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Are we now Barca of 5 years ago?

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
The Atalanta game got me thinking – once the team reaches a certain stratospheric level, often the gulf between the "core" players and the ones trying to break into the team becomes almost insurmountable. The small core of players get to start almost every game of importance, playing without rest, in multiple positions if necessary and showing almost superhuman abilities of recovery and endurance. The rest get to sit on the bench patiently and every time someone from outside the "core" is introduced, it visibly affects the cohesion of the whole system and if a few changes at the same time are made, the team becomes unrecognizable like it was for 60 minutes yesterday. A catch-22 situation develops – the fringe players can't build up confidence and trust of teammates without a run of games, but that run of games never ever comes. Fans clamour for fresh blood, but hurl abuse at any fringe player who comes in and performs below the stratospherically high standard (which is most of the time).

In Barca circa 2015, it was pretty much 11 outfield players who carried most of the burden:
Pique
Mascherano
Dani Alves
Sergi Roberto
Alba
Busquets
Rakitic
Iniesta
Messi
Suarez
Neymar


Each one got over 40 appearances and several played in 50+ games. No one else in the squad came close, except the CB/LB Jeremy Mathieu with 30+.

For us, discounting the long-term injury absentees, our core outfield 11 is:
Matip
Fabinho
Trent
Robbo
Gini
Hendo
Thiago (hopefully)
Salah
Mane
Firmino
Jota


In a positive development, it seems that Curtis Jones has managed to break into the rotation recently, the always reliable Milner can still plug holes and Keita gets his minutes when fit, but even with them it's pretty much 12-13 musicians in the "orchestra" who don't mess up the tune. It's really hard to play in 3-4 competitions this way, but there isn't much that can be done to change it – by now the system has grown to be so complex and sophisticated, it takes most newcomers months to learn the basics, the players of the required standard, compatible playing style and character aren't easy to purchase on the market and if the Academy can produce even 1 suitable young player every season, that already should be considered pretty good – Barca's problem in the last 5 years was that their Academy almost completely stopped contributing. Relying on a small core of the same players in most games results in a predictable style that that always makes fans fret that we're on the cusp of being "found out," but then for big games, that close-knit core is usually able to go up another few notches to produce scintillating performances before dropping down the levels dramatically for the opponents they don't respect as much.

Klopp will of course try all he can to maintain a consistent level, but this is probably not something any manager can fully control – unless you operate on a Man City-like budget where you can purchase multiple "clones" of the same player type and pay people millions to sit on the bench. So I guess my point is, given the financial realities and the inner logic of squad development, we should now expect a period of small, generally overworked, but sometimes still exhilarating core squad surrounded by fringe players who are all made to look even more inept by the lack of playing time. It can be irritating for fans to see those drastic fluctuations in quality, but then we do have to appreciate how historically good those 12-13 main players are and how hard it is for anybody else to even approach that standard.

For the reference, that 2015-16 Barca squad won the league by a point, won Copa del Rey and were eliminated in the CL quarters – by Atletico Madrid, of course.
 
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But you've taken the Barca team sans injuries so to do the same to ours you have to add Gomez & VvD to those 11 and I'd also add Keita because when he's fit he clearly adds something we lack - penetration and creativity from midfield - and he'll get plenty of games. Also as you said we can also add Jones, so we are now looking at 15 outfield players that form the core.
 
We're not. We made some wholesale changes and the team are tired. They're playing a ridiculous amount of games. The recruitment is too good to turn into Barca. Barcelona could still be fantastic if they had spent the Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann money well but they didn't. How much is that in total? Over 300 million? You would improve any team in the world with that kind of money.
 
One major challenge we'll face is majority of the current core are around the same age.

These are figures are based on last season's squad but ours hasn't change much.
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Isnt this legit the problem with any side? They tend to have a solid core who the team is built around, and anyone else is to fill the gaps?

I think the major issues we encountered last night (and in general) are 1) It's too soon for Neco. He might develop, but he's clearly not go tthe same ceiling as Trent. Our play is through the fullbacks, and he's not ready to contribute. Kostas could be useful, as he looked capable, and look forward to him being up to speed; and 2) Fucking divock shouldn't start for us ever again

The other issues we have is a severe lack of creativity in our midfield, but that seems to have been the case for a while now, even while winning stuff
 
Jota seems to have stepped up perfectly in time for bobby to start waning. The issue now is finding someone who can do bobbys role, or play similar to jota when he's unavailable. Divock isn't the guy, and Taki seems too lightweight at the minute for that role. I'd love to see taki at the tip of the triangle in midfield
 
We beat Barca 4-0 with Origi and Shaq instead of Bobby and Mo. and with Robbo having to go off injured at HT.
We're fine considering we are fucked with injuries and being made to play aver 36 hours.
We'll qualify from this group and last night will be barely remembered.
 
I find it weird when people keep listing Thiago as a core player in our team thats missing through injury. Hes started one game for us.

Yeah, I had doubts about this too, but hopefully he’s close to recovering and contributing in a major way.

@Frogfish, the 11 “core” Barca players were the ones who played most minutes that season, they also (I think) had long-term absentees that were not counted.
 
I find it weird when people keep listing Thiago as a core player in our team thats missing through injury. Hes started one game for us.
As JM said. He's a world class player so will absolutely be core once (whenever) he's fit.
 
As JM said. He's a world class player so will absolutely be core once (whenever) he's fit.

The original premise of a core player in this thread was based on Barca players who played 40+ games a season. Being world class has nothing to do with it. If Thiago gets to 40 games this season Ill be amazed.
 
The original premise of a core player in this thread was based on Barca players who played 40+ games a season. Being world class has nothing to do with it. If Thiago gets to 40 games this season Ill be amazed.
Strange then that even Rurik called him core in his opening post?
 
I get why we bought Thiago and he is a phenomenal player but I was always worried about his injury record. If he gets 2700 minutes (30 full matches) in across all comps I'll be surprised. He's core in so far as when he is fit he'll be starting most important games but he's like Fabio, Agger or Aquilani as far as injuries and that derailed all of their prem careers more than anything else. Injury prone and going to the most demanding league in the world with one of the two most demanding managers in the world... its always been a risk. And yes... this injury has nothing to do with injury proneness but it defintely gets you concerned.

Hal needs to add a special campaign just for him... Thiago is dead...
 
I get why we bought Thiago and he is a phenomenal player but I was always worried about his injury record. If he gets 2700 minutes (30 full matches) in across all comps I'll be surprised. He's core in so far as when he is fit he'll be starting most important games but he's like Fabio, Agger or Aquilani as far as injuries and that derailed all of their prem careers more than anything else. Injury prone and going to the most demanding league in the world with one of the two most demanding managers in the world... its always been a risk. And yes... this injury has nothing to do with injury proneness but it defintely gets you concerned.

Hal needs to add a special campaign just for him... Thiago is dead...

Thiago, if he does even exist, won't make 15 league appearances this season.
 
Strange then that even Rurik called him core in his opening post?

Yes it is strange, perhaps he was being optimistic because I cant see Thiago meeting the criteria of a 'core' player. Do you actually think hes going to start 40 games a season? Id say he wont start 30
 
Yes it is strange, perhaps he was being optimistic because I cant see Thiago meeting the criteria of a 'core' player. Do you actually think hes going to start 40 games a season? Id say he wont start 30
This season for sure more likely to be around that 30 however I suppose it's how you define core. Maybe, 'importance to our success' is a better parameter to use. And I'd say he may be that in both CL & PL, considering the absence of VvD & Gomez, since if we are to be successful then it's our midfielders that are going to need to perform.
 
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