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Is Henderson our biggest problem?

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
First of all, I want to be respectful to one of the great LFC captains, someone who proved and achieved everything and someone who has been unfairly criticized for years before most people saw his worth. But... After a result and a performance (in fact a string of performances) like this, we need to talk about Hendo.

Fulham – Henderson starts at RCM, then switches to Thiago's position at LCM after the injury and generally looks all over the place. Passing % in the mid-70's, his giveaway leads to one of the goals, he was more visible than some others in trying to drive the team forward, but was forcing it too much and actually putting us under pressure by giving the ball away a lot more often than Fabinho and Elliott did (both were at 85-86%, ten percentage points higher). As a captain he also has to bear some responsibility for the team's lack of intensity and wrong mentality for the season opener. The one thing you could say in his defence is that playing LCM next to Fabinho has never been his favoured position, although he was just as poor at RCM before Thiago got injured.

Palace – Hendo is benched and the team performance is vastly improved from the start. Unfortunately Fabinho has an uneven game and commits a crucial error for the goal. Henderson comes in after we go down to 10 men to partner Fabinho and try to drive the team forward, which to be fair he does pretty well (87% passing accuracy in that cameo).

United – Klopp cannot afford to drop Elliott after the youngster's superb performance vs Palace and Milner is our best available option at LCM, so it's a straight choice between Fabinho and Hendo for the #6 spot and he chooses the captain. Here are some comments on Henderson's performance in this game from football analyst and LFC fan Stephen Drennan:

[During the 1st half]:
"Not been a good start. Second highest in possession losses from both teams, just 70% passing acc, no duels at all or interceptions. Just no protection."

FaydsG4XoAIkvnS

"[Hendo] is in the #6 position on resets. But when play develops he seems to be anywhere but there. Playing straight through that zone with every attack. Brutal to watch right now.
I should add... Trent has had a bad start to the game also. But there is no real choice to be made there. And that isn't the thing that is absolutely collapsing us and letting United dominate the game and run straight through us every attack. Starting to see the cascade too - like the first game against City last season. As more people abandon their roles to try and get things working... we look less and less like ourselves.


We had Diaz and Firmino as a double pivot to build up that attack. Hendo was the #9. Created a chance from it but it isn't functional and if your two risk-taking creative players lose the ball you are wide open with no #6 again. It isn't sustainable.

Plays a 1-2 and is in the box now as a 9. There are 3 United players standing in the space he vacates waiting for a 3-2 overload on our back-2 when the attack breaks down. Watch it back ~38 minutes. Just madness. No positional discipline at all.

Henderson's passing improved in the final ~15 of that half. Before that he was giving it away with 1/3 of his touches which is a nightmare for a 6. But he was still just AWOL as a 6 for almost the entirety of that half. I dare say you are better off with Milner there as he will at least have some discipline. He was the guy dropping in as the 6 when Hendo vacated. Or Firmino - weirdly.

We do have a major problem to solve in that area. I hate to say it but I don't think Hendo can be trusted in big games against good players who will exploit the spaces he vacates like this. And 'good players' increasingly exist in every team. We saw Brighton and Brentford exploit our weaknesses brilliantly last season. You can't play with such obvious weaknesses. Either the player changes, or you change the player.

Lots of replies along the lines for why focus on Hendo or lots of people playing poorly. The difference is, when someone abandons their role and isn't doing the absolute basic requirements in their role - it creates a chain reaction. A domino effect. You HAVE to see that, right?

I think there are differences between people who are struggling to make this work (Salah, Firmino, Diaz) in a team that looks dysfunctional - to those making it dysfunctional. And I tend to focus on the latter. Playing well in spite of dysfunction rarely happens. Think of it as trying to build a house without foundations. If you have no foundations to build your game on then your electricians, brick layers, plasters and everyone else just can't do their jobs either."





And the summary:
"We might be at that point where Klopp needs to decide if he wants to keep Henderson happy for the good of the locker room. Or bench him based on performances for the good of our results. And I think that is a bigger decision than many realise. Hendo won't take it quietly."


