A step in the right direction (SU away)

[rurikbird]

Finally, a win and a clean sheet in the Premier League. Yes, to be fair this looked every bit like playing against a Championship-level team, but at least we didn't lose to the training cones. Klopp has tweaked the system to mimic a Pep attacking model and looks like the players enjoyed the new roles and angles, even though our finishing was still far from clinical. At the back, there were a few nervy moments and at least one sitter the opponent missed, but overall it was a deserved and much-needed win. On to Chelsea!

 

[LeTallecWiz]

If we were confident, we'd have won this game within 30 minutes.
The goal was just about pure determination and effort - TAA to not give up on the ball, and Jones to do what he knows how to do.
Bobby should remind himself with his own goal assist that if you shot in that area, good things happen.
The team looked decent - a bit worrying when attacked, but we ourselves attacked well and created a lot of good chances.
I'd be tempted to not change anything, even if fabinho is healthy but if he is, we know Klopp will drop PHillips despite him playing fine again.

 

[the count]

I wonder has Mane been affected by all the pundits calling him a diver.
He clearly was entitled to go down when he was clipped late on in the game.
His legs were bear hugged by the Newcastle keeper and he tried to stay on his feet.
Obviously I don't want our players diving or even trying to initiate contact before going down but if they are fouled I would like them to win the penalty as "staying on your feet" gets you fuck all bar faint praise occasionally from the TV commentator.

 

[Hansern]

 

[Brizzle]

Dominant, better chances created than in recent weeks and you could see confidence returning.

The defence looked shaky on occasion but dealt with direct long ball well.

love Jones when he’s got license to get forward.

Key battles on Thursday will be the full backs, Nat vs Giroud and Jones/ Bobby vs Kante

 

[Hansern]

It was a step in the right direction and confidence grew as the game went on.
Massive 3 points, 12 games to go.

Klopp confirming Jota, Fabinho and Alli back for the Chelsea game.
Onwards and upwards.

 

[rurikbird]

Quick ratings:
Adrian 6.5 – OK, you could tell his flexibility and reflexes are far from the top level, but let's give credit to his decision-making today; there were some difficult moments and he was brave and cool-headed when called upon.
Phillips 7 – yes, he's slow and has the agility of the Tin Man, but he just does everything right, knows his limitations and almost always selects the best option under the circumstances. A likable guy and player.
Kabak 6 – so far exactly what I expected when we bought him, a modern defender with decent athleticism and comfortable on the ball, but boy, he has so much to learn about positioning and tracking his player and so many other things. On this game's evidence I'm not convinced about the viability of the Kabak-Phillips partnership, even in the short-term, and once Fabinho comes back (to play CB, almost certainly), I think it's a close call whether Kabak or Phillips should be his partner.
Trent 7.5 MOM – played as almost a 3rd CB in the first half, using his long range of passing to make himself a factor in attack; unlucky not to score himself, but then in the 2nd created the first goal with a burst to the byline. Made a lot of defensive interceptions and his passing was effortless throughout.
Robertson 6.5 – was asked to play a far more advanced role than almost all season and seemed to enjoy it, but a little wasteful with his final pass. Hope he gets a chance to build on it and get forward more in games to come.
Wijnaldum 7.0 – quietly excellent, did exactly what was needed in most situations and looked a class above the Sheffield midfielders (which he obviously is). Made a couple of key defensive interventions.
Thiago 6.5 – let's not take Thiago's quick and incisive passing for granted, we would have been much worse off without it in this game. Good work-rate too, but I have to take off 0.5 for stupid fouls – you can't keep giving a team like Sheffield set-piece opportunities.
Jones 7.0 – let's hope that well-taken goal gives him more confidence to shoot and score; we desperately need more attacking contribution from midfield. Nice interplay with teammates and once again looks the part.
Mane 6.5 – looked rather lively in his new role as a de-facto #10, but things didn't quite click for him just yet.
Firmino 6.5 – you just can't help but feel a bit of pity for a striker so low on confidence; even his "goal" was way off target and on review was rightly given as an own goal. Maybe his more consistently withdrawn position (in defense, he almost played as a 3rd CM, letting Jones stay forward) is a beginning of a long-overdue reevaluation from Klopp; he's still clearly a good player, but the days when Bobby could shoulder the double burden of being the team's creator and #9 are probably over.
Salah 6.5 – sacrificed himself for the team by staying wide and playing more of a supporting role in this system. Unlucky not to score the 3rd.

