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Goodbye, title race (City post-match)

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rurikbird

rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
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Wow. To be honest, I expected a draw or a City win, but the way it happened, with the mistakes by Alisson, of all people, delivering the decisive blow in an otherwise acceptable performance – it felt unexpected, shocking, but also somehow logical. This team knew they didn't have anywhere near enough in the tank to match the resurgent City over the course of the season, yet they also had pride in the knowledge that at our best we're more than a match for City and thus wanted to win the battle, even in the knowledge that we're losing the war. And then something snapped in a place we least expected. It was like watching the Arecibo observatory collapse – you knew one way or another it was going to happen, but at the moment it happened it was still shocking and unexpected.

This is not the time to rip into players or the manager – I think the phrase YNWA was coined exactly for moments like this. Support Alisson, support all the boys and other fans. We need to move on quickly to the battle for the CL spot and we'll need every bit of focus and belief we can muster to get there.
 
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We need to choose 2 out of Phillips, Kabak and Davies for CB and let them play.
Enough with this fucking about in defence with Fabs and Hendo, we need them both in midfield.
True, we hadn't conceded many until today but we need to get some sort of balance back and them two at CB is not going to give us that.
They've done a decent enough job thus far but it hasn't really worked overall so stop persisting with it.
 
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rurikbird said:
Wow. To be honest, I expected a draw or a City win, but the way it happened, with the mistakes by Alisson, of all people, delivering the decisive blow in an otherwise acceptable performance – it felt unexpected, shocking, but also somehow logical. This team knew they didn't have anywhere near enough in the tank to match the resurgent City over the course of the season, yet they also had pride in the knowledge that at our best we're more than a match for City and thus wanted to win the battle, even in the knowledge that we're losing the war. And then something snapped in a place we least expected. It was like watching the Arecibo observatory collapse – you knew one way or another it was going to happen, but at the moment it happened it was still shocking and unexpected.

This is not the time to rip into players or the manager – I think the phrase YNWA was coined exactly for moments like this. Support Alisson, support all the boys and other fans. We need to move on quickly to the battle for the CL spot and we'll need every bit of focus and belief we can muster to get there.
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Great post.

It's winding me up listening to everyone trying to dissect whats wrong with Liverpool this season as if it hasn't been obvious since September / November, this seasons about getting through, and maybe making a good go of the champions league, we were never going to win the league with everything thats happened, and honestly thats fine.
 
It’s clear we’re missing Henderson and Fab in midfield so let’s hope we see at least one of our CB signings in the team against Leicester.
we will turn our fortunes around.
 
Maybe we can take this as an opportunity to restructure and freshen things up. I'm not sure how, but that's why we pay Jurgen the bug bucks.

Lentil lasagna was great btw.
 
Ok - to be honest this result should not have been a shock to anyone unless you started believing that we could get something out of it after we levelled the score at 1-1. To me both Alli, and Fab did not look well enough - and to be honest the work Alli had to do in that game was really work of his making rather than City doing something brilliant- and I think personally the score-line flatters them slightly. But I like what @Bradley has said about freshening things up, although some of the decisions were a bit weird like taking off Curtis, and Thiago - there was no need to do that at that point - thought they were doing well, and the next game is not until next Saturday.

Clearly the priority is to get 4th place, but I cannot help thinking about what Roy Keane said in the post match analysis on Sky, did we ever talk of retaining that title and going again ? - we have had loads of bad performances and despite the defense being built out make-shift midfielders - we have restricted opposition teams to few chances, but our approach play in the final third is just completely fucked up - the pace and constant slowing down to make the pass seems to have left us completely - which I don't understand unless the priority is to just hold onto the ball at all costs and not to attempt any decent passes to the runs that Mane, Salah, or who ever is making. I really don't know what is wrong with us, but I would say use the entire week to blood in our new defenders - just give it a go, and I think we can afford to lose a few points still if necessary to get these guys in.

I cannot see us progressing much in the CL at all this season - mainly because our European performances are relative to our in-house stadium support, and without it we are kinda fucked anyway. So soon we maybe in a position to just focus on our league position anyway.
 
I don't really blame Klopp for the selection. Kabak and Elliott need longer to acclimatise before they're ready to face City.

Phillips was certainly debatable, but he's not strong with the ball and that's dangerous against their press. You need to be able to play out. They also were never going to use long balls. It's all short, intricate passing as pace. You can see why Henderson and Fabinhos athleticism and passing makes sense.