==========================================

There are several other knowledgeable football people who expressed the same level of exasperation over Hendo's indiscipline in the #6 role against United and we all saw those unbelievable gaps in midfield with our own eyes – as a #6 AND a captain, it's most definitely Hendo's responsibility to not only position himself well defensively, but also direct his two midfield partners to close the gaps on both sides, to make sure they are also switched on to their defensive responsibilities. Instead, we have a player who goes AWOL in the one position where you absolutely have to be disciplined and forces others to cover for him, destroying our midfield structure and cohesion. That Klopp substituted Henderson first and not the tiring Milner spoke volumes.

Before the season started most of us assumed that Elliott, Keita and others will probably end up playing most minutes in the RCM spot, but Hendo was accepted a fine option as an alternative to Fabinho at #6 – in fact many of us remember that performance vs Inter Milan when he came on for Fabs and notably improved the speed of our passing in that game. But there is no hiding from reality – Henderson has started the season in awful form no matter which midfield position he played in and I'm starting to think that the looming decision over his role in the team might be the thing that creates tension in the squad and drags the whole team down. Klopp always had reservations about Hendo at RCM and even last season he was already willing to drop him in favour of Elliott in that position – so now it's come to either covering for Thiago in the uncomfortable LCM role or taking away Fabinho's #6 – and I can imagine that as a naturally conflict-averse person Fabinho feels a bit caught between a rock a hard place here, which could affect his performance levels.

Last season one of the players – Mane I think – was asked who are the best and the worst trainers in the squad and he said Hendo was definitely the laziest, which surprised me at the time, however it makes sense for a player with declining physical ability to try to "save" himself during training sessions – in that way Hendo is a polar opposite of Milner. The World Cup thing adds another level – Hendo absolutely cannot afford to lose his starting place in the months before the WC and is trying too hard and forcing things, which only makes it worse.

If there is a silver lining to the Old Trafford debacle is that it could make up Klopp's mind for him. All evidence points to the obvious decision that Henderson should lose his starting place in the team until he forces his way back in training and hopefully with exceptional performances as a sub. If we need to change the system to have fewer midfield spots until Thiago comes back, this also could be a good time to do it. Every team we play from now on will be licking their lips thinking about those giant green spaces in front of our defensive line – we need to decisively put a stop to it, to have not one but two disciplined CMs patrolling that area at all times and to let the front 4 do most of the running, pressing and risk-taking – fortunately we have plenty of younger, eager players in that department. On reflection, this team is not, cannot possibly be nearly as bad as what we saw against Fulham and United – but we will only turn it around if Klopp makes a big decision on Hendo and also tweaks the tactics to suit the team we currently have.
 
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It's really simple actually.

We just need a bloody good midfielder who can hold the ball and give everyone that extra few seconds to turn on baller mode. It isn't rocket science and everyone on this forum have been crying out for this sort of MF, but for whatever reason, we ain't going out to get him. Thiago's the closest we've got so it's no surprise our form has nosedived the min he's out injured.

Also, I don't even know who that is anymore. Jude's good but kinda missing something imo, plus he's not available this season, and as for the rest, they ain't your Zidanes or Iniestas either who are worth breaking the bank, so maybe that's why there's that hesitation and unwillingness to spend big. And so the coaching dept prolly thought since there isn't much to look at in the transfer market, let's take a punt with the kids instead.

The problem is you can only really tell if it's gonna turn out well, after 10 games or more.
 
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On Hendo: Not really, but he shouldn't be starting most games anymore.

"We just need a bloody good midfielder who can hold the ball and give everyone that extra few seconds to turn on baller mode."

I suspect this is why Firmino was so deep last night. He can keep the ball a bit and not shit his pants.
 
Henderson's peak was arguably the season we won the European Cup. I do wonder given the physical exertion playing under Klopp whether a player's decline is more marked. We're probably, however, looking at the results of a natural drop off in ability coupled with, I think, a general mental and physical tiredness as a result of last season. Either way, we should have been looking to phase Hendo out of a first choice midfield this summer at the very latest. Bringing in Bellingham, who sees Henderson as something of a mentor, would have helped both players.
 
