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Blind faith

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mom

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does anyone still have any in Klopp.
Before some idiot says this is a Klopp out thread, it isn't. I still want him at the helm, and he's a good manager, but our inability to beat a bus, out late substitutions and our still shitty defence mean there are more questions around him than I'd like. Just getting Klopp was a huge coup and I'm glad we've got him, but after seeing his success at Dortmund, I have to admit I had a certain amount of blind faith in him, naively or not. Haven't any longer though, and I hope to god that the Liverpool of the last six months isn't out true level and that he can really push on next season. We shall see
 
It's no worries with Klopp. He has what it takes. Just give him time.

So far he has started to clean out some average players, worked with others and has made significant progress.
 
I dont think there is anything special about him.

Genuinely seen fuck all to make me think he will win anything.

Hes funny though so thats alright.
 
I said I would be happy if we finished 4th and we're on target to do so. It's next season I expect us to start competing and the year after we should win it.If you look at our points tally with Mane in the Squad we'll probably near Chelsea.
@King Binny am I right?
 
I identified his mental instability within a matter of weeks. You all mocked me whilst being fooled by his phoney personality and bullshit charisma, but dantes knows he always knows.
 
err im on the fence.

it is looking like there has been clear progress in the league (touch wood)

but he looks far too stubborn in his approach to games and stoke aside that was a gimme with the bench options I have yet to see him affect a game after either kick off

he comes across as an ace guy though.

there were a load of people on here citing his ability to attract top players to the club as being a big bonus to his appointment , we need to see that this summer me thinks.

how long does he get before he needs to deliver ? I mean , a different klopp wins us two trophies in his first season so I think he's shown what he's capable of with the club but yeh , the top four is a definite start
 
The first half of this season has shown Klopp can build an attack. It was as good as any we've had, but built without the sheer quality of players available to Ged, Rafa and Rodgers.

Ultimately, it's how well Klopp does in the Summer transfer windows that will show if he has what it takes.
 
I think he is the right man for us, and wants to play a certain style - but if you want to apply the term 'blind faith' then it can only be applied to those people on here that actually believe we have the players to do the job. We don't guys - there is not enough quality in that team to beat a very solid organised defense, you need (as was said by T.Henry at half time) - players that can cause problems via 1-on-1 situations in the final third. We ONLY have Mane to do that for us and we know he is injured. If you look at the other top teams that have played against Southampton - you will see that they have beaten them good - we have not registered a single goal against them this season which is appalling.

The January period where we failed to register a win was a sign we needed someone to cover for Mane - we did nothing in the transfer market and now we find ourselves in the same position. We have to win the next two games - but for the life of me - I have no idea where those goals are gonna come from. The players we have just cannot manage to play against crowded defenses - that is the unfortunate thing. The only hope we have with this lot is that someone needs to tell them to move faster and to pass faster.
 
My problem with what you are all saying there is that this is his squad. He didnt arrive yesterday, hes had 2 January windows and a full summer.

He hasnt signed a striker
He signed Karius
He signed Klavan
He hasnt signed a LB
He hasnt signed a DM

He paid 25m for Wijnaldum (the black Joe Allen)

Hes had 3 windows and basically signed Mane right? Like first team QUALITY.

Our best keeper
Our best LB
Our best CB
Our best RB
Our best CM
Our best AM
Our best LWF
Our best striker
All signed before he got here.

3 windows £70m+ spent and we have one better player than we had before.

Throw in the fact he has no influence at all IN GAME, he makes poor substitutions, bad starting line ups, poor tactical decisions, cant coach a defense, cant adapt to face different teams, has no plan B. Hes shit in cup finals, hes shit in the cups and makes crap choices. There is a LOT for him to prove.

Dont get me wrong ive not given up or anything but blind faith is a massive no.

I think what hes finding is that in England it isnt like Germany or Spain or Italy where you have 3 good teams and a lot of cannon fodder.

Im just hoping he learns in summer and we see a lot more next year. Missing those opportunities against shit teams is not good enough
 
My problem with what you are all saying there is that this is his squad. He didnt arrive yesterday, hes had 2 January windows and a full summer.

He hasnt signed a striker
He signed Karius
He signed Klavan
He hasnt signed a LB
He hasnt signed a DM

He paid 25m for Wijnaldum (the black Joe Allen)

Hes had 3 windows and basically signed Mane right? Like first team QUALITY.

Our best keeper
Our best LB
Our best CB
Our best RB
Our best CM
Our best AM
Our best LWF
Our best striker
All signed before he got here.

