Big game blues

[Tinto]

That’s right, forgot about that one. October 16, 2022. Salah scored the winner.

As you can see from @King Binny’s stats above though, even with the occasional win like that, it’s a far cry from early Klopp Liverpool when we were an absolute menace to top teams (while not always having the consistency against the rest). It feels like in the last 5 years, with CL included, there have been lots of draws against top teams, but very few wins. Which is why that FA Cup win away at Arsenal felt like a potential watershed moment - it looked like we found a new winning formula, but then we didn’t sustain it.

Klopp's first team got figured out eventually and then it got old.

Now we're a team in transition and really dependent on Klopp getting his in game management spot on.

He got it right in the league game against City to salvage a point and in he FA Cup win against Arsenal, but messed it up in the league game

 

[King Binny]

View: https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1757419608284246047

 

[bluebell]

If we play Arse now we would not lose. They were lucky in that we had too many players out and couple of our top players really had an off day.
We win everygame from here on in, we will win the league

 

[rurikbird]

So far this season, City also have “big game blues.” Arsenal are by far the best team at playing against other top teams.

 

[King Binny]

View: https://twitter.com/BenBocsak/status/1769464913234112544

 

[rurikbird]

*bump*

What is it about the reds in big games this season? We dont lack quality, but somehow we cannot find the right attitude…

 

[Frogfish]

*bump*

What is it about the reds in big games this season? We dont lack quality, but somehow we cannot find the right attitude…

Attitude? It's not attitude. It's finishing.

 

[StevieM]

We’ve become the Arsenal we accuse Arsenal of being?

 

[Tinto]

We’ve been on the end of some bad refereeing in these games this season. Should have got a penalty against Arsenal and City at Anfield and no point talking about the VAR fiasco at Spurs

 

[binomial]

Attitude? It's not attitude. It's finishing.

Or games like yesterday and Arsenal away....defending and shooting ourselves in the foot more than once.

 

[Frogfish]

Or games like yesterday and Arsenal away....defending and shooting ourselves in the foot more than once.

Yeah but if we had finished better it would never have come down to that. They'd have been dead and buried long before.

 

[binomial]

Yeah but if we had finished better it would never have come down to that. They'd have been dead and buried long before.

What real big chances did we miss in those 2 games? Can't always rely on your forwards to bail you out, sometimes you need the defence to come out on top as well.

Arsenal we had 1 shot on target all game. Utd we had an xG of 2.15 or something and scored 3.......we have bigger problems than we think if we can concede 7 goals in those 2 games and blame the finishing.

 

[keniget]

*bump*

What is it about the reds in big games this season? We dont lack quality, but somehow we cannot find the right attitude…

Same thing as I said earlier in the thread (if memory serves). Lack of a killer instinct.

There have been plenty of games against lesser sides with similar issues - starting off slowly, conceding multiple big chances, missing several big chances, not really getting going till the second half etc etc.

You can't consistently get away with shit like that against the better teams.

 

[rurikbird]

Same thing as I said earlier in the thread (if memory serves). Lack of a killer instinct.

There have been plenty of games against lesser sides with similar issues - starting off slowly, conceding multiple big chances, missing several big chances, not really getting going till the second half etc etc.

You can't consistently get away with shit like that against the better teams.

Yeah, I was thinking that too during our 2nd half domination period - it seemed as if we didn’t want to kill off the game, we were far to casual. Strange trait to have in this team of otherwise great characters. It’s almost like they need adversity to fire them up to be clinical; as soon as the opponent is on the ropes they start faffling about.

 

[Farkmaster]

Yeah, I was thinking that too during our 2nd half domination period - it seemed as if we didn’t want to kill off the game, we were far to casual. Strange trait to have in this team of otherwise great characters. It’s almost like they need adversity to fire them up to be clinical; as soon as the opponent is on the ropes they start faffling about.

I didn't think we were failing to be sharp due to some complacency, I just thought the legs in midfield weren't there so we were hesitant to full bore attack with any width, as we kept having to sprint back due to any wellied ball down our left.