SUBS:
Milner 6.0 – did what Milner does
Keita 6.0 – showboat

Klopp 7.5 – unorthodox system tweak paid off in this game. Will need to keep thinking outside the box to rescue this season.

 

[tombrown]

Thought Naby lad was sound. Progresses the ball 50 yards up the pitch on his own

 

[Hansern]

 

[SummerOnions]

 

[binomial]

It’s a job well done but nothing more, all this was was a little confident boost ahead of a proper game which will really determine where we’ll go from now until the end of the season.

sheffield utd are as good as a championship side who had injury problems of their own tonight.

 

[RedStar]

Trent was excellent, he's slowly rebuilt his form after a dreadful period where he looked devoid of confidence, there are a few in the team that could take a lesson from that.

We played well for the most part and Jones has been one of the few bright spots to emerge from this season. Hes getting better and better. Keita looked sharp for the 10 mins he was on the pitch and Milner will give us more options to rest and rotate as well. Curtis coming off the field to strap ice packs onto both knees was not a good sign.

One thing I will say is Phillips is physically way off the level required. Hes going to get done for pace by almost any attacking player that runs in behind him. I don't see how we can persist with him if Klopp wants to keep playing a high line.

 

[Squiggles]

I'm happy Klopp made some systemic changes rather than the copy and paste format we've been used to.

Jones was MOTM by far. Classy performance. He's simply a ridiculously good player for his age.

Can't read to much into it, because Sheffield United are abysmal, but it's not to get a win before we play Chelsea.

 

[moron]

Don't understand where this tweak was, it was still a 4-3-3 formation, the big difference was that the opposition was way below the level of the rest of the PL, and it is understandable why they are bottom of the table. We had to win this game and we did, the differences I noticed from plus point are:

1) more players in the opposition penalty area lining up for any loose balls or crosses.
2) players actually running with the ball into spaces rather than passing straight away or after a second. Gini was really good at that today - it helps in creating spaces by dragging those defenders.
3) Curtis was very good, and Bobby despite his attempts and non-attempts at goal - was very good bringing others into play and at least being in dangerous positions.
4) The defense and goal-keeper hoofing the ball and not taking any silly risks.

The Negatives:

a) Kabak - my God that guy needs to up his awareness of danger around him - I am actually terrified of us defending now, - he scares me.
b) I don't think that the overall defensive display will be anywhere near good enough to stop or contain Chelsea.

The way I see it - we needed to win tonight, and on Thursday if we beat Chelsea - then I see us getting 4th because hopefully with the return of Fab, Keita, and Jota we will have enough to beat whatever comes afterwards.

 

[Markeh]

One thing I will say is Phillips is physically way off the level required. Hes going to get done for pace by almost any attacking player that runs in behind him. I don't see how we can persist with him if Klopp wants to keep playing a high line.

Yup, i loathe to focus on negatives after a good result but this is a problem. It’s fairly clear now why Klopp was avoiding playing him where possible, he can’t do the job we need in our preferred system. Shame because he seems like a good guy and pretty competent in most other aspects.

 

[Mersey86]

A lot of down-playing Sheffield as a decent opponent. We only one 1-0 on a goalkeeper mistake last season when we had a fit squad of players. They are not the same team this season, but we matched Wolves and Tottenham as the only teams to win in Sheffield by a 2-goal margin. Their worst defeat this season was a 4-1 at Chelsea.
Not sure if it has been said elsewhere but this was our first away win this season outside of London.
Good to see Naby and Milner make late substitute appearances. With the possibility of Jota, Allison and Fabinho coming back for Thursday, we are going to have more options off the bench.

 

[Frogfish]

.......
I'd be tempted to not change anything, even if fabinho is healthy but if he is, we know Klopp will drop PHillips despite him playing fine again.

That would be suicide. We looked far from secure at the back and play like that against Chelsea and we'll be crucified.

Fabinho comes back and goes straight into the team. I quite like Kabak but he's getting killed by simple runs through our defence and I hope he doesn't play against Chelsea.

 

[Frogfish]

I wonder has Mane been affected by all the pundits calling him a diver.
He clearly was entitled to go down when he was clipped late on in the game.
His legs were bear hugged by the Newcastle keeper and he tried to stay on his feet.
Obviously I don't want our players diving or even trying to initiate contact before going down but if they are fouled I would like them to win the penalty as "staying on your feet" gets you fuck all bar faint praise occasionally from the TV commentator.

Yep. I can understand why he stayed on his feet vs the keeper, the ball was right there to tap in. However yesterday he was fouled and the ball was going out of play. We know that nowadays no referee is going to give a penalty unless you go to ground and involve VAR. I'm pretty sure VAR would have given that as the defender dived in.

