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Post Match EPL Dyche’s Forest (H) 0-3 22nd Nov 15:00

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King Binny said:

View: https://x.com/SamMcGuire90/status/1992326787343298658

View: https://x.com/SamMcGuire90/status/1992312398615904266

View: https://x.com/lfcsavvy/status/1992317261064081567
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View: https://x.com/Lfc_samie/status/1992530889604202678
 
Beamrider said:
I was thinking about this. Then last night I watched the new documentary about Kenny. It's worth a watch, but it rightly carries a trigger warning because of the sections on Heysel and Hillsborough - it's not gratuitous, but there's enough in there to remind you about the trauma on both days.
That 88-89 team was playing football whilst fans were dying behind the goal. They went to dozens of funerals, Kenny carried the brunt of comforting grieving fans, visiting hospitals, dealing with the bullshit from the FA pressuring the team to get back playing.
They barely had time to train, then a punishing schedule to finish the season, winning the FA cup (despite declining fitness and fatigue) and losing a title they deserved to win with the last kick of the game.
Now admittedly, as far as I know, none of them lost one of their best mates in the disaster (although Marina Dalglish does a very good job explaining the trauma she went through waiting to hear if Paul was OK).
I doubt they had access to sports psychologists, grief counsellors, personal trainers, dieticians, personal chefs and all that.
They didn't want to play on. But they did.
And it occurred to me that if they could deal with that, then this current crop of players can deal with losing Diogo.
Sure, it won't have been easy, and it'll definitely be a factor in our current struggles, but we can't allow it to be an excuse.
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I don't fully understand this, possibly a lack of knowledge or fuzzy memory on my part.

Firstly, this isn't a reply to try and counter the point and use Jota's passing as an excuse for our current situation, I'm just trying to follow your logic.

We didn't exactly just get on with it after Hillsborough did we? It broke Kenny and in my opinion it affected us for many many years.

Am I wrong, or misunderstanding your point?
 
Mamma Mia said:
I don't fully understand this, possibly a lack of knowledge or fuzzy memory on my part.

Firstly, this isn't a reply to try and counter the point and use Jota's passing as an excuse for our current situation, I'm just trying to follow your logic.

We didn't exactly just get on with it after Hillsborough did we? It broke Kenny and in my opinion it affected us for many many years.

Am I wrong, or misunderstanding your point?
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We did get on with it (under protest). We had a three-week break, during which time we barely trained and supported the grieving families, then played 8 games in 23 days to end the season. All the while, Kenny was breaking, the city as a whole was in mourning and the stadium basically became a shrine.

And yet, of those 8 we drew the first one (against Everton) and then won them all until the Arsenal game - Arsenal were fresh physically and we were on our knees. we’d had 5 days to recover from the cup final, but we’d played extra time on the back of a punishing league campaign.

I’m not saying Hillsborough didn’t affect us, short or long term, of course it did. It still does (although most of our current squad don’t have the ties to it that many of us fans do). My point is not that the players carried on like it was no big deal, but they carried on despite it being a big deal. I’m saying the players and manager got on with it when they had every excuse to not be arsed. They didn’t have the same support network these players have now. Of course losing Diogo has affected them, but it’s lazy to blame that for the current shit show.
 
Beamrider said:
We did get on with it (under protest). We had a three-week break, during which time we barely trained and supported the grieving families, then played 8 games in 23 days to end the season. All the while, Kenny was breaking, the city as a whole was in mourning and the stadium basically became a shrine.

And yet, of those 8 we drew the first one (against Everton) and then won them all until the Arsenal game - Arsenal were fresh physically and we were on our knees. we’d had 5 days to recover from the cup final, but we’d played extra time on the back of a punishing league campaign.

I’m not saying Hillsborough didn’t affect us, short or long term, of course it did. It still does (although most of our current squad don’t have the ties to it that many of us fans do). My point is not that the players carried on like it was no big deal, but they carried on despite it being a big deal. I’m saying the players and manager got on with it when they had every excuse to not be arsed. They didn’t have the same support network these players have now. Of course losing Diogo has affected them, but it’s lazy to blame that for the current shit show.
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I mean Kenny did have a mental breakdown following this, probably for bottling it all up. But I get your point.
 
Beamrider said:
We did get on with it (under protest). We had a three-week break, during which time we barely trained and supported the grieving families, then played 8 games in 23 days to end the season. All the while, Kenny was breaking, the city as a whole was in mourning and the stadium basically became a shrine.

And yet, of those 8 we drew the first one (against Everton) and then won them all until the Arsenal game - Arsenal were fresh physically and we were on our knees. we’d had 5 days to recover from the cup final, but we’d played extra time on the back of a punishing league campaign.

I’m not saying Hillsborough didn’t affect us, short or long term, of course it did. It still does (although most of our current squad don’t have the ties to it that many of us fans do). My point is not that the players carried on like it was no big deal, but they carried on despite it being a big deal. I’m saying the players and manager got on with it when they had every excuse to not be arsed. They didn’t have the same support network these players have now. Of course losing Diogo has affected them, but it’s lazy to blame that for the current shit show.
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Thanks, I get ya now. I'm not sure how much people can just decide to not be affected, but I understand what you're saying.

