Doing too much?

[Modo]

I know I could've posted this in one of the many transfer threads, but I'm an attention whore so here we are.

Why did we win the league? Or more specifically, what was one of the key reasons behind our success?

In my opinion, and I reckon many of you will agree, it came down to having a settled side. A core group of players who’ve played together for over six years, alongside three or four smart additions who slotted in almost instantly.

We don’t have any big-time Charlies or diva energy. No Balotelli, no Zlatan types. Just a cohesive, grounded squad that is riddled with players who captain their respective countries.

We’ve had a lot of welcome movement in the transfer window, and honestly, I’ve got no complaints about the signings so far. Frimpong, Wirtz, Kerkez, and Mamardashvili all feel like the right moves.

But here’s the thing: I’m worried we might be doing too much. I see people calling for us to sell Gomez and Jota, and we’re already letting go of Harvey, Núñez, and Chiesa (I don't mind the two latter). Now there are even strong rumors that Robbo wants out. This is looking less like Slot making tweaks, and more like a full-blown squad overhaul.

I know that I was previously adamant that Gomez wants to leave, or that we should sell Konaté because he might join Real for free, but in all honesty, we should do our utmost to try to keep both of them.

So going back to my original point: if our settled squad was a major factor in last season’s success, shouldn't we be doing everything we can to preserve that core? I get it—if certain players want to leave, there’s only so much we can do. But we definitely shouldn't be the ones showing them the door.

 

[mom]

It’s definitely something that needs to be considered. Having said that, the starting line up will be the same as last year except for three players so far.
Frimpong was essential, and Kerkez was pretty necessary too.
Wirtz was one we needed too as Trent’s creativity has now gone.
So I’d say what we’ve done so far is fine and all things we needed to do.
I’d still expect Alison to be number one next season but even he’s going to want replacing at some point sadly so I can see why they bought a new keeper.
if we start making further changes, then maybe it starts to get too much. Which is why I’m not convinced we will sign a striker.

 

[MomoWASright]

We had core starters. Most of those won’t change. Same GK, CBs, MFs and wide forwards. I even expect Bradley to start the first few games at RB whilst we integrate the newbies. Kerkez and Wirtz will start. Frimpong will be coming on for Bradley or Salah depending on fitness and what we need at that moment of a game.

 

[Modo]

It’s definitely something that needs to be considered. Having said that, the starting line up will be the same as last year except for three players so far.
Frimpong was essential, and Kerkez was pretty necessary too.
Wirtz was one we needed too as Trent’s creativity has now gone.
So I’d say what we’ve done so far is fine and all things we needed to do.
I’d still expect Alison to be number one next season but even he’s going to want replacing at some point sadly so I can see why they bought a new keeper.
if we start making further changes, then maybe it starts to get too much. Which is why I’m not convinced we will sign a striker.

Isn't it four, if we buy a new striker?

 

[Modo]

We had core starters. Most of those won’t change. Same GK, CBs, MFs and wide forwards. I even expect Bradley to start the first few games at RB whilst we integrate the newbies. Kerkez and Wirtz will start. Frimpong will be coming on for Bradley or Salah depending on fitness and what we need at that moment of a game.

Again, the new striker makes it four potentially. Not that I'm complaining. It's completely necessary.

 

[MomoWASright]

I’m certain we aren’t after a superstar striker. It will be alternative to Wirtz.

Florian will be the new Firmino.

 

[Markeh]

i’m not sure how much of this is driven by slot or hughes/edwards, from the players themselves or if a lot of the rumours will actually materialise.

kelleher - player driven
elliott- player driven / slot push
quansah - slot push
robertson - player driven
trent - player driven
chiesa - don’t really care
gomez - possibly hughes push but he also wanted to leave last year
konate - player driven
diaz - player driven
jota - hughes push?

it just feels to me that this isn’t a conscious clear out or rebuild as much as it’s a laundry list of issues with the playing squad that we’re now working our way through.

we could well see next to no business occurring from now on aside from players that want to leave and handling their replacement but yea care needs to be taken here in not dismantling a good thing.

 

[Tinto]

I’m certain we aren’t after a superstar striker. It will be alternative to Wirtz.

Florian will be the new Firmino.

Yep, Diaz and Jota didn’t play as a traditional number 9 when they played up top last season. They were deeper than Mo more often than not.

Mo is our superstar striker currently but he just starts from the right.

 

[Fabio]

Let's be honest, our team won the league as our system was stable and mo Salah decided he wanted to drag us to a title.

There is a need to gut a lot of players (a lot of us) agree aren't good enough to start. If they're not good enough to start, why should we accept them as rotational?