But I concur that we need to get proper CBs playing sooner rather than later.
 
Not sure now is the right moment for analyzing stuff, but I might forget to come here tomorrow to post this, so here are some quick thoughts:

Our playing model is built on a midfield that outruns and outworks anyone – literally anyone – in world football. Do you remember how we went to Munich on the back of a series of games where we struggled for goals and creativity and Klopp simply unleashed the so-called "Brexit midfield" on them (Hendo-Gini-Milner) – by the middle of 2nd half it didn't matter how clinical Lewandowski was or how good of a passer Thiago was, their team was dead, out of gas after trying to match our running and physicality for an hour.

Look at our midfield now – Thiago is not a runner, Jones tries to move around the pitch, but doesn't have an engine comparable to Hendo or younger Milner, and Gini has to stay "home" at #6 so he's not being asked to cover a lot of ground either. The main strength has become a weakness – now even teams like Brighton can waltz through our midfield and we're the ones constantly finding ourselves out of gas. Meanwhile our 2 best and most physical midfielders are playing at CB...

The frustrating thing is that we never seem all that far from finding the correct balance again. A player like Thiago or a player like Jones are the kind of midfielders we've been crying out for some time, they can be (and in some games, have already been) difference-makers. But if you're going to play Thiago, he needs partners that will compensate for his weaknesses, not ones who will exacerbate them. As a result of our failure to sign and bed in new CBs early enough in January (something that was entirely avoidable, it has to be said), we went into the game against City with the most pedestrian, physically weak midfield in recent memory. As a result, the front 3 are now feeling like they have to fight the physical battles that the midfielders have previously fought for them, so their focus shifts from scoring and hurting the opposition to fighting for possession – doing the midfielders' jobs for them. And the full-backs have to stay deeper because they don't trust the protection – we criticize Trent for his form, but did everyone forget how crucial Hendo's ability to cover for him in defensive areas was to his prodigious attacking numbers? And Robbo has now shifted his role to full-time protector and enforcer – I don't think assists or the friendly competition with Trent are even on his mind anymore.

In short, I don't think the problems in defense and front 3 will be fixed until the midfield balance is right. Yes we were stretched thin and had to use the available resources – but in doing so we have lost some of the key things that made this team so difficult to beat in the first place, you could almost say we lost our identity. We need to regain it if we're ever going to stop the rot.
 
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To a degree you've sort of missed the point Rurik with
In short, I don't think the problems in defense and front 3 will be fixed until the midfield balance is right.
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I don't see us fixing the midfield until the defence (with a 'c' 😉 ) is fixed. And as you said we could have fixed that earlier and not been in this situation. Is that on Edwards? Klopp (I don't think so since he's said hes wanted another CB since last Summer) or FSG?

Nearly everyone here agrees that Fabs, Hendo and Thiago is going to be our best midfield going forward.
 
I'll put this in here too (relevant).

It seems to have been forgotten it all went downhill from the substitutions. Thiago and Jones were right on it in controlling the midfield and pushing us forward, we were in the ascendancy at that time and it looked as if we could go on and win it. In the 68th minute Klopp made that double change and although Millie had some involvement (mainly on the left, meaning we had less bodies in the centre) Shaq. was virtually invisible, not involved in defending or in attack.

That's where the game tilted on its head and City took control (scoring just 5 and again 8 mins later, yes from Ali's errors but it's likely he wouldn't have been in those situations with Jones & Thiago on the pitch). It was far and away the worst set of substitutions I've ever seen Klopp make and I still can't reason out why he made them. Strengthen midfield to try and win it? Then put Kabak or Phillips into the back 4 and push Hendo or Fabs into midfield, but taking off two of our most influential players on the pitch ?
 
I'm lost for words to be honest and very sad.
I just hope klopp sorts this daftness and gives the new CB's and chance it we will be out of the top four.

To make things worse vardy is back for Leicester
 
City are and always were a very good side, Were missing the worlds best centre back and Gomez and Matip. Were in a poor run of form partially due to the aforementioned crisis, Jota is missing, Thiago is trying to bed into a side that's firmly in strugglesville, all a win yesterday would've done is paper over the cracks.

This hurts less than a loss has in a while

The Jones call was a weird one, he didn't look like he was struggling and wasn't carrying a yellow was he? We went from engine room to... room in midfield in about 30 seconds of substitutions.

We'll get better, jota is back soon and thankfully not every side is City...
 
Frogfish said:
I'll put this in here too (relevant).