For what it's worth, I don't think the Jota effect is a significant factor in our current performances and results.
 
There's no doubt that the passing of Jota will have an effect. It can't not. But it's not as if we were flying, swatting away all before us while he was still alive.

The way we have been playing has been getting steadily worse since February. The patterns of play are the same, the downturn in energy and pressure is an ongoing trend, the dodgy defending is consistent with last year.

Even at the start of the season, when we were picking up results, it seemed to be by virtue of sheer determination, luck and grit rather than tactics and good management. That showed to me that the players were committed mentally still, even when the tactics were failing them.

Yeah, losing a teammate in those circumstances will be absolutely grim and may have an effect here and there. But it's not the reason for our plight this season.
 
The thing that really stands out to me lately is how fucking predictable our patterns of play are.

Hugo, Chiesa, and Rio are not ready to be first choice starters in the PL for us imo, but at least they try something different and show some creativity, and I suspect that's why a lot of us want to see more of them.

It's also why I think we miss Trent more than most like to admit.
 
People are always quick to champion statistics on here. The statistics speak for themselves. I've always been quick to comment that I'd rather go with what I can see with my own eyes, well it doesn't even look good either. Like many have said, the fact we won the league in May on paper at least makes the blip seem shorter, but it simply isn't, I can't remember too many games this calendar year where we look like we have gone out there with intent, belief and a plan. It's definitely a case of hoping that a few individual players do something brilliant and then we will try to shut up shop.

In the last year or two with Klopp it was so frustrating knowing that teams would just need to punt the ball over the top to beat our high line, or smash the ball into space down either flank, knowing that we would crumble, it's become even worse under Slot. I can't believe in 18 months it's something he's completely failed to address. We used to boss setpieces, now we pick our smallest player and ask them to mark the opposition's biggest player. It's all basic, fundamentally bad shit.

He's a bad manager, out of his depth and he has to go. We're not going to get in the CL if we keep on hoping the next game is us turning a corner. We thought that with Madrid, and then turned into a bunch of fucking retards again days later.
 
mark1975 said:
People are always quick to champion statistics on here. The statistics speak for themselves. I've always been quick to comment that I'd rather go with what I can see with my own eyes, well it doesn't even look good either. Like many have said, the fact we won the league in May on paper at least makes the blip seem shorter, but it simply isn't, I can't remember too many games this calendar year where we look like we have gone out there with intent, belief and a plan. It's definitely a case of hoping that a few individual players do something brilliant and then we will try to shut up shop.

In the last year or two with Klopp it was so frustrating knowing that teams would just need to punt the ball over the top to beat our high line, or smash the ball into space down either flank, knowing that we would crumble, it's become even worse under Slot. I can't believe in 18 months it's something he's completely failed to address. We used to boss setpieces, now we pick our smallest player and ask them to mark the opposition's biggest player. It's all basic, fundamentally bad shit.

He's a bad manager, out of his depth and he has to go. We're not going to get in the CL if we keep on hoping the next game is us turning a corner. We thought that with Madrid, and then turned into a bunch of fucking retards again days later.
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Amid Liverpool’s deepening crisis and the growing scrutiny on Arne Slot, it is only right that Nottingham Forest’s role in it is given some attention and acclaim. Back-to-back league wins at Anfield for the first time since 1963 deserves recognition, as does the willingness of Forest’s players to embrace the gameplan of the third different managerial voice they have heard this season. Sean Dyche’s instructions were implemented to perfection as Liverpool disintegrated. “We changed the tactical side today,” said Forest’s recently appointed manager. “I told the players: ‘We’re not passing it, we are going long, because Liverpool were going to press the life out of you’ – which is exactly what they did at the start. We dealt with that quite well and we mixed it tactically, which is credit to the players.” Forest’s tactics may have been straight out of the Dyche playbook but they were also encouraged, inadvertently, by Slot, who has regularly told opponents how to play his Liverpool team this season. He has meanwhile not found any solutions.
 
Modo said:
This definitely looks like the face of someone who believes in whatever Slot has brought:


View: https://x.com/Livin_Liverpool/status/1992265995558568300?s=20
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I thought his laugh and bemused look was a disgrace to be honest, he's been fucking awful all season and shouldn't even be playing, so to show that kind of arrogance at eventually being hooked... no wonder the soft cunt thinks he's good enough to play for Madrid. He's deluded and a lazy waste of space.
 
mark1975 said:
I thought his laugh and bemused look was a disgrace to be honest, he's been fucking awful all season and shouldn't even be playing, so to show that kind of arrogance at eventually being hooked... no wonder the soft cunt thinks he's good enough to play for Madrid. He's deluded and a lazy waste of space.
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I totally agree, but then again, why is Slot rewarding his bad form by continuing to play him. Get Gomez in there.
I mean, he was fit enough to sacrifice him with the kids in the cup, so...
 
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