Our spine wasnt great really was it? Ali, VVD and gravy, all great. Szob and Nunez? Nahhhh. We had such little creativity outside of mo and Trent, and one of them has now gone.

I agree we're doing a lots, but is it too much? Why do it piecemeal. We're setting ourselves up to be a force for the next 5-10 years by bringing in young, proven, hungry talent. This way, we're planning for the post Salah world with wirtz and Frimpong. Theres no other winger in world football who can do that job, so we're prepping the system to adapt for his loss. Id imagine next summer (maybe this one), we'll prepare for a post vvd world.


We're doing exactly what I've wanted for years and future proofing ourselves, while getting rid of sellable assets for a decent fee. Are we so used to letting players go for free, that's how we should operate forever?

We're striking while other teams are also in transition, to hopefully make ourselves THE dominant force. PSG monopolised on this this year in the CL.

 

[Fabio]

I'm sure if Trent didn't go, we wouldn't have gone for wirtz, and probably gone all in on Isak. Because he went, we needed to find a new creative force. Robbo needed replacing so kerkez is THE left back that was available. We always needed a 9.

Trent going forced the issue for change a bit more than I'm sure we would have liked, but for once the club is moving in ways that are actively trying to fix an issue, rather than making do or ignoring it.

 

[Modo]

I’m certain we aren’t after a superstar striker. It will be alternative to Wirtz.

Florian will be the new Firmino.

Not sure, cause why are we so interested in Isak in that case?

 

[StevieM]

I agree - with a few caveats.

So far, only Trent & Kelleher have gone - I’m pretty sure we asked Irish Kev to stay another year and we’d let him go without fussing over the fee.

I expect Bradley, if he’s fit to start as RB next season - for however long it takes Frimpong to get up to speed.

Robbo hasn’t made a decision on leaving yet, so I could see him as starting LB.

All depends on how quickly Kerkez & Frimpong adapt.

The only real absolute certain new started is Wirtz - and we’re not quite sure where he’s playing.

Gomez doesn’t appear to want to go, neither does Tsimikas and it remains to be seen if anyone will meet our valuation of Harvey.

Been very quiet on the Endo front and while Quansah looks like he’s off, his replacement isn’t going to be a guaranteed starter.

Diaz looks like he’s staying and there’s been nothing on Jota.

The fact nkynither be likely to leave is Darwin - who isn’t a regular starter and, for all we know, is getting replaced by Wirtz (or Diaz).

I agree that a tight squad is what wins leagues, but we also saw last year that we weren’t far away from seriously competing for a CL too, if only we could rotate a little more.

Say we do sell Quansah and sign, let’s say for argument, Guehi - that’s an upgrade and someone who Slot would likely trust more to play in more games.

The forward is the strange one, as weirdly, I’m not sure the available options are that much of an upgrade - other than the ones that will cost north of £120m.

The only way this works is if it’s the bench players we’re replacing and upgrading.

It won’t matter if the likes of Chiesa, Badger, Morton and Doak are sold - they’re superfluous anyway.

The minute we start selling Konate, Robbo, Diaz, Darwin, Jota, Gomez, Quansah & Elliot all in one window… that’s when you say good bye to retaining the Premier League - which is why we won’t do it.

 

[Fabio]

I still don't see how we're paying 100ms to then play wirtz in an unfamiliar positions or entirely change our setup. Easiest answer is usually right, and that is szob is dropped. Szob talking how "we could both play" is him posturing as he knows he's becoming rotational

 

[StevieM]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we make a move for Xavi Simons as a “Chiesa replacement” - he can cover the 2 wide positions and a central attacking position

 

[Fabio]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we make a move for Xavi Simons as a “Chiesa replacement” - he can cover the 2 wide positions and a central attacking position

I don't think we need it. LW - Diaz gakpo, AM- wirtz, szob. RW we need the depth, but not for Simon's cost.

 

[Modo]

Let's be honest, our team won the league as our system was stable and mo Salah decided he wanted to drag us to a title.

There is a need to gut a lot of players (a lot of us) agree aren't good enough to start. If they're not good enough to start, why should we accept them as rotational?

Our spine wasnt great really was it? Ali, VVD and gravy, all great. Szob and Nunez? Nahhhh. We had such little creativity outside of mo and Trent, and one of them has now gone.

I agree we're doing a lots, but is it too much? Why do it piecemeal. We're setting ourselves up to be a force for the next 5-10 years by bringing in young, proven, hungry talent. This way, we're planning for the post Salah world with wirtz and Frimpong. Theres no other winger in world football who can do that job, so we're prepping the system to adapt for his loss. Id imagine next summer (maybe this one), we'll prepare for a post vvd world.