 

[Frogfish]

Quick ratings:
Adrian 6.5 – OK, you could tell his flexibility and reflexes are far from the top level, but let's give credit to his decision-making today; there were some difficult moments and he was brave and cool-headed when called upon.
Phillips 7 – yes, he's slow and has the agility of the Tin Man, but he just does everything right, knows his limitations and almost always selects the best option under the circumstances. A likable guy and player.
Kabak 6 – so far exactly what I expected when we bought him, a modern defender with decent athleticism and comfortable on the ball, but boy, he has so much to learn about positioning and tracking his player and so many other things. On this game's evidence I'm not convinced about the viability of the Kabak-Phillips partnership, even in the short-term, and once Fabinho comes back (to play CB, almost certainly), I think it's a close call whether Kabak or Phillips should be his partner.
Trent 7.5 MOM – played as almost a 3rd CB in the first half, using his long range of passing to make himself a factor in attack; unlucky not to score himself, but then in the 2nd created the first goal with a burst to the byline. Made a lot of defensive interceptions and his passing was effortless throughout.
Robertson 6.5 – was asked to play a far more advanced role than almost all season and seemed to enjoy it, but a little wasteful with his final pass. Hope he gets a chance to build on it and get forward more in games to come.
Wijnaldum 7.0 – quietly excellent, did exactly what was needed in most situations and looked a class above the Sheffield midfielders (which he obviously is). Made a couple of key defensive interventions.
Thiago 6.5 – let's not take Thiago's quick and incisive passing for granted, we would have been much worse off without it in this game. Good work-rate too, but I have to take off 0.5 for stupid fouls – you can't keep giving a team like Sheffield set-piece opportunities.
Jones 7.0 – let's hope that well-taken goal gives him more confidence to shoot and score; we desperately need more attacking contribution from midfield. Nice interplay with teammates and once again looks the part.
Mane 6.5 – looked rather lively in his new role as a de-facto #10, but things didn't quite click for him just yet.
Firmino 6.5 – you just can't help but feel a bit of pity for a striker so low on confidence; even his "goal" was way off target and on review was rightly given as an own goal. Maybe his more consistently withdrawn position (in defense, he almost played as a 3rd CM, letting Jones stay forward) is a beginning of a long-overdue reevaluation from Klopp; he's still clearly a good player, but the days when Bobby could shoulder the double burden of being the team's creator and #9 are probably over.
Salah 6.5 – sacrificed himself for the team by staying wide and playing more of a supporting role in this system. Unlucky not to score the 3rd.

SUBS:
Milner 6.0 – did what Milner does
Keita 6.0 – showboat

Klopp 7.5 – unorthodox system tweak paid off in this game. Will need to keep thinking outside the box to rescue this season.

Very much as I saw it too.

However I'd give Mane a 5.5 or a 6 at most. His control especially but also some of his passing was awful - I don't know where our Mane has gone. It's a toss up whether Mane or Firmino should get dropped for Jota. Maybe coming off the bench with something to prove could be a turning point in his season.

Robbo was nowhere near a 6.5 though, again 5.5. Some of his passing, shooting and heading were terrible, especially considering he was given the whole of the first half playing as a virtual winger.

I thought Keita was very good - lots of confidence and skipping past players in midfield with impudence, that creates space and immediately the forwards were looking to run in behind. His final ball wasn't up to scratch though but at least he was trying them straight off the bat. A good 10 mins that he needs to turn into 90.

 

[Frogfish]

To me that graphic just shows what we saw. Mane was ineffective and he was crowding into space that belonged to the midfielders.

 

[Frogfish]

--- One thing I will say is Phillips is physically way off the level required. Hes going to get done for pace by almost any attacking player that runs in behind him. I don't see how we can persist with him if Klopp wants to keep playing a high line.

To be fair it's an act of desperation that he's playing at all. He was supposed to be playing in the nether reaches of the German BL by now. He's done very well when he's played but he won't be here next season.

 

[King Binny]

 

[Dreambeliever]

I wonder has Mane been affected by all the pundits calling him a diver.
He clearly was entitled to go down when he was clipped late on in the game.
His legs were bear hugged by the Newcastle keeper and he tried to stay on his feet.
Obviously I don't want our players diving or even trying to initiate contact before going down but if they are fouled I would like them to win the penalty as "staying on your feet" gets you fuck all bar faint praise occasionally from the TV commentator.

It also raises the question just because there is contact is it a foul? Mane was clearly caught but easily stayed up.

