I know, it's crazy. It was essentially a bad half of football from a tired looking team.
Besiktas – secong leg MATCH THREAD
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I know, it's crazy. It was essentially a bad half of football from a tired looking team.
Club Bugger are leading the Belgian league. They're no mugs, not by a long way.
Even if that's true, which I doubt, if it comes at the cost of a CL place, which anything short of actually winning the thing could well have done, then it's still not worth staying in it.
Absolutely. We don't exist just "to win trophies". We exist to win the ones that matter.
I've always hated that mantra, because people don't actually seem to take it in the spirit it's intended - something like 'our aim is to be the best' - but instead focus on its literal meaning of actually accruing trophies for trophies' sake.
We want to win trophies to the extent that they're a token of achieving the fundamental aim, and some trophies fulfill that role very well and some don't. The Europa League and the FA cup are IMO somewhere in the middle - well worth winning but not if they come at a heavy price in terms of more meaningful achievement.
Pissing it down all night as well.
Couldn't disagree more. The worst thing that happened to football is that we get 4 places in the CL. Two was plenty. I would rather try and win stuff than spend every year just trying to finish fourth. Can't stand it.
What a crock. There are only the league cup, the FA cup, the league and one of the European trophies on offer. So you're happy not to win trophies.
The Arsenalisation is complete.
I despair.
Get over yourself. The league and Bigears matter. The others are icing on the cake, period.
It's Belgium. When is the last time a Belgian team did anything ... Anderlecht about 1894 would be my guess 😉
Since the final is at the end of each season most of the time that's not the case anyway !
Im with the silverest of Seans.
And its not about any old soundbite about existing for trophies. Its about being a football club. I dont want to finish top 4 and play in Europe even if its a means to an end (of you believe it is and not a carrot you are forever chasing) I want to go to Wembley and take home silverware and extend our trophy cabinet.
Im not arguing that im right or anything, each to their own, and I do get prioritising the league and european cup over the FA cup and league cup but id still rather win a cup than decide not too for 'commercially sensible' reasons.
I cant state this highly enough, I REALLY love it when we win trophies. Like A LOT.
And its not about any old soundbite about existing for trophies. Its about being a football club. I dont want to finish top 4 and play in Europe even if its a means to an end (of you believe it is and not a carrot you are forever chasing) I want to go to Wembley and take home silverware and extend our trophy cabinet.
Im not arguing that im right or anything, each to their own, and I do get prioritising the league and european cup over the FA cup and league cup but id still rather win a cup than decide not too for 'commercially sensible' reasons.
I cant state this highly enough, I REALLY love it when we win trophies. Like A LOT.
Who doesn't? But I'll tell you what I like most of all - by a long chalk - and that's winning the big ones. Prioritising those is absolutely not just a commercial decision.
Well to be fair Jules you did say 'we exist to win the ones that matter'
To me they all matter.
Fair point, but - IMHO of course - some do so a lot less than others. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [Handshake graemlin]
As I've said before, I usually completely agree with this, but cos of the jump in cl revenue this season I think it's essential to qualify in order to stand a chance of winning trophies in the years to come, miss out on 4th this season & it's hard to imagine us challenging for anything outside of the league fa cup for years.
But its the same story every single year mate. 'The money THIS year' etc.
Its a dangling carrot.
Next year it will be the same thing.
'The commercially sensible' thing is just a massive straw man. I don't, and I'm guessing Jules doesn't either, give a toss how big our revenue is or what kind of fees we can afford. That's not what football's about.
But you know what? Football's not about collecting silverware qua silverware either. It's basically about glory, and a kind of dynastic, tribal glory at that - and that means success is the aim, but specifically sustained success. I'd guess if you managed to get fans of big clubs to think in terms of real words and concepts instead of cliches, 95% would agree that's what they support the team for. The Shankly idea.
To me that's all there is to it. I want us to be that team, and I think it's really obvious that we'll find it *much* harder to ever get back to winning titles (or possibly even retain much hope of winning the occasional cup) if we don't qualify for the CL pretty consistently. I don't really see how anyone can disagree with that. Of course, you can decide not to play along with the way the sport's gone and just accept us permanently as an occasional cup winner, but that's the reality of the choice.
But you know what? Football's not about collecting silverware qua silverware either. It's basically about glory, and a kind of dynastic, tribal glory at that - and that means success is the aim, but specifically sustained success. I'd guess if you managed to get fans of big clubs to think in terms of real words and concepts instead of cliches, 95% would agree that's what they support the team for. The Shankly idea.
To me that's all there is to it. I want us to be that team, and I think it's really obvious that we'll find it *much* harder to ever get back to winning titles (or possibly even retain much hope of winning the occasional cup) if we don't qualify for the CL pretty consistently. I don't really see how anyone can disagree with that. Of course, you can decide not to play along with the way the sport's gone and just accept us permanently as an occasional cup winner, but that's the reality of the choice.
In the short term. I might as accurately accuse you of wanting us to be Swansea City.
Yeah, you're probably right.
This is also why I'm convinced I might win the lottery every single week, despite only putting on one line.
I'm obviously a glass half full of unicorns kinda guy.
Honestly though who cares how much money the owners make if we play shit and don't win anything?
2.25 for me. I class it as way more important than any of the domestic Cup competitions or the Europa thingy for the reasons peterhague sets out above.
If they don't make money, we don't get top players or develop the club in other respects. I don't want us to play sh!t, but however we play I'd sooner get 4th than play swashbuckling football to win a shiny pot which means bugger all, because the league is what will make us a dynasty again.
Who even wanted to win the thing at the start of the season?
It's been a crap tournament for years now. Since they scrapped the UEFA and Cup Winner Cup. We only "qualified" for it by being less shit than those Bulgarian turnip farmers.
It is way down the list of priorities. And I hate the Thursday/Sunday fixtures.
It's been a crap tournament for years now. Since they scrapped the UEFA and Cup Winner Cup. We only "qualified" for it by being less shit than those Bulgarian turnip farmers.
It is way down the list of priorities. And I hate the Thursday/Sunday fixtures.
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