How do you feel about us going after English/British players?

[Modo]

I'm maybe the wrong person to be asking this question but it somehow feels as if the fact that the players are from "Isles" is overshadowing their ability.

I'm thinking of, Jones, McAdam, McCarthy, Downing, Young, Baines, Dann, A.Johnson, Henderson etc.

Why don't I rate the aforementioned players?

It's because I believe that they're distinctly average. Looking at the U21s playing kinda confirmed it.
Mata is miles better than Downing, Johnson, Henderson, Young etc. and would add some much needed creativity to our attacking play. Just like Silva at Man C.

If we're looking to replace Gerrard or Alonso, there's a solution for that as well and his name is Javi Martinez.

The only English player I rate at the moment other than Wilshare is Cahill. I think he's proven that he's good enough to step up and would definitely improve our starting XI.

Do you believe there any British/English players out there that could improve our starting XI?
I'm thinking available players...

 

[SaintGeorge67]

It's still rather odd how England u21's got slated whereas Spain were wonderful.

They drew.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45785.msg1351433#msg1351433 date=1308407862]
It's still rather odd how England u21's got slated whereas Spain were wonderful.

They drew.
[/quote]

Did you see the game?

Spain outplayed England and should have finished game in the second half.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

No. I saw the result, which is all that matters.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

But back to the subject, the problem is British players are either overpriced, or unfashionable, or both.

At least they're less susceptible to crying and wanting to leave etc though.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Modo link=topic=45785.msg1351436#msg1351436 date=1308407976]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45785.msg1351433#msg1351433 date=1308407862]
It's still rather odd how England u21's got slated whereas Spain were wonderful.

They drew.
[/quote]

Did you see the game?

Spain outplayed England and should have finished game in the second half.
[/quote]

no they didnt... England just defended for 90 minutes... it was a shit game.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45785.msg1351437#msg1351437 date=1308408037]
No. I saw the result, which is all that matters.
[/quote]

True but not to us considering that we're looking to improve our squad.
We witnessed overrated (with regards to their value) English players get outsmarted outwitted and outplayed by players that are better and worth half as much...and that is pretty much the point of this thread.
I hate to say it but it seems that we're buying British for the sake of it.

The only upside I can see with buying domestic players is that they'll probably stay longer and won't pull a "Alonso/Torres/Mascherano" on you.

 

[Molbystwin]

I agree in some respects, the English market is definitely not good value at the moment.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Modo link=topic=45785.msg1351436#msg1351436 date=1308407976]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45785.msg1351433#msg1351433 date=1308407862]
It's still rather odd how England u21's got slated whereas Spain were wonderful.

They drew.
[/quote]

Did you see the game?

Spain outplayed England and should have finished game in the second half.
[/quote]

So in effect because a team plays like Arsenal and gets the results of Arsenal - ie no trophies for 6 years they are better? Bollocks.

The issue with foreign players is that when they come to the Prem, there is usually an adjustment period and also the very likelihood that they will want to return of try their hand elsewhere. Ergo, we sign some great talent from the continent, we make him a star and RM or Barca come knocking.

Whereas with English players, the likes of RM and Barca don't tend to either rate them or the players rarely go there. Yes there are some examples but when who was the last English player who, at the top of his game joined a top European club?

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=45785.msg1351446#msg1351446 date=1308408395]
I agree in some respects, the English market is definitely not good value at the moment.
[/quote]

Yeah, we already have young English up and comers in the squad. The likes of Shelvey, Kelly, Flanagan, Robinson, Wisdom, Coady etc. All internationals at youth level.

Give them a year or two and they'll be in or close to the starting XI.

Barca gradually replaced their foreign players with domestic players in many cases Catalans.

I think we should adopt the same method. Obviously the foreign players will leave some time in the future. I say buy the likes of Mata, Martinez etc for the short run and sell them when the youth players are ready to take over.

 

[Molbystwin]

The fact that Villa are in for Adam and Stoke in for Dann makes me hope that we can now stop fannying around shopping at Lidl and move up to better market abroad.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=45785.msg1351451#msg1351451 date=1308408855]
The fact that Villa are in for Adam and Stoke in for Dann makes me hope that we can now stop fannying around shopping at Lidl and move up to better market abroad.
[/quote]

You've got Lidl in England? Or are you Danish?

 

[Molbystwin]

Yeh we have Lidl.... i live in Spain though where there is a place, no not a place, more of a "thing" called Mercadona.... it truly is a desperate hole....it makes Lidl look like Harrods, i would prefer to shop in Royston Vasey.

 

[Avmenon]

This issue of British vs foreign players has been something we've failed to address well at all; a large part of that is because our strongest teams hve always been very strongly British, which is fine provided you consistently discover the talent.

