And an object lesson, one of the clearest illustrations I can remember, of the importance of not writing a player off too early.
Fabinho
- Thread starter King Binny
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So has C3PO.
Andy Robertson falls into that category too - Firmino & Matip arguably also.
Matip definitely. I did not rate him for a long time and feel that it was a fair judgment. But since getting back into the side he has been immense.
Firmino defo was written off too early but I feel he had a poor 1st season.
Matip I thought was excellent for first 6 months until the whole issue with Cameroon saga, had dodgy 2nd season.....but this season and last 6 months of last he's been excellent.
Robbo was playing 2nd fiddle for Moreno for first few months after we signed him, but when he got his chance he's never been dropped....he's been consistently brilliant every game he's played
Matip I thought was excellent for first 6 months until the whole issue with Cameroon saga, had dodgy 2nd season.....but this season and last 6 months of last he's been excellent.
Robbo was playing 2nd fiddle for Moreno for first few months after we signed him, but when he got his chance he's never been dropped....he's been consistently brilliant every game he's played
Bobby's first season was ruined by Rodgers not playing him in his right position on the few occasions he played him at all. The wheels were steadily coming off the Rodgers regime by then and Bobby was one of the casualties.
To be fair, Rodgers was sacked at the start of October in Bobby’s first season and he wouldn’t have had s full pre-season as he was playing in the Copa America.
Rodgers didn’t know what to do with him - but Klopp wasn’t really in a position to do much with him either - what with Benteke, Ings & Sturridge all wanting to play upfront - and useless either deep or out wide.
Fabinho's aggression is not just defensive and destructive, but in the way he moves and passes forward.
He's not perfect - there are more nimble DM stereotypes, and he can get left standing by quick changes of direction (Virgil rescued him from one of these situations against Newcastle, when he was easily danced past) - but he's performing at a very high level at the moment, and that aggression in and out of possession is what sets him apart from other DMs/ holding midfielders in the league, who are often more conservative.
They all conform to the standard, basic requirements:
1) Show for the ball (often from the CBs)
2) Break up attacks/ win the ball
But while most then think "job done", turn to face their own goal and pass sideways or backwards until the next intervention, Fabinho - especially after winning the ball - keeps that aggressive mindset and wants to hurt the opposition with his passing and movement, and usually pivots away from our goal, and wants to get forward.
Also, he does like a tackle now and then. I like that.
He's not perfect - there are more nimble DM stereotypes, and he can get left standing by quick changes of direction (Virgil rescued him from one of these situations against Newcastle, when he was easily danced past) - but he's performing at a very high level at the moment, and that aggression in and out of possession is what sets him apart from other DMs/ holding midfielders in the league, who are often more conservative.
They all conform to the standard, basic requirements:
1) Show for the ball (often from the CBs)
2) Break up attacks/ win the ball
But while most then think "job done", turn to face their own goal and pass sideways or backwards until the next intervention, Fabinho - especially after winning the ball - keeps that aggressive mindset and wants to hurt the opposition with his passing and movement, and usually pivots away from our goal, and wants to get forward.
Also, he does like a tackle now and then. I like that.
Yes, and this was what created the early worries about him as he was finding his feet. He seemed to do something– make a tackle, a block, or a pass, and then he'd kind of stand back on his heels as if he was admiring what he'd just done. He now realises in the harem scarem world of the Premier League you don't get a moment to pat yourself on the back. He's now constantly patrolling, looking for more and more work to do. He really is looking magnificent.
Great assessment, yes he is liable the odd time to get left behind by players with good acceleration and good footwork, he tends to compensate for this with his telescopic legs though.
He is actually quite fast I reckon, just not that agile, so can be left rooted by a drop of the shoulder
[article]In praising the way Fabinho breaks up play and carries the ball up the field, Neville told Sky Sports: “You talk about England, World Cups and European Championships, Premier League, Fabinho is absolutely sensational on the ball, [Sergio] Busquets is unbelievable on the ball.
“I think Fabinho at the moment is the best. Because what Fabinho does actually, he doesn’t sit back in games. These holding midfield players who just play horizontally, passing sideways, shuttling across, but Fabinho plays vertically as well.
“He goes forward with his passes, he moves forward and steps in and wins the ball back. I think the best holding midfield players aren’t just people who basically shuffle across and make it look simple, they also step into the game.
“It’s the ability of knowing where you are with your back to play. I played the odd game in midfield and it was awful, even when I was full-back and I ended up in midfield just out of position sometimes and someone plays a pass into you, you think, “Oh, what’s behind me?”
“The great players they know what’s over their shoulder, they receive it on the half turn, they take the ball to the right side when there’s a player coming from the other side.”
One man who could learn plenty from Fabinho’s displays are West Ham star Rice, with Neville admitting that he doubts whether suitors Manchester United paying £80m+ for the England man would be shrewd.
However, he believes Rice and another upcoming holding midfielder in McTominay can learn a great deal by studying Fabinho in action.
‘They’ve got that ability to do it,” he added. “I think there’s another player at Manchester United, Scott McTominay, who’s having that similar type of journey.
“These two players are doing absolutely brilliantly, they’re great lads, you can just tell their great lads, but then you talk about measuring them against the great midfield players.
“Once you’re at that level, when you’re playing for Man United or England [in Rice’s case], it’s not harsh to judge them at that level with their contemporaries. Which is Fabinho, it is the best players in Europe, like Busquets.
“They’ve got a lot of development to do, but I think they’re on track. So there’s no sort of criticism here, it’s whether they get their next jump up which is the ability to receive the ball in tight situations, on the half turn, in the biggest matches, under the biggest pressure, against the best players.”[/article]
“I think Fabinho at the moment is the best. Because what Fabinho does actually, he doesn’t sit back in games. These holding midfield players who just play horizontally, passing sideways, shuttling across, but Fabinho plays vertically as well.
“He goes forward with his passes, he moves forward and steps in and wins the ball back. I think the best holding midfield players aren’t just people who basically shuffle across and make it look simple, they also step into the game.
“It’s the ability of knowing where you are with your back to play. I played the odd game in midfield and it was awful, even when I was full-back and I ended up in midfield just out of position sometimes and someone plays a pass into you, you think, “Oh, what’s behind me?”
“The great players they know what’s over their shoulder, they receive it on the half turn, they take the ball to the right side when there’s a player coming from the other side.”
One man who could learn plenty from Fabinho’s displays are West Ham star Rice, with Neville admitting that he doubts whether suitors Manchester United paying £80m+ for the England man would be shrewd.
However, he believes Rice and another upcoming holding midfielder in McTominay can learn a great deal by studying Fabinho in action.
‘They’ve got that ability to do it,” he added. “I think there’s another player at Manchester United, Scott McTominay, who’s having that similar type of journey.
“These two players are doing absolutely brilliantly, they’re great lads, you can just tell their great lads, but then you talk about measuring them against the great midfield players.
“Once you’re at that level, when you’re playing for Man United or England [in Rice’s case], it’s not harsh to judge them at that level with their contemporaries. Which is Fabinho, it is the best players in Europe, like Busquets.
“They’ve got a lot of development to do, but I think they’re on track. So there’s no sort of criticism here, it’s whether they get their next jump up which is the ability to receive the ball in tight situations, on the half turn, in the biggest matches, under the biggest pressure, against the best players.”[/article]
Good summary by Quasi there. Klopp always has preferred exactly that kind of DM, one who can and does contribute directly to forward play as well.
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