His legs have gone, at some point last season he hit a wall physically, too many miles on the clock. He's started something like 8 of the last 14 games going back to last season. And even when he does start he's frequently hooked around 60 mins. It's not surprising given his playing style that he is not going to be one of those guys that plays at the highest level deep into his 30s. He's a grafter, his game is built in intensity and work rate. Klopps midfield is largely built on the same characteristics. Hendo really doesn't bring much to the table once you take that away.

We have a data team that collects detailed performance stats on all our players, and yet seemingly nobody at the club is concerned he's fallen off a cliff in terms of every available metric.
 
The way we play the 4-3-3 has changed since Thiago's arrival. The natural inclination of the Fabinho-Thiago pairing is that they revert to a double pivot with the third midfielder (Henderson or Elliott) allowed to drift wide and also to support the 9 (Jota or Darwin) if necessary. There's also the Trent drifting inwards experiment as the third mid provides the width on the right.

Now Fabinho-Thiago can do a pretty solid job positionally, and they control the game well when they're fit and available. In theory, Fabinho-Thiago with Elliott at RCM can be a competent midfield provided we have Konate's pace and athleticism covering the space behind, and also the power of Darwin or the goal threat of Jota keeping the CBs totally occupied.

That can work, but that's now literally the only 3-man combination that works without any alternatives. That's without even going into Thiago's injury proneness or Fabinho's bad form.

Unfortunately, I think the Thiago experiment has run its course. Great player, he was supposed to give us something different and help us land some trophies in the short term. Which he did, except the trophies weren't the ones we really wanted.

Going forward, if Klopp is to recreate his 2017-2020 version of Liverpool which can again compete for titles, he needs to construct a new version of the Wijnaldum-Fabinho-Henderson midfield. That's the only way forward, and it requires dipping into the transfer market. There is no other way, no matter how many times Klopp denies it.
 
"We might be at that point where Klopp needs to decide if he wants to keep Henderson happy for the good of the locker room. Or bench him based on performances for the good of our results. And I think that is a bigger decision than many realise. Hendo won't take it quietly.".


Would Hendo not do what's best for the team?
He doesn't come off as a player who wouldn't work even harder in an attempt to rectify the issues (if doable)?
If not, and he'll down tools, bye bye.
 
The way we play the 4-3-3 has changed since Thiago's arrival. The natural inclination of the Fabinho-Thiago pairing is that they revert to a double pivot with the third midfielder (Henderson or Elliott) allowed to drift wide and also to support the 9 (Jota or Darwin) if necessary. There's also the Trent drifting inwards experiment as the third mid provides the width on the right.

Now Fabinho-Thiago can do a pretty solid job positionally, and they control the game well when they're fit and available. In theory, Fabinho-Thiago with Elliott at RCM can be a competent midfield provided we have Konate's pace and athleticism covering the space behind, and also the power of Darwin or the goal threat of Jota keeping the CBs totally occupied.

That can work, but that's now literally the only 3-man combination that works without any alternatives. That's without even going into Thiago's injury proneness or Fabinho's bad form.

Unfortunately, I think the Thiago experiment has run its course. Great player, he was supposed to give us something different and help us land some trophies in the short term. Which he did, except the trophies weren't the ones we really wanted.

Going forward, if Klopp is to recreate his 2017-2020 version of Liverpool which can again compete for titles, he needs to construct a new version of the Wijnaldum-Fabinho-Henderson midfield. That's the only way forward, and it requires dipping into the transfer market. There is no other way, no matter how many times Klopp denies it.

Not sure I fully agree with the last paragraph, but great post.
 
The way we play the 4-3-3 has changed since Thiago's arrival. The natural inclination of the Fabinho-Thiago pairing is that they revert to a double pivot with the third midfielder (Henderson or Elliott) allowed to drift wide and also to support the 9 (Jota or Darwin) if necessary. There's also the Trent drifting inwards experiment as the third mid provides the width on the right.

Now Fabinho-Thiago can do a pretty solid job positionally, and they control the game well when they're fit and available. In theory, Fabinho-Thiago with Elliott at RCM can be a competent midfield provided we have Konate's pace and athleticism covering the space behind, and also the power of Darwin or the goal threat of Jota keeping the CBs totally occupied.