Talent is something we've been rubbish at for a long time so we're reduced to buying the best British players we can get at huge sums, in fact we've done so badly in this regard that we are now paying top cash merely top British potential. We should be able to scout the best players, that's all.

To source out the best British players that can live up to their exorbitant cost, and to source out the best foreign talent who're stable enough to be abe to make Liverpool their new home. This idea of 'buying proven British talent who won't pull an Alonso/Mascherano' doesnt wash with regards to Robbie Keane.


As does the idea of 'not buying foreign talent as they won't settle' with regards Horseface and El fucking Cuntarito and a whole load of others.We need to get the best players who're right for us and thei passport really has very little significance.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Robbie Keane isn't British though.

 

[Avmenon]

true

 

[RolandG]

I understand the need for a British spine to the team that gives us that steel mentality. However, I always value talent over nationality. We should go for the best players and if they happen to be foreign then so be it.

 

[moron]

Hi All

I think its a good question - and there are a number of ways to look at the issue,

1) Judging a player on how well he does at international level is no barometer to judge him on how he will play for his club, I don't think either Messi, or even Steven Gerrard have played as well for their national teams as they have done for their clubs.

2) At international level they play with a differnet set of players and different tactics under a different coach - so that will kind of change the regular performance of a player.

3) Yes - I think English players are over-priced but are they really ? - I mean there have been inter-league tranfers in other top leagues where the price has been a lot more expensive than the recent 20Million we played recently for a player of a higher quality. I think if you look at Spain, Italy - the transfers within teams of that league are at the same prices as they are here on average. You probably won't get that sort of thing in places like France due to the fact that good players in that league will get bought buy big clubs in Spain and Italy.

4) I think there is an element of people watching the foreign leagues and hearing about the great 'Carlol-Kickball' abroad and wished that they played for their team without taking into consideration if they can adopt to the PL, or fit in culturally in this country.

Ultimately - it will all depend on how the manager best uses the player no matter where he is from.

 

[Hansern]

Modo, not to be a dick. But have you actually considered its because the British transfer window is open? While the rest of Europe are on holiday for two more weeks.

And, we're doing most of our business behind closed doors. I e lucas and Zapata. I dont think Comolli or Kenny have a preferance due to nationality..

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=45785.msg1351555#msg1351555 date=1308423365]
Modo, not to be a dick. But have you actually considered its because the British transfer window is open? While the rest of Europe are on holiday for two more weeks.

And, we're doing most of our business behind closed doors. I e lucas and Zapata. I dont think Comolli or Kenny have a preferance due to nationality..
[/quote]

Maybe so. I hope you're right. God, I hope you're right...
They might not have a preference and that's all well and good but we shouldn't even be linked with the likes of Downing and McAdam. I'd rather it be completely quiet on this front.
But it's not only the press, even the "insiders" on this site are linking us with British players.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=moron link=topic=45785.msg1351554#msg1351554 date=1308423132]
Hi All

I think its a good question - and there are a number of ways to look at the issue,

1) Judging a player on how well he does at international level is no barometer to judge him on how he will play for his club, I don't think either Messi, or even Steven Gerrard have played as well for their national teams as they have done for their clubs.

2) At international level they play with a differnet set of players and different tactics under a different coach - so that will kind of change the regular performance of a player.

3) Yes - I think English players are over-priced but are they really ? - I mean there have been inter-league tranfers in other top leagues where the price has been a lot more expensive than the recent 20Million we played recently for a player of a higher quality. I think if you look at Spain, Italy - the transfers within teams of that league are at the same prices as they are here on average. You probably won't get that sort of thing in places like France due to the fact that good players in that league will get bought buy big clubs in Spain and Italy.

4) I think there is an element of people watching the foreign leagues and hearing about the great 'Carlol-Kickball' abroad and wished that they played for their team without taking into consideration if they can adopt to the PL, or fit in culturally in this country.

Ultimately - it will all depend on how the manager best uses the player no matter where he is from.
[/quote]

Good point(s) moron.
But it doesn't really answer the original question.

We arguably need another:
left back *
central defender *
winger *
central midfielder/attacker *
striker

* denotes a player that would walk into our starting lineup.

The only British players I'd love to see join us, who are available, are Wickham and Cahill.
Cahill to bolster our starting lineup and Wickham as an understudy to Carroll.

2)4) True, international football differs from league football but Mata ran the show against England. That is against players who are drilled to play English football. If that doesn't prove that he's capable to perform in England I don't what would.

3) Henderson £20 Million, I don't think any league in the world could top that transfer.

 

[Hansern]

Interesting words from Tony Evans: "Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing will be the first stage of spending"


Maybe this can help Modo?

