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Poll young players

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what is the right way to handle them?

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spider-Neil

spider-Neil

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currently henderson is in the team and he isn't exactly tearing shit up. jonjo isn't get getting much playing time. very difficult to know how to treat youth especially in their formative years.
you can loan them out but that seems to be the death knell for a lot of young players. you can play them week in week out so they gain experience on the pitch.
what in your opinion is the best way introuduce young players into the team?
 
Blood them slowly. It gives them the desire to impress when they play. A fleeting 10 minutes here and there and they will try to tear shit up
 
I think it does depend on the individual but my belief is they need to be introduced slowly. Which is difficult to do given the instant success desires from modern day fans.
 
the thing with giving young players a few fleeting moments here and there is I don't think they are gaining enough experience. for instance playing 10 minutes here and there in the premiere league isn't going to be as edifying as playing every minute of every game in the championship (you'd think).
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47034.msg1406144#msg1406144 date=1317202844]
the thing with giving young players a few fleeting moments here and there is I don't think they are gaining enough experience. for instance playing 10 minutes here and there in the premiere league isn't going to be as edifying as playing every minute of every game in the championship (you'd think).
[/quote]

but at least while they're here they learn from their teammates and build up a rapport in training. Getting playing time is all well and good btu if they're not trained to fit into our system then the whole exercise is flawed.

Maybe at 18 a season on loan to learn their trade more, but after that it should all be with the first team
 
I think competitions like the Carling Cup is the ideal blooding ground. It's a shitty competition anyway which I've little interest in whether we win or not (mostly) so use them there. It's not just about experience though neil for me it's about the physical impact on a still developing body. So many players I've seen that have been introduced young seems to suffer long term injury problems - examples at LFC for me are Fowler, Redknapp, Owen, Gerrard but of course there are exceptions to that rule. There's also the mental aspect of having to deal with the pressure put on them instantly from modern day fans who expect a player to be the second coming of Pele before they have matured both mentally and physically. I believe that kind of pressure is out of order myself but you sadly see more and more of it these days.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47034.msg1406147#msg1406147 date=1317203148]
I think competitions like the Carling Cup is the ideal blooding ground. It's a shitty competition anyway which I've interest in whether we win or not (mostly) so use them there. It's not just about experience though neil for me it's about the physical impact on a still developing body. So many players I've seen that have been introduced young seems to suffer long term injury problems - examples at LFC for me are Fowler, Redknapp, Owen, Gerrard but of course there are exceptions to that rule. There's also the mental aspect of having to deal with the pressure put on them instantly from modern day fans who expect a player to be the second coming of Pele before they have matured both mentally and physically. I believe that kind of pressure is out of order myself but you sadly see more and more of it these days.
[/quote]

^^^^
 
I look at henderson and I think kenny is in a sticky situation, I think dropping him now may hit his confidence hard but currently he isn't contributing enough. but then kenny had no problem with dropping flannigan off the team after his fuck up.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47034.msg1406150#msg1406150 date=1317203437]
I look at henderson and I think kenny is in a sticky situation, I think dropping him now may hit his confidence hard but currently he isn't contributing enough. but then kenny had no problem with dropping flannigan off the team after his fuck up.
[/quote]

Kenny can explain to jordan that dirk is needed in a high intensity game like the derby. Then, if dirk plays wel, explain that dirk has played himself into the position and that jordan needs t ostep up

Henderson looks like he's got fuck all confidence anyway so i doubt we'll notice if it takes a knock
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47034.msg1406150#msg1406150 date=1317203437]
I look at henderson and I think kenny is in a sticky situation, I think dropping him now may hit his confidence hard but currently he isn't contributing enough. but then kenny had no problem with dropping flannigan off the team after his fuck up.
[/quote]

I actually think it's very similar mate. Flanno's confidence suffered badly within the confines of a single game after he made mistake and that just compounded the problem. Hendo seems desperately short of confidence now. I think the right thing to do is remove them out the firing line and put and arm around them to explain. After all they are still kids. It hasn't nothing to do with potential footballing ability but more helping them to develop the mental fortitude they need to deal with first team football on a regular basis. Deep end will work for some but not for others. Hence my original post in this topic where it does depend on the individual. Aside from that, although I fully understand frustrations after decades of failure in the league, I'd like to see our fans be more patient with both young and new players to the side.
 
Yep. I think half the battle with players and how you know how good they is when they have that bad game, how they respond in the next one. Some players needed different coaching to get the best from them, right now Henderson isn't doing himself or us any favours, it's like playing with 10 men.
 
The first goal in these games is usually key. The games are so tight at the start with no one wanting to give anything away. We're better keeping it compact and controlling the game and waiting for the breaks though the likes of Suarez.
 
it's a little differenent when you drop older players, they can draw on their experience and come back stronger than ever, dropping young players in their formative years will hit them harder as they don't have that experience to draw on.
also you have some young players who are incredible from day one (gerrard rooney messi) and then you have other players we are more of a slow burn, you can see the talent but it needs to be brought out over a period of time and these players are much harder to accomadate as they may not contribute enough on the way to realising their potential.
 
Its all irrelevant , if a player is good enough , they're good enough .

Age is irrelevant. Did messi or gerrard go on loan to low league clubs Or did the break into the first teams on merit and ability?

