoid death. I'd have been bundled into a police van on my way out.
 
Is Putin not allowing tall people to stand next to him actually a thing, or just a joke about his size? It's hard to tell truth from satire in politics these days.
 
Is Putin not allowing tall people to stand next to him actually a thing, or just a joke about his size? It's hard to tell truth from satire in politics these days.
Judging by that clip, I think it must be a thing.
 
How long would Russia and their cold war machinery and dog food last in a war?
Is Putin not allowing tall people to stand next to him actually a thing, or just a joke about his size? It's hard to tell truth from satire in politics these days.

This is the guy that made sure his big black lab/whatever it was, was ready to slobber at the feet of merkel when they met a few years back - merkel having a fear of dogs.
 
I find the whole assassination attempt of the former Spy and his daughter thing a little strange. If the Russians wanted to kill him, there were lots of ways to do it without leaving such a clear calling-card that this was a state-sponsored assassination. Whoever killed him knew where he lived, so why not pay him a visit in his house, robbery gone wrong kind of thing, and then disappear into the night? People might still ask questions, but not to the degree they would when a fucking soviet manufactured nerve agent is used. It is obvious that someone, probably Putin, but not necessarily, wants to engineer serious friction between the U.K. and Russia. To what end is the question.
 
I find the whole assassination attempt of the former Spy and his daughter thing a little strange. If the Russians wanted to kill him, there were lots of ways to do it without leaving such a clear calling-card that this was a state-sponsored assassination. Whoever killed him knew where he lived, so why not pay him a visit in his house, robbery gone wrong kind of thing, and then disappear into the night? People might still ask questions, but not to the degree they would when a fucking soviet manufactured nerve agent is used. It is obvious that someone, probably Putin, but not necessarily, wants to engineer serious friction between the U.K. and Russia. To what end is the question.
I think it's more of a 'fuck you, we're going to kill this guy and make it obvious that we killed him' kind of thing. The fact it was a chemical weapon was probably to add insult to injury. Or rub salt in the wounds. Pick which one you want.
 
I find the whole assassination attempt of the former Spy and his daughter thing a little strange. If the Russians wanted to kill him, there were lots of ways to do it without leaving such a clear calling-card that this was a state-sponsored assassination. Whoever killed him knew where he lived, so why not pay him a visit in his house, robbery gone wrong kind of thing, and then disappear into the night? People might still ask questions, but not to the degree they would when a fucking soviet manufactured nerve agent is used. It is obvious that someone, probably Putin, but not necessarily, wants to engineer serious friction between the U.K. and Russia. To what end is the question.
It's posturing isn't it? Strength between NATO allies and EU members is at an all time low with Trump, Brexit and Erdogan. Putin thinks he can bully one of the old guard and get away with it, that's what he's testing.
 
I find the whole assassination attempt of the former Spy and his daughter thing a little strange. If the Russians wanted to kill him, there were lots of ways to do it without leaving such a clear calling-card that this was a state-sponsored assassination. Whoever killed him knew where he lived, so why not pay him a visit in his house, robbery gone wrong kind of thing, and then disappear into the night? People might still ask questions, but not to the degree they would when a fucking soviet manufactured nerve agent is used. It is obvious that someone, probably Putin, but not necessarily, wants to engineer serious friction between the U.K. and Russia. To what end is the question.

Im not sure anything more,er,severe than Boris not attending the World cup will come from this. RE Motive, either a shot across the bow of the West or simply a message to other potential defectors-its not as of this guy has any value to either side or was living in total secrecy
 
Im not sure anything more,er,severe than Boris not attending the World cup will come from this. RE Motive, either a shot across the bow of the West or simply a message to other potential defectors-its not as of this guy has any value to either side or was living in total secrecy
Yeah. The thing is, there is apparently a code that according to a friend of mine who has worked in the intelligence game (and continues to work in cyber security), you don't kill spooks that have been swapped. He thinks that because Putin himself is a former spook that he wouldn't violate that code unless under exceptional circumstances. I'm not sure I concur with my friend as to what Putin is capable of, but that's his opinion.
 
Yeah. The thing is, there is apparently a code that according to a friend of mine who has worked in the intelligence game (and continues to work in cyber security), you don't kill spooks that have been swapped. He thinks that because Putin himself is a former spook that he wouldn't violate that code unless under exceptional circumstances. I'm not sure I concur with my friend as to what Putin is capable of, but that's his opinion.
Litvinenko ?
 
And the Russians are sending more snow our way, knowing full well the whole countries comes to a standstill. buncha snowflakes
 
Litvinenko ?

He wasn't swapped. He defected through Turkey and claimed asylum. He also worked as a consultant with MI6 as well as being a public thorn in Russia's side- both in respect of the leadership and organised crime from Russia. He's a very different case.
 
He wasn't swapped. He defected through Turkey and claimed asylum. He also worked as a consultant with MI6 as well as being a public thorn in Russia's side- both in respect of the leadership and organised crime from Russia. He's a very different case.
So legal protection that came with the illegals program offers less protection than some unwritten code?
 
