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Its amazing how little some people are able to project what a player could be in the future. And instead want to see them have the best years of their career first before we sign them. Cos then they can say we're signing proven talent, when in reality we're signing someone just past their peak for stupid money.

cf Keane, Downing.
 
players like hoilett and raheem will completely change the dynamic of the team. we are way to predictable and static and that is how teams can effectively park the bus against up because we are simply able to pull them out of position. I thought kuyt was almost comical out on the wing yesterday, not his fault of course as he simply isn't a winger.
 
Signing Hoillet is a no-brainer. There's every chance he could become a top player but even if he failed at Anfield we would easily be able to sell him for £5m+ next summer thus recouping his wages and making a decent profit also.
 
Rosco said:
Its amazing how little some people are able to project what a player could be in the future. And instead want to see them have the best years of their career first before we sign them. Cos then they can say we're signing proven talent, when in reality we're signing someone just past their peak for stupid money.

cf Keane, Downing.
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Can you project what kind of player Suarez could be in the future? I see a comparable because Hoilett has only 7 goals in the league this season. Playing for a team that has scored more goals than us.
 
Pesam said:
Signing Hoillet is a no-brainer. There's every chance he could become a top player but even if he failed at Anfield we would easily be able to sell him for £5m+ next summer thus recouping his wages and making a decent profit also.
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Oh I'm not saying dont sign him I just dont think he's of the first team material at the moment. We've signed enough players "for the future" I'm sure most would agree. Need a bit of class. Wishful thinking maybe.
 
dmishra said:
Can you project what kind of player Suarez could be in the future?
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At this stage he pretty much is what he's going to be. I think he'll score at a better rate in the league in future simply because looking at the totality of his career it seems to be an abberation. Most of the good work he does amounts to nothing so he'll always look better than he actually is, and will therefore be over valuedv by a, lot of people.

I worry a bit about him physically, he's got good acceleration and agility but not a whole lot of speed. If he loses anything as he gets to his late twenties his game might become even less effective.
 
Rosco said:
At this stage he pretty much is what he's going to be. I think he'll score at a better rate in the league in future simply because looking at the totality of his career it seems to be an abberation. Most of the good work he does amounts to nothing so he'll always look better than he actually is, and will therefore be over valuedv by a, lot of people.

I worry a bit about him physically, he's got good acceleration and agility but not a whole lot of speed. If he loses anything as he gets to his late twenties his game might become even less effective.
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you're being a little unfair, ronaldo was just as head down when he first arrived at manu.
 
Hoilett would be signed with the intention of breaking into the first team. He's cheap and direct, I can't understand the problem, no ones suggesting signing him as a marquee signing. People like to get annoyed at other clubs picking up bargains which turn out great when we don't even try, yet when we spot one people are claiming we're wasting our time. Make your mind up.
 
Rosco said:
At this stage he pretty much is what he's going to be. I think he'll score at a better rate in the league in future simply because looking at the totality of his career it seems to be an abberation. Most of the good work he does amounts to nothing so he'll always look better than he actually is, and will therefore be over valuedv by a, lot of people.

I worry a bit about him physically, he's got good acceleration and agility but not a whole lot of speed. If he loses anything as he gets to his late twenties his game might become even less effective.
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I, of course, disagree. I have said many times that his poor end-product this season is down to the considerable gap in quality with the rest of his team-mates, and as importantly, the way the team is set up. Change both, and I predict a 30-50% increase in Suarez's productivity.

As a related point, in the other thread you made a point about not judging a player through his assists stat. I agree to a large extent. Suarez has only 8 assists this season. That's misleading because he's created easily about twice as many goals. Anyone who's watched us this season will testify that. That being the case, I don't understand your 'all his good work amounts to nothing'. I predict not only an increase in his assists stats but also his actual goal creating productivity (if paired with better players, and the right system).

Also, I'm not particularly concerned about him ageing (unless he suffers a career debilitating injury) because he isn't someone who relies either on pace or acceleration. The physical attributes he relies upon are his upper body strength, and tremendously low centre of gravity, and I think there's a considerably less likelihood of him losing those than his pace/acceleration.

You've also previously argued that we'd be better off if we binned Suarez, and replaced him with a pure goalscorer. That's exactly the sort of thinking that saw us sign Downing (who you argued vehemently against signing), so I can guarantee that if your argument of replacing Suarez with a proper goalscorer ever saw the light of day, it'd have a counter-productive effect.