I guess given the money in football now players are possibly given fewer and fewer chances due to Multi million pound squad members ready to come in.

although having said that I'd say that Raheem and sterling were both more than capable of giving prem players a torrid time, clearly the people whos opinions matter think otherwise..
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47034.msg1406168#msg1406168 date=1317205129]
it's a little differenent when you drop older players, they can draw on their experience and come back stronger than ever, dropping young players in their formative years will hit them harder as they don't have that experience to draw on.
also you have some young players who are incredible from day one (gerrard rooney messi) and then you have other players we are more of a slow burn, you can see the talent but it needs to be brought out over a period of time and these players are much harder to accomadate as they may not contribute enough on the way to realising their potential.
[/quote]

Small point. Gerrard was not 'incredible' from day one. I was at his debut and he looked out of his depth and a bit of a headless chicken. I remember it distinctly. It took him a little while to develop into the Steven Gerrard player we know today. Back to your post - I don't think it's case of young or old, more so the individual as regards the way people handle things but would agree younger players may perhaps handle being dropped with more difficulty with someone more mature. That is all part of growing up though and maturing as a footballer. The most important thing is doing what is the right thing for the team, not an individual.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47034.msg1406171#msg1406171 date=1317205558]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47034.msg1406168#msg1406168 date=1317205129]
it's a little differenent when you drop older players, they can draw on their experience and come back stronger than ever, dropping young players in their formative years will hit them harder as they don't have that experience to draw on.
also you have some young players who are incredible from day one (gerrard rooney messi) and then you have other players we are more of a slow burn, you can see the talent but it needs to be brought out over a period of time and these players are much harder to accomadate as they may not contribute enough on the way to realising their potential.
[/quote]

Small point. Gerrard was not 'incredible' from day one. I was at his debut and he looked out of his depth and a bit of a headless chicken. I remember it distinctly. It took him a little while to develop into the Steven Gerrard player we know today. Back to your post - I don't think it's case of young or old, more so the individual as regards the way people handle things but would agree younger players may perhaps handle being dropped with more difficulty with someone more mature. That is all part of growing up though and maturing as a footballer. The most important thing is doing what is the right thing for the team, not an individual.
[/quote]

I didn't suggest an age (but I do think 18-24 are a player formative years) it's more level of talent but that level of talent imho goes hand in hand with confidence.
 
I think categorising all young players the same, and all experienced players the same is wrong. They're all different people, and need to be dealt with differently.
 
Haven't made my mind up on Henderson as I never saw him play for Sunderland.

Is he a right sided player?

I thought he was a central midfielder ...
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47034.msg1406172#msg1406172 date=1317205787]

I didn't suggest an age (but I do think 18-24 are a player formative years) it's more level of talent but that level of talent imho goes hand in hand with confidence.
[/quote]

I see where your coming from but not necessarily. I think self confidence helps nurture natural talent but don't think talent is a by-product of confidence. I use Niklas Bentdner and Emile Heskey as the polar ends of the talent/confidence spectrum there. One has loads of confidence but not the talent to back it up and the other had loads of potential talent but no confidence to develop it.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47034.msg1406176#msg1406176 date=1317206044]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47034.msg1406172#msg1406172 date=1317205787]

I didn't suggest an age (but I do think 18-24 are a player formative years) it's more level of talent but that level of talent imho goes hand in hand with confidence.
[/quote]

I see where your coming from but not necessarily. I think self confidence helps nurture natural talent but don't think talent is a by-product of confidence. I use Niklas Bentdner and Emile Heskey as the polar ends of the talent/confidence spectrum there. One has loads of confidence but not the talent to back it up and the other had loads of potential talent but no confidence to develop it.
[/quote]

I was thinking of heskey as well and his confidence. I think the difference between a heskey low on confidence and a henderson low on confidence is heskey will contribute regardless therefore you can afford to leave him in your team.
 
I don't think there is a one size fits all approach - it depends on the player.

I do know that what Liverpool do often is wrong - buy players at the age of 18 and then let them rot in the stands.
 
It depends on the player. Ease them in gently (Matron) is preferable however when they cost 15M I'm not so sure that should be warranted. If they need that approach, they ain't worth 15M.
Keni's right though, our approach to introducing young players has been flawed for years. We panic buy youngsters after seeing what others do with them and don't always know how to handle them.
 
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=47034.msg1406174#msg1406174 date=1317205860]
Haven't made my mind up on Henderson as I never saw him play for Sunderland.

Is he a right sided player?

I thought he was a central midfielder ...
[/quote]

He's a less able and less confident version of Lampard.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47034.msg1406173#msg1406173 date=1317205822]
I think categorising all young players the same, and all experienced players the same is wrong. They're all different people, and need to be dealt with differently.
[/quote]

That sums it up for me.

Although I think it's fair to say you have to be more patient of younger players.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=47034.msg1406261#msg1406261 date=1317220163]
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=47034.msg1406174#msg1406174 date=1317205860]
Haven't made my mind up on Henderson as I never saw him play for Sunderland.

Is he a right sided player?

I thought he was a central midfielder ...
[/quote]

He's a less able and less confident version of Lampard.
[/quote]

What's that based on?
 
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47034.msg1406266#msg1406266 date=1317224110]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=47034.msg1406261#msg1406261 date=1317220163]
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=47034.msg1406174#msg1406174 date=1317205860]
Haven't made my mind up on Henderson as I never saw him play for Sunderland.

Is he a right sided player?

I thought he was a central midfielder ...
[/quote]

He's a less able and less confident version of Lampard.
[/quote]

What's that based on?
[/quote]

My considered and esteemed opinion from the first time I saw him play for us - unmodified since.

Anyway, dmishra agrees, so it's fact.
 
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