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=45785.msg1351884#msg1351884 date=1308506054]
Interesting words from Tony Evans: "Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing will be the first stage of spending"


Maybe this can help Modo?
[/quote]

i'm on your boat all the way hans

 

[Richey]

Our main priority this season is the league, since we don't have any European football and we can't be going on for too long with that situation.

Therefore we need to improve and do so quickly, so trying to pick up good quality players who are used to playing in the Premier League is a sensible strategy.

For one, they will have less of an adjustment period to the league and shouldn't suffer during the winter months, as some foreign players do.

Also, if they are stand out players in smaller clubs they are more likely to see us as a big step up and rise to the challenge. Its not nice to have to say it but what would really attract a big name foreign player to us right now? No European football so it would have to be money - and look where that has got us!

We are assembling a team that will get us back into Europe. Doesn't mean we can't buy big names next year to either add to them or even replace them does it?

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=45785.msg1351884#msg1351884 date=1308506054]
Interesting words from Tony Evans: "Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing will be the first stage of spending"


Maybe this can help Modo?
[/quote]

Yeah, I heard that interview. It's quite promising but I'd rather we skip to phase 2 instead and get Mata etc.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=45785.msg1351906#msg1351906 date=1308508136]
Our main priority this season is the league, since we don't have any European football and we can't be going on for too long with that situation.

Therefore we need to improve and do so quickly, so trying to pick up good quality players who are used to playing in the Premier League is a sensible strategy.

For one, they will have less of an adjustment period to the league and shouldn't suffer during the winter months, as some foreign players do.

Also, if they are stand out players in smaller clubs they are more likely to see us as a big step up and rise to the challenge. Its not nice to have to say it but what would really attract a big name foreign player to us right now? No European football so it would have to be money - and look where that has got us!

We are assembling a team that will get us back into Europe. Doesn't mean we can't buy big names next year to either add to them or even replace them does it?
[/quote]

I agree and the news about us going for Nzogbia is a step in the right direction. To think of it...any step away from Downing is a step in the right direction.

Nzogbia is on my personal list along with Cahill, Enrique, Mata and Wickham.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Modo link=topic=45785.msg1351909#msg1351909 date=1308508337]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=45785.msg1351906#msg1351906 date=1308508136]
Our main priority this season is the league, since we don't have any European football and we can't be going on for too long with that situation.

Therefore we need to improve and do so quickly, so trying to pick up good quality players who are used to playing in the Premier League is a sensible strategy.

For one, they will have less of an adjustment period to the league and shouldn't suffer during the winter months, as some foreign players do.

Also, if they are stand out players in smaller clubs they are more likely to see us as a big step up and rise to the challenge. Its not nice to have to say it but what would really attract a big name foreign player to us right now? No European football so it would have to be money - and look where that has got us!

We are assembling a team that will get us back into Europe. Doesn't mean we can't buy big names next year to either add to them or even replace them does it?
[/quote]

I agree and the news about us going for Nzogbia is a step in the right direction. To think of it...any step away from Downing is a step in the right direction.

Nzogbia is on my personal list along with Cahill, Enrique, Mata and Wickham.
[/quote]


does n'zogbia qualify as home grown? he spent years with newcastle didn't he?

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45785.msg1351910#msg1351910 date=1308508432]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=45785.msg1351909#msg1351909 date=1308508337]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=45785.msg1351906#msg1351906 date=1308508136]
Our main priority this season is the league, since we don't have any European football and we can't be going on for too long with that situation.

Therefore we need to improve and do so quickly, so trying to pick up good quality players who are used to playing in the Premier League is a sensible strategy.

For one, they will have less of an adjustment period to the league and shouldn't suffer during the winter months, as some foreign players do.

Also, if they are stand out players in smaller clubs they are more likely to see us as a big step up and rise to the challenge. Its not nice to have to say it but what would really attract a big name foreign player to us right now? No European football so it would have to be money - and look where that has got us!

We are assembling a team that will get us back into Europe. Doesn't mean we can't buy big names next year to either add to them or even replace them does it?
[/quote]

I agree and the news about us going for Nzogbia is a step in the right direction. To think of it...any step away from Downing is a step in the right direction.

Nzogbia is on my personal list along with Cahill, Enrique, Mata and Wickham.
[/quote]


does n'zogbia qualify as home grown? he spent years with newcastle didn't he?
[/quote]

Over at Wigan, Charles N’Zogbia – French-born and of Congolese descent – qualified as one of the Latics’ home grown players because Newcastle first brought him to England from Le Havre at 18,

 

[Richey]

Fair enough.

N’Zogbia is not exactly a superstar either and his stats appear to be pretty much the same as Downing though so not sure if he would be that much better.

 

[Fabio]

n'zogbia is definitely an improvement