 

[Squiggles]

Don't understand where this tweak was, it was still a 4-3-3 formation, the big difference was that the opposition was way below the level of the rest of the PL, and it is understandable why they are bottom of the table. We had to win this game and we did, the differences I noticed from plus point are:

1) more players in the opposition penalty area lining up for any loose balls or crosses.
2) players actually running with the ball into spaces rather than passing straight away or after a second. Gini was really good at that today - it helps in creating spaces by dragging those defenders.
3) Curtis was very good, and Bobby despite his attempts and non-attempts at goal - was very good bringing others into play and at least being in dangerous positions.
4) The defense and goal-keeper hoofing the ball and not taking any silly risks.

The Negatives:

a) Kabak - my God that guy needs to up his awareness of danger around him - I am actually terrified of us defending now, - he scares me.
b) I don't think that the overall defensive display will be anywhere near good enough to stop or contain Chelsea.

The way I see it - we needed to win tonight, and on Thursday if we beat Chelsea - then I see us getting 4th because hopefully with the return of Fab, Keita, and Jota we will have enough to beat whatever comes afterwards.

We were a back three in possession, with Robertson advanced. Salah stayed wide most of the game. Jones was more advanced, feeding off Mane was playing more centrally, as was Trent.

If you find the players heat maps you will see differences between this game and our usual style.

 

[Frogfish]

It also raises the question just because there is contact is it a foul? Mane was clearly caught but easily stayed up.

It was a foul. There isn't even a question to be asked.

 

[Stevesquash]

It was a foul. There isn't even a question to be asked.

Yes it was a foul in the current climate. But this is part of the problem. Its become the norm to give a pen for virtually any contact (unless you're a Liverpool player that is)

This means as soon as there's any contact players understandably fling themselves to the ground as they have a great shout at a pen. Compounding this, I've never seen the ref give a foul or a pen when the player stays on his feet. So there's zero incentive to do so usually.

Then you get the commentator and media lauding the pro who doesnt fall over. Why? This isn't the way the game is reffed. There's no upside for anyone save the defending team.

It annoyed me. Well done for not getting a pen! Really?

Until pens are given to players who don't fall over, or pens not given for minimal contact. (would love to see both) We will have "divers". And whilst we have that, we should hit the deck when needed just like everyone else.

Mane needs to up his game in this respect, or in another match it could cost us.

 

[Stevesquash]

To me that graphic just shows what we saw. Mane was ineffective and he was crowding into space that belonged to the midfielders.

I thought our play in general up front was far less predictable and a breath if fresh air. This was down to all the players adapting to their slightly different roles.

Mane was a nuisance in the middle which made space for others. No he wasn't the ultimate destructive force he can be, but he did more than enough to be part of an attack that was quite penetrative, and we haven't been able to say that for a while.

Just great to see gini, Jones, Trent, Keita in those sort of positions and playing with real intent

 

[Hansern]

Mane should have done a Rashford, and gotten a modern day penalty. But, he unlike the diving Manc stayed on his feet. And there was more contact yesterday then when Rashford went down last week.

 

[rurikbird]

Mane was a nuisance in the middle which made space for others. No he wasn't the ultimate destructive force he can be, but he did more than enough to be part of an attack that was quite penetrative, and we haven't been able to say that for a while.

That’s a good point - Mane might not have been very effective in creating chances from that position, but there are few things defenders hate more than a player running directly at them from a central position and Mane is one of the rare players who can pull this off. This created space for the likes of Jones and Firmino to roam between the lines and in the channels, while the defenders were preoccupied with the Mane threat. I don’t think I’ve seen as many wide open spaces inside the opponent’s supposedly “tight” defensive formation against us this season - and that was because we forced them to stretch.

I’d like to see this developed further and hopefully with more effect - one of the drawbacks of this new system has been Salah’s role to provide width; we need the width but we also need our best goalscorer in the middle where he can score goals. It will be also fascinating to see how Jota can be incorporated in this new “front 5” attacking system.

 

[moron]

We were a back three in possession, with Robertson advanced. Salah stayed wide most of the game. Jones was more advanced, feeding off Mane was playing more centrally, as was Trent.

If you find the players heat maps you will see differences between this game and our usual style.

That is not a tweak - that is the same players (we have played for most of the last few games) doing what they are supposed to be doing given the level of opposition. The problem with our players is - that many of them at times this season have shown a lack of in-game intelligence and adapting their ways when things are not going right for them. That is where I believe Man City have always had the advantage with their players.