3 windows £70m+ spent and we have one better player than we had before.

Throw in the fact he has no influence at all IN GAME, he makes poor substitutions, bad starting line ups, poor tactical decisions, cant coach a defense, cant adapt to face different teams, has no plan B. Hes shit in cup finals, hes shit in the cups and makes crap choices. There is a LOT for him to prove.

Dont get me wrong ive not given up or anything but blind faith is a massive no.

I think what hes finding is that in England it isnt like Germany or Spain or Italy where you have 3 good teams and a lot of cannon fodder.

Im just hoping he learns in summer and we see a lot more next year. Missing those opportunities against shit teams is not good enough

So, with essentially the same players he's got them playing better and we're higher up the league. So that's better management, no?

And how can he be shit in the cup if he gets to the cup finals / semi-finals?

To me he's came in with a lot of high expectations and he's shown he can manage to team to play some awesome football. Yet, he's also shown his weaknesses and that's doesn't gel with the high expectations.

Think this currently a storm in a tea cup but he has to deliver a trophy next season.
 
@Oncy

yeah - and that one player Mane - is better than the rest of the team because when he plays the whole team is like top notch.. and Klopp signed him. As for Gini - got now problem with him - he retains that ball well in midfield, he does a lot of work.
 
My problem with what you are all saying there is that this is his squad. He didnt arrive yesterday, hes had 2 January windows and a full summer.

He hasnt signed a striker
He signed Karius
He signed Klavan
He hasnt signed a LB
He hasnt signed a DM

He paid 25m for Wijnaldum (the black Joe Allen)

Hes had 3 windows and basically signed Mane right? Like first team QUALITY.

Our best keeper
Our best LB
Our best CB
Our best RB
Our best CM
Our best AM
Our best LWF
Our best striker
All signed before he got here.

3 windows £70m+ spent and we have one better player than we had before.

Throw in the fact he has no influence at all IN GAME, he makes poor substitutions, bad starting line ups, poor tactical decisions, cant coach a defense, cant adapt to face different teams, has no plan B. Hes shit in cup finals, hes shit in the cups and makes crap choices. There is a LOT for him to prove.

Dont get me wrong ive not given up or anything but blind faith is a massive no.

I think what hes finding is that in England it isnt like Germany or Spain or Italy where you have 3 good teams and a lot of cannon fodder.

Im just hoping he learns in summer and we see a lot more next year. Missing those opportunities against shit teams is not good enough

Our best centre back is Matip who he signed, our best left back was made a left back by him, he signed arguably our player of the season in Mane, and he transformed Lallana it a stellar performer, heck 4 weeks ago everyone was gushing of Gini too. A lot of your concerns are very valid, and he has to improve in those areas, but a lot of what you've just written is just hyperbole.
 
The forum likes to have extreme black or white opinion... It's not new, we have seen it on many subjects and I have actively contributed to that (cough Lucas cough)...

Some posters are now setting up the base for "I told you so" posts...but will conveniently forget this thread if they were proved wrong.
 
Bit of an absurd question, since it can't be answered in the affirmative.

I think this football club is a dying star, and I think the same about modern football. In that respect I have almost no faith left. I think what is most admirable about Klopp is that he's willing to gamble on his good will and managerial ability to try to achieve long term success. I think his transfer strategy is down to club finances in large part, but I also think it's reflective of his belief that he could get fourth with what he had. A bit more luck with injuries and we'd have easily got there. A little less, and we'd be out by now. If he does, I think he'll be in a strong position. If he doesn't, I don't think it's the end of the world, but it could easily spell his end, such is the fickle nature of the job.

That gamble used to be more about management, but the patience of supporters is more at issue now. He has attempted to forge some sort of relationship with supporters a way that I don't find pandering, and I think it's laudable. The problem is that our supporters will give up on a manager in no time flat, and any time any manager achieves any temporary glimmer of brilliance, the expectations become wholly out of proportion. Being manager of Liverpool in that respect, is a bit of a poisoned chalice, and it isn't as though our support at home does anything for the team, for the most part.

I generally hope for the best for all our managers, the only one I've actively hated was Hodgson, because he was clearly some interloper installed by assholes. I don't understand how anyone could hate Benitez, since he's given us such a great moment of joy, the only truly great one in my memory, and he seems to be a decent professional family man. I can certainly understand not liking him as a manager. None of them have been perfect. I would prefer to celebrate all of them for their accomplishments, for the same reason I'm not going to remember the game today a couple weeks from now, if we are to come fourth, or if we were to win a game on that Saturday. To catalog all the failures of our managers doesn't seem particularly helpful, or, I don't know, fun. Clearly our decline isn't exclusively a narrative of managerial progression anyway.