We're doing exactly what I've wanted for years and future proofing ourselves, while getting rid of sellable assets for a decent fee. Are we so used to letting players go for free, that's how we should operate forever?

We're striking while other teams are also in transition, to hopefully make ourselves THE dominant force. PSG monopolised on this this year in the CL.

Like I said, there's definitely been some necessary changes. The two fullbacks mainly. We've also injected some much needed creativity in midfield/Attack with the addition of Wirtz.

One thing to keep in mind is that there's also personal relationships between the players that needs to be considered. Gomez and Van Dijk are very close. Same with Jota and Ali.
Yeah if the players want to leave then that's a different story. Integrating 3-4 players into the starting line up is a big task and Slot has got his work cut out for him this pre-season.

 

[Fabio]

Like I said, there's definitely been some necessary changes. The two fullbacks mainly. We've also injected some much needed creativity in midfield/Attack with the addition of Wirtz.

One thing to keep in mind is that there's also personal relationships between the players that needs to be considered. Gomez and Van Dijk are very close. Same with Jota and Ali.
Yeah if the players want to leave then that's a different story. Integrating 3-4 players into the starting line up is a big task and Slot has got his work cut out for him this pre-season.

Thats the only concern I have over the player churn; friendships and mood in the dressing room. I mentioned Robbo going is a bit issue, but it seems Frimpong is that replacement. Everyone else seems to be really strongly connected. Weirdly Jones and the south American lads is one. Frimpong is mates with flo, and he's mates with the Dutch lads. So far the only worry is who'll be mates with kerkez, but someone will be, because we've not got any dickheads

 

[StevieM]

I still don't see how we're paying 100ms to then play wirtz in an unfamiliar positions or entirely change our setup. Easiest answer is usually right, and that is szob is dropped. Szob talking how "we could both play" is him posturing as he knows he's becoming rotational

But Wirtz normal position is primarily central - he drifts out to the left - so, it would be more likely he’s operating in a type of Diaz/Gakpo position.

I think, if anything it’ll be more likely he’s operating that double false 9 setup we saw against City, with Dom as the other false 9 dropping deep, Diaz/Gakpo and Salah drifting in from wide and Kerkez & Frimpong/Bradley providing width.

But it really is impossible to know until we start to see how Slot lines them up / he’s obviously got a clear plan - we just don’t know it.

 

[Fabio]

But Wirtz normal position is primarily central - he drifts out to the left - so, it would be more likely he’s operating in a type of Diaz/Gakpo position.

I think, if anything it’ll be more likely he’s operating that double false 9 setup we saw against City, with Dom as the other false 9 dropping deep, Diaz/Gakpo and Salah drifting in from wide and Kerkez & Frimpong/Bradley providing width.

But it really is impossible to know until we start to see how Slot lines them up / he’s obviously got a clear plan - we just don’t know it.

Primarily but I think he'll be given license to patrol that area and exploit the half space between the lines. I think it'll be more Macca and gravy double pivot. Szob as rotational for wirtz and Macca.

You're right, we don't know and won't until the season starts, as pre season still might be experimentation. I just don't see the point in clipping wirtz' wings.

 

[keniget]

Klopp and co let the team grow old and stale and thankfully the Saudi money bailed us out otherwise we’d have likely been further behind in the rebuild and probably kept Fabinho.

Some of the work was done for Slot but clearly this was a squad that would need time to transition. The league title was unexpected and amazing but in part down to circumstance. I remember - and maybe others do as well - watching the team for first couple months and not being able to work out whether we’re actually good or not. The wins kept coming though.

Slot came with a reputation of being ruthless and happy to rip up the squad. Guess it’s warranted. And the surgery to the team is warranted too.

It’ll be interesting to see how Slot manages it.

 

[jexykrodic]

Yeah after winning the title and signing £100 million pound players I'm still worried things aren't going as well as they might. Too much, too little who can say?

And I'm not really sure that the backroom staff and the team coaching staff have the judgment required. Much better to worry and fret about a situation in which I have absolutely no input.

I'd like to enjoy the current circumstances but I'm afraid I just can't.

 

[Frogfish]

Let's be honest, our team won the league as our system was stable and mo Salah decided he wanted to drag us to a title.

There is a need to gut a lot of players (a lot of us) agree aren't good enough to start. If they're not good enough to start, why should we accept them as rotational?

Our spine wasnt great really was it? Ali, VVD and gravy, all great. Szob and Nunez? Nahhhh. We had such little creativity outside of mo and Trent, and one of them has now gone.