So legal protection that came with the illegals program offers less protection than some unwritten code?
I'm just conveying what I've been told HC, but apparently yes. And that much makes sense to me.
 
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I find the whole assassination attempt of the former Spy and his daughter thing a little strange. If the Russians wanted to kill him, there were lots of ways to do it without leaving such a clear calling-card that this was a state-sponsored assassination. Whoever killed him knew where he lived, so why not pay him a visit in his house, robbery gone wrong kind of thing, and then disappear into the night? People might still ask questions, but not to the degree they would when a fucking soviet manufactured nerve agent is used. It is obvious that someone, probably Putin, but not necessarily, wants to engineer serious friction between the U.K. and Russia. To what end is the question.

There seems to be a conscious effort to create a divide, like the whole rigging of the US election. Everyone knows they did it, but if Putin comes out publicly stating they didn't, then it becomes a perceived lack of trust from the US. Same here, we've found it's military grade, Russia are saying show us the samples before we admit anything. They'll examine the samples and have some rigged story that will in some way put the blame on the UK, or rogue operatives in Russia (even that I don't see, as it leads back to blame on Russia). No way will they admit liability, and again it creates this lack of trust that we're showing Russia. They're using all of this for a bigger end game, fuck knows what. But you're right, they've deliberately provoked the UK by operating in this way. Chemical warfare on UK soil? That has some seriously dark potential.

They wanted Trump in power because of how easily manipulated he is, or how volatile. That in itself should have set the alarm bells ringing ages ago. When things really come to a head in Syria, I think that's where it will go one way or the other. There's a power war going on there and I'm not really sure Putin's forces are wholly there to just keep the peace and the original idea of defeating ISIS in Syria while keeping out the power hungry US, seems to have been forgotten. They don't want or need the US there, yet the US are there to observe Russian forces and what stranglehold or allegiance they have with Assad.. A Russian held Damascus raises even more worrying questions and I don't see Assad lasting long, when he quite obviously won't go down the path of a Coalition Government. The bigger picture there seems to be something more sinister when it comes to Russia. And then a Russia with growing allies around Syrian borders? That doesn't bear thinking about.
 
I find the whole assassination attempt of the former Spy and his daughter thing a little strange. If the Russians wanted to kill him, there were lots of ways to do it without leaving such a clear calling-card that this was a state-sponsored assassination. Whoever killed him knew where he lived, so why not pay him a visit in his house, robbery gone wrong kind of thing, and then disappear into the night? People might still ask questions, but not to the degree they would when a fucking soviet manufactured nerve agent is used. It is obvious that someone, probably Putin, but not necessarily, wants to engineer serious friction between the U.K. and Russia. To what end is the question.

I agree with this, it is odd, doesn't make sense. With Litvenenko they spent 20mill just on the Polonium, which normally wouldn't have been detected and was only a bit of a fluke it was. With this guy, it was an absolutely messy, public, way of doing it. A bullet in the back of the head would have been far cheaper and cleaner, and not caught either (I presume this poisoning one, the people are long gone).
It smacks not of the state, but them either putting a contract up and someone doing it in this idiotic way, or, someone else getting involved who wants to stir shit with the Russians, and the Russians can't really do anything as they've no idea on it either and it's been made to look like them. I'm not saying it was them, but the yanks 'could' have easily pulled this one off front to back if they wanted to.
 
If it was the state, it was definitely a message to other defectors. The only reason why I can think of why he was taken out was that he was back being a double agent.

If it wasn't the state, the question remains. Who the fuck has Nivochok. Us? A rogue state? Potentially taken out for the same reason. Selling secrets to the enemy of the people who took him out.

I do lean towards Russia knows far more than they will ever tell us. I mean they follow every enemy of the state. Wherever they are in the world.
 
If it was the state, it was definitely a message to other defectors. The only reason why I can think of why he was taken out was that he was back being a double agent.

If it wasn't the state, the question remains. Who the fuck has Nivochok. Us? A rogue state? Potentially taken out for the same reason. Selling secrets to the enemy of the people who took him out.

I do lean towards Russia knows far more than they will ever tell us. I mean they follow every enemy of the state. Wherever they are in the world.
Theres every posibility ever non-hole country in the world could replicate Nivochok.

Although, Its also important to remember that however shitty you may or may not feel the UK government is, that sentiment and distrust needs to be multiplied by X when considering Russia, they're hardly equals,in any sense
 
Theres every posibility ever non-hole country in the world could replicate Nivochok.

Although, Its also important to remember that however shitty you may or may not feel the UK government is, that sentiment and distrust needs to be multiplied by X when considering Russia, they're hardly equals,in any sense
This twitter thread seems to be interesting.

 
Theres every posibility ever non-hole country in the world could replicate Nivochok.

Although, Its also important to remember that however shitty you may or may not feel the UK government is, that sentiment and distrust needs to be multiplied by X when considering Russia, they're hardly equals,in any sense
But but but.. They are the most diplomatic country in the world. The opposition only get murdered or banned from running against 3 soon to be 4 times re-elected surpreme leader. I mean president putin.
 
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