It seems to have been forgotten it all went downhill from the substitutions. Thiago and Jones were right on it in controlling the midfield and pushing us forward, we were in the ascendancy at that time and it looked as if we could go on and win it. In the 68th minute Klopp made that double change and although Millie had some involvement (mainly on the left, meaning we had less bodies in the centre) Shaq. was virtually invisible, not involved in defending or in attack.

That's where the game tilted on its head and City took control (scoring just 5 and again 8 mins later, yes from Ali's errors but it's likely he wouldn't have been in those situations with Jones & Thiago on the pitch). It was far and away the worst set of substitutions I've ever seen Klopp make and I still can't reason out why he made them. Strengthen midfield to try and win it? Then put Kabak or Phillips into the back 4 and push Hendo or Fabs into midfield, but taking off two of our most influential players on the pitch ?
Click to expand...

This the logical sub would have been to take Jones or Thiago off (Jones probably as I thought he slowed the game down in the 1st Half) and replace with Kabak and push Hendo into midfield, to attempt to dominate possession

Bringing Shaq on was a massive cluster fuck.. the midfield lacked pressing as it was.. Shaq.. wont press...
 
Frogfish said:
To a degree you've sort of missed the point Rurik with

I don't see us fixing the midfield until the defence (with a 'c' 😉 ) is fixed. And as you said we could have fixed that earlier and not been in this situation. Is that on Edwards? Klopp (I don't think so since he's said hes wanted another CB since last Summer) or FSG?

Nearly everyone here agrees that Fabs, Hendo and Thiago is going to be our best midfield going forward.
Click to expand...

Of course I know that defensive problems were the main driver for the chopping and changing in midfield. But now the cumulative effect of all those changes means that we are in danger of losing our identity as a pressing team – we went from a crystal-clear idea of how to play and win at football to where even our players seem unsure at what we're good at anymore. In a way, it's a bigger problem than some inexperienced defenders making a couple of individual mistakes, so that's why my suggestion is to go back to the basics in midfield first: get back to being physical, make teams hate playing us again, maybe even change the system to drop one of the front 3 in favor of another midfielder – whatever it takes to dominate in this area again. We're now out of title race, out of all the domestic Cups and the focus is squarely on the top 4 – it's time to regroup and reset and rediscover the joy and exhilaration of physically destroying other teams again.
 
Squiggles said:
I don't really blame Klopp for the selection. Kabak and Elliott need longer to acclimatise before they're ready to face City.

Phillips was certainly debatable, but he's not strong with the ball and that's dangerous against their press. You need to be able to play out. They also were never going to use long balls. It's all short, intricate passing as pace. You can see why Henderson and Fabinhos athleticism and passing makes sense.

But I concur that we need to get proper CBs playing sooner rather than later.
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I've seen one game where that was true about Phillips, the game against Newcastle where he looked nervous in general, since then though he's been very impressive and in his last two games he was pinging great passes all over the place, so I don't really buy that he's not strong with the ball. He's certainly gotten better or more confident as he's got more games. Not to the point where it's just adequate, his passing was as good as that of any of our ball playing centre halves against Spurs and West Ham.
 
I think that, given what the team achieved last year, the amount of brazen disrespect this year, especially in the media, has been contemptible. There's always a degree of schadenfreude when the champions struggle, but the eagerness this season to disregard every factor that's contributed to the decline and just poke Klopp with a stick has been appallingly cynical. I don't buy into any of the speculations concerning being 'found out,' 'losing the dressing roon' or whatever. The defence has been ripped apart, which as a consequence has ripped the midfield apart. It'll be different next year. This year we can either suffer or block the whole thing out. I'm inclined, now, to do the latter. But when we play Everton, we should destroy them for the damage they've done.
 
Totally. And I really hope Pickford plays, but sods law they seem to be playing Olsen at the moment.
 
Mersey86 said:
Same role that Rosco has on here.
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Keane flip flops from one opinion to the next and clearly yesterday was just reveling a bit in our complete capitulation, but he's there to just have a rant and say something controversial, which then feeds the media narrative and so on. Yesterday he jumped on what Pep had said earlier in the day about "excuses", it was a dumb fucking point by Pep and Keane just followed suit.

Rosco thinks there's some brilliance in posing Brendan-esque controversial questions without having the backbone to justify whatever point he's trying to make. It'll be something about managers now only having an impact for a couple of years. At least that's progression from "managers don't matter", eh?
 
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