Couple that with the fact that our attack is impressively deep, but for me just isn't there yet, if it ever gets there. I'm not that convinced with any of our front threes we can put out, not at the highest level. Salah isn't salah of years ago, I don't give a fuck what his goalscoring shows. He just isn't anywhere near as threatening on the ball. Jota is a great finisher, but doesn't have the pace or presence to lead a line. Diaz is a terror on the dribble but isn't integrated in any way to the attack, and flatters to deceive. Nunez is the most promising, but his flaws are well known, and he showed some real hesitancy yesterday. I like him better being forced to be the man, with Salah out. Gakpo is the only player over this entire season who hasn't had any moment of really stepping up to fill someones boots. Perhaps tsimikas i guess.

The individuals aside though, while our midfield has found real form at times, our attack which has been changing fucking constantly due to injury, rarely demonstrates any great understanding of each others runs. Not at an elite level. The sorts of patterns of play and instinctive understanding our old trio showed at its best just isn't there, and why would it be, if they can even carry it off? It took time for that to happen.

All of them are enough to shit on most teams, and to hurt teams when the midfield and our overall play exhausts the other team. You can't always do that though, you can't sustain second half vs City for most of a season.

I didn't think any of our forward line played well at all.

This is so shit before an international break. I'm really gutted.

 

[Squiggles]

Gut feeling tells me they miss Henderson and Milner getting them riled up in the changing rooms. The problem is not just a big game issue. We start games too slowly and seem to gladly accept going a goal down. We've received loads of praise for scoring late and relying on subs, however there is a lack of scrunity into why we consistently need bailing ourselves out. As Keni says, you can't keep getting away with it and the better sides can put away enough chances.

This side needs to learn to put up complete performances over ninety minutes, ones where we're not relying on Alisson producing four world class sides or Nunez getting a last ditch goal. This sounds like nitpicking, and it is, but margins are too tight for it to but be an issue.

 

[Farkmaster]

I don't see how anyone can think that we have a motivation issue.

I agree that we aren't putting complete performances in. That's a rare thing that only very elite sides do. We aren't there yet. I don't even think this team can get there, I don't even know what this team is yet.

 

[localny]

What do the stats say? I remember Klopp used to go into these games with heavy metal football. Been a while since we did that.

Mind you in the 80s, event at the top, we'd lose big games like this.

This is life.

Just don't bottle the PL Man U game lads.

 

[Fabio]

I don't think it's a fire in the belly thing, it's more than likely a jaded from playing every single fucking game while teammates drop like flies

Nice international break to recover for a few of the lads, come back full of vim and vigour. Jota and Trent coming back as well could be huge

Just have to hope for a draw in the city/arsenal game, or worst case scenario, a city win

 

[Farkmaster]

What do the stats say? I remember Klopp used to go into these games with heavy metal football. Been a while since we did that.

Mind you in the 80s, event at the top, we'd lose big games like this.

This is life.

Just don't bottle the PL Man U game lads.

Man U are what we were with respect to them years ago. Not in the title discussion, but willing to raise themselves for a game against the big enemy, a cup team.

The difference is that the law of averages and their buying power means that it's more important for us to keep a foot on their neck whenever possible.

I have never thought we are going to get a title this year, but don't let Everton or United have any say about it. They'll be up for it again.

 

[localny]

One loss and I'm gutted. Says a lot about how well the lads are doing overall.

I hope the have the character for the big games coming.

 

[Farkmaster]

I hope the have the character for the big games coming.

One thing is for sure... We don't.

 

[rurikbird]

Gut feeling tells me they miss Henderson and Milner getting them riled up in the changing rooms. The problem is not just a big game issue. We start games too slowly and seem to gladly accept going a goal down. We've received loads of praise for scoring late and relying on subs, however there is a lack of scrunity into why we consistently need bailing ourselves out. As Keni says, you can't keep getting away with it and the better sides can put away enough chances.

This side needs to learn to put up complete performances over ninety minutes, ones where we're not relying on Alisson producing four world class sides or Nunez getting a last ditch goal. This sounds like nitpicking, and it is, but margins are too tight for it to but be an issue.

I think you’re onto something here. Virge is well capable of giving a bollocking to his fellow defenders, but ideally you need a vocal leader in every line. He is not going to scream at Diaz for missing a chance or Gakpo for fluffing his lines, but sometimes someone should. We’re too nice, too “vegetarian”; we had teams where we want them and left them off the hook too many times this season not to start noticing the pattern. We need to learn to kick people when they are down.

He is young, but actually I think Elliott has what it takes to drive teammates forward both by word and example. Also we’re missing Trent who is definitely one of the leaders of this group.

 

[King Binny]