I agree we're doing a lots, but is it too much? Why do it piecemeal. We're setting ourselves up to be a force for the next 5-10 years by bringing in young, proven, hungry talent. This way, we're planning for the post Salah world with wirtz and Frimpong. Theres no other winger in world football who can do that job, so we're prepping the system to adapt for his loss. Id imagine next summer (maybe this one), we'll prepare for a post vvd world.


We're doing exactly what I've wanted for years and future proofing ourselves, while getting rid of sellable assets for a decent fee. Are we so used to letting players go for free, that's how we should operate forever?

We're striking while other teams are also in transition, to hopefully make ourselves THE dominant force. PSG monopolised on this this year in the CL.

Perfect. Exactly what I had in mind to say.

I'll also add that as Fabio stated - a lot of the players we are selling are either not good enough or are past their sell by date and ignoring emotions we need to be ruthless to stay at the top.

None of these affect our first team options for 2025/6 (and are being replaced by better players) and their value as squad players is hindered in one way or another :
Kelleher, Elliott, Robertson, Chiesa, Jota, Morton, Nunez (I actually think that with Wirtz and FBs that actually have the pace to overlap and get to the byline to cross he'd be a better version in 2025/6, but his time is done).

Trent - no option but then I prefer Bradley anyway (better balance between defence and attack) and possibly Frimpong may be even better suited to our style of play. Either way it's not a downgrade for me, Trent 2023-2025 was a different animal, superb at times but equally wasteful and a defensive liability.

Quansah for Guehi ? I'd be disappointed to see Q leave, I had high hopes, however as it stands Guehi is by far the better player so it strengthens us and gives us better defensive options (especially if we ever have a fit Gomez).

I can't see Gomez, Diaz or Konate leaving this Summer - a very good thing for our PL and CL chances.

I do hope we see 2, 3 or even 4 more additions to strengthen the forward line (CF) and the bench (CB, RW). I would love to see what Danns can do if/when he overcomes his injury woes (very worrying).

So in effect all we're doing is strengthening the first team in positions we were weakest in last season.

 

[Frogfish]

Not sure, cause why are we so interested in Isak in that case?

Well the MEDIA is interested in an Isak to LFC transfer 😉

 

[Frogfish]

Robbo hasn’t made a decision on leaving yet, so I could see him as starting LB.

Not a chance. We didn't pay £40m for Kerkez to put him on the bench.

 

[peterhague]

It's a bit of a concern but ultimately no matter how gutting it would be to not retain the title the long term health of the squad has to be the priority.

I wouldn't be turning down good money for Gomez or letting Konate leave for nothing just to have a more settled team for one season.

But it is a lesson we need to learn. We shouldn't have let so many issues develop at the same time. Same thing happened with the midfield a couple of years ago.

 

[Markeh]

Not a chance. We didn't pay £40m for Kerkez to put him on the bench.

i don’t think it’s a ridiculous notion to see robbo looking fantastic in preseason and starting the charity shield or first league games. being the senior player and such that’s probably the fair/best approach.

 

[Frogfish]

I wouldn't be turning down good money for Gomez or letting Konate leave for nothing just to have a more settled team for one season.

I absolutely would. We've already gone a long way this Summer to ensure long term strength / competitiveness, what I want to see now is us wringing the absolute last drops out of the Salah and VvD era before their days are done (I can't see either happy to sit on a bench a la Miller).

Keeping Gomez and Konate could take us a long way this coming season towards a PL + CL double (CL always a gamble - see the RM final) but with both of them we could/should be looking at back to back PL titles if not a domestic triple. Worth every penny of lost income from sales.

 

[Frogfish]

i don’t think it’s a ridiculous notion to see robbo looking fantastic in preseason and starting the charity shield or first league games. being the senior player and such that’s probably the fair/best approach.

Maybe Charity Shield as a reward. But he's not suddenly going to become a Spring Chicken and rediscover his form of 2-3 years ago. Age has got the better of him. I don't think he'll be here anyway so it's a little bit of a moot discussion (or will be in hindsight).

 

[Frogfish]

Thats the only concern I have over the player churn; friendships and mood in the dressing room. I mentioned Robbo going is a bit issue, but it seems Frimpong is that replacement. Everyone else seems to be really strongly connected. Weirdly Jones and the south American lads is one. Frimpong is mates with flo, and he's mates with the Dutch lads. So far the only worry is who'll be mates with kerkez, but someone will be, because we've not got any dickheads

Szobo is looking down his nose at you.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

It's definitely looking like a medium to long term strategy, rather than one that will give us the best chance of winning a title next year. I'd rather we kept Diaz and Konate for that reason, and do this a little slower, but ultimately the longer term is more important.