I'll go a step further and say that I wouldn't have the slightest hesitation in building an attack around Suarez, and I'll give you my reasons:

(i) He’s the right age, has had the right health history (touch wood), and has a fantastic career record till date (I know your counter to this, and I’m happy to admit that this is not fool proof).
(ii) He’s a unique player in one respect – certainly the most unique attacking player we’ve had in my 14 years of supporting the club – in that he has the ability to be both a back-to-the-goal and face-the-goal attacking player. That’s a tremendously rare quality, and it’s down to a few things – he has fairly good size, good upper body strength, an excellent first touch, and a wonderfully low centre of gravity. He’s also a sufficiently aware, intelligent, hardworking and unselfish footballer (and anyone who suggests otherwise is on drugs). That translates into the following:

a. Playing back-to-goal, he’s good as a fulcrum for holding the ball up and bring others into play and/or win a free-kick (just roll back to the start of the season where he played as a striker through the centre – he didn’t fail because of himself but because of the woeful lack of runners behind him).

b. Playing face-to-goal, he’s excellent at getting into pockets, and causing havoc on the turn (because of his touch on the ball, and low centre of gravity)

Which means you can actually pair him with runners behind or alongside him, or use him as one of two or three runners behind a central fulcrum. That also means the kind of goals he’s likely to score are as follows: (i) goals on the turn; (ii) goals from tight angles; (iii) goals from running unmarked into pockets (generally tap-ins or free headers); or (iv) the odd spectacular (just run back his highlight reel for the season, and tell me this isn’t the case). He isn’t one who runs off the defence’s shoulder, and is therefore unlikely to get or score many one-on-one’s (he doesn’t have the pace to be effective at that, or indeed the composure to regularly finish such chances). Neither is he likely to score many from face-the-goal drives from outside the box (like Torres often used to do) because he doesn’t have the explosiveness to regularly create space for a shot.

Unfortunately, the personnel and the system we’ve had this season has highlighted none of his strengths. To get the best out of his qualities, he needs runners (also being quality footballers) behind, and alongside him if he’s playing centrally, and co-runners (also being good footballers) when playing off a central fulcrum like Carroll. Change all that, and I can guarantee you’ll see not just a world class talent, but a world class footballer with end product.
 
Dmish, start some threads will ya mate? I mean they'd be boring as you'd get 20 likes - from people who agree and don't - and everyone would basically, 'no point in responding, you've covered all the bases'.
 
Dmishra, where did you come from? You've bossed the Football forum in 2012!
 
Hoilett isn't really the type of player we need. He's best suited to playing on the counter attack. We need the invention and trickery that Chelsea and Man City have found in Mata and Silva. Hopefully that will be Muniain for us. But Hoilett could be useful for us on the RW. I fear he may be too similar to Downing. Does he have tricks or more just a kick and chase winger.
 
Shelvey said:
He isn't really the type of player we need. He's best suited to playing on the counter attack. We need the invention and trickery that Chelsea and Man City have found in Mata and Silva. Hopefully that will be Muniain for us. But Hoilett could be useful for us on the RW. I fear he may be too similar to Downing. Does he have tricks or more just a kick and chase winger.
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I think he beat his man at Norwich on Saturday more than I've seen Downing do all season..
 
I agree with dmishra but bad decisions are bad decisions and when you get to the by line after a great bit of play and you have two liverpool players waiting in the box for the pull back and you elect to shoot (when you're standing on the mother fucking byline!) that pretty fucking stupid and you have to wonder what the fuck suarez is thinking at that point. but for raw talent, suarez is argubly the best in the squad.
 
Can I just say, for the record, that Muniain lad has not impressed me much.

I know 6CM seem to love him to bits already but to me he's not looking all that. There, I said it.
 
Pesam said:
Signing Hoillet is a no-brainer. There's every chance he could become a top player but even if he failed at Anfield we would easily be able to sell him for £5m+ next summer thus recouping his wages and making a decent profit also.
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Exactly, it's quite similar to when we signed Torres. We had nothing to lose. If he failed in the Premier League we could have sold him back to the La Liga for a similar fee. (But he won't fail as he is already a lot better than we currently have.)

I think he'll link up well with Suarez too because they both possess the most important asset in a footballer - an intelligent football brain. Something only about 3 or 4 players in our squad have and one unfortunately seems to be a permacrock. I like players who lift their heads and pick out a red shirt when they are going to cross or pass, not the crap we've witnessed this season. And El Pistolero, Bayern Munich, who I feel will win the Champions League, are very much after him from what I've heard and they aren't too shabby at spotting a decent winger, as are Arsenal and Spurs.
 
HC said:
I think he beat his man at Norwich on Saturday more than I've seen Downing do all season..
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I do want him, but I also think we need another tricky/inventive player who is better suited to beating the 10 men defenses than I think Hoilett will be.
 
Hoilett's goal on Saturday is something that our wingers are incapable of.
Knock it past a defender and steer the ball towards the top corner from outside the box,I can't remember the last time we had a winger that even tried that.
 
Leo said:
Hoilett's goal on Saturday is something that our wingers are incapable of.
Knock it past a defender and steer the ball towards the top corner from outside the box,I can't remember the last time we had a winger that even tried that.
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downing on the first day of the season?
 
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