So fuck it, I still like Klopp, and think he's a good manager, just as I did with Benitez & Houllier. Currently his actual success with us is as ambiguous as it was under Rodgers, who I found to be not a bad person, but a bit dim.

But by all means, get rid of him, then do it again, and again and again. Every time you'll care a little less then the whole thing goes supernova.
 
I have faith. His success will depend on his ability to recognise inspired individuals. From unexpected quarters.
 
I'm a huge Klopp fan, and still have an incredibly high level of faith in him. Not blind faith though.

But he lost major points with me yesterday. Waiting for 68 minutes to throw on Lallana and Sturridge when the writing was on the wall after just 10 minutes, and us creating zero was a bit like a stubborn Benitez at his worst.
 
All managers, even those when at the top of their game, have weaknesses. Anyone care to name Mourinho's, Wenger's, Guardiola's, Pochettino's ? Maybe even Conte's, Zidane's Enrique's or Ancelloti's ? We have all seen and recognise Klopp's. However even with those weaknesses he has taken our floundering club from mid-table mediocrity to the cusp of CL qualification, out-performing, or being within a point or so of, those with far larger and better squads and huge bankrolls.

He and his coaching staff have taken players under-valued on 6CM and shown how they can make valuable contributions to the team. He has brought in Mane and Matip, both looking like stalwarts of the team for the next 5 years, converted Milner to LB so solve a burning issue and has blooded youngsters who look they will become solid first team squad additions. No manager has a 100% transfer success rate but the jury is still out on Karius and maybe Wijnaldum (though he could just be tiring - it looks that way) and even Klavan was a solid buy for a #4 CB.

He,and no doubt FSG, took a calculated gamble this season that looks like it's about to pay off big-time. Without buying in first team mediocrity, or at least players without anything special about them, simply for squad numbers, Klopp should now find himself with a very large transfer kitty to go out and find the special players needed to take the team to the next level, challenging in the PL, cups and Europe (where success would be at least CL quarters). Players that wouldn't move to Liverpool unless Klopp proves that we can qualify for the CL and be competitive in both Europe and the PL (both of which is now proven. whilst accepting the CL is another level from the EL).

That is the challenge for Klopp and where we will see if he has what it takes, though even if next season is not a resounding success, a consolidation of Top 4 and an improvement in team tactics demonstrated by an ability to put weaker teams away whilst remaining highly competitive against stronger PL teams, would still represent incremental progress.
 
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Lallana showed that he's also a bit far from being match fit though. Given both their injuries and time away, it wasnt exactly the worst idea to have them as impact players. The change could have maybe come 10 mins earlier, but if Milner scores from the penalty nobody would bother about it anyway.

I've still got faith in Klopp. He's a great manager and a perfect fit for us and the club.
A lot of hyperbole comments about him after a frustrating game, but he took us to two cup finals without signing a player. And this season we were playing some out of this World football until injuries and international breaks caught up with our paper thin squad. Our points total and final league position will be an improvement from last season.

Still got issues with the defense, set pieces and squad depth. But I think we'll see even more improvement during the summer before next season starts.

It will take time to make us a force again, but he's the right manager to do it.
 
I'm a bit long in the tooth to have blind faith in any individual but I do think we'll continue to improve slowly. They key for me is resources. I think we have a better manager than playing staff and that is what he should concentrate on improving the most. His character and coaching seem sound to my limited knowledge, his recruitment and his staff's ability to keep players fit are yet to be proven.
 
I think at the outset of this season the general consensus was top 4 was a realistic target and we are there or therabouts. To now rewrite being in the top four as some great managerial achievement because of the lack of quality in the squad is nonsense (especially when you've spent the season telling everyone that you think player X is way better than he is.)

Klopp is doing fine but for every look at what he did with Milner/ Lallana/ whoever ... there's a look at what he's done with Sturridge/ Origi / Sakho.

Our transfer activity still leaves a lot to be desired. But that shouldn't be Klopp's responsibility - thats a club failure.

For me the one thing Klopp needs to address is the general conditioning of the squad. Too many players have broken down and/or are dead on their feet at the end of the season and we don't have European football clogging up our fixture list this season.
 
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