That can work, but that's now literally the only 3-man combination that works without any alternatives. That's without even going into Thiago's injury proneness or Fabinho's bad form.

Unfortunately, I think the Thiago experiment has run its course. Great player, he was supposed to give us something different and help us land some trophies in the short term. Which he did, except the trophies weren't the ones we really wanted.

Going forward, if Klopp is to recreate his 2017-2020 version of Liverpool which can again compete for titles, he needs to construct a new version of the Wijnaldum-Fabinho-Henderson midfield. That's the only way forward, and it requires dipping into the transfer market. There is no other way, no matter how many times Klopp denies it
.

Fully agree with this.

Klopp's midfield - when we were in our pomp - needed midfielders who could run for hours and impose themselves.
NOthing special was necessary in terms of assists, goals etc - that would come from the back and front line.
 
Would Hendo not do what's best for the team?
He doesn't come off as a player who wouldn't work even harder in an attempt to rectify the issues (if doable)?
If not, and he'll down tools, bye bye.

Why would he down tools? He's been an ultra pro since being here and I doubt he'd want to be anywhere else other than helping the team in any capacity he can.

Our first choice midfielders are 4 lads in the region of 30+. He's not "the" problem, the issue is that the 4 first choice midfielders are past their best, the players we should be putting in the mix are either inexperienced, inconsistent or injured.

I agree the phase out has been delayed and we are now paying for that mistake, but all 4 of those players have a part to play. City fans cried to get Kompany out the team, we ran rings around him in the CL, yet when their title challenge faltered he offered the cool head and experience they needed at a crucial time and he pushed them over the line for the title. That's where the likes of Henderson should have been now. Milner should be an emergency option, but for sheer balance they shouldn't be in a midfield together ever. Klopp got it wrong but his options are limited.

I said at the start of the season we would struggle for goals, that's a huge factor in anything (3 out, 1 in is a travesty), but this is starting to look every inch the transition year we really didn't need to be having. FSG have held us back since winning the league, for all their successful moneyball approach, it doesn't factor in that sometimes you just have to put your money in your pocket to bolster your squad.

United fans kicking off again at the Glaziers, they don't know they're fucking born.
 
The way we play the 4-3-3 has changed since Thiago's arrival. The natural inclination of the Fabinho-Thiago pairing is that they revert to a double pivot with the third midfielder (Henderson or Elliott) allowed to drift wide and also to support the 9 (Jota or Darwin) if necessary. There's also the Trent drifting inwards experiment as the third mid provides the width on the right.

Now Fabinho-Thiago can do a pretty solid job positionally, and they control the game well when they're fit and available. In theory, Fabinho-Thiago with Elliott at RCM can be a competent midfield provided we have Konate's pace and athleticism covering the space behind, and also the power of Darwin or the goal threat of Jota keeping the CBs totally occupied.

That can work, but that's now literally the only 3-man combination that works without any alternatives. That's without even going into Thiago's injury proneness or Fabinho's bad form.

Unfortunately, I think the Thiago experiment has run its course. Great player, he was supposed to give us something different and help us land some trophies in the short term. Which he did, except the trophies weren't the ones we really wanted.

Going forward, if Klopp is to recreate his 2017-2020 version of Liverpool which can again compete for titles, he needs to construct a new version of the Wijnaldum-Fabinho-Henderson midfield. That's the only way forward, and it requires dipping into the transfer market. There is no other way, no matter how many times Klopp denies it.

This is spot on. I think we've also seen a decline in the level of passing from our defence and midfield since it has been so easy to put everything through Thiago. We have made so many sloppy passes in these three games.
 
If we switch to a 4231 that might be the best option. I'm not sure any of the others have it in them at the moment.

4-2-3-1 sort of makes sense right now, even if its just to get a competent goal scorer (Salah) closer to goal.

Give Elliott more freedom and the right hand role in the "3" and then take a gamble on Carvalho in the number 10 role. He looks like a player who might actually be able to create something.

I really dont want Firmino starting again.
 
Henderson is a problem sure but he's not THE problem. The problem - as it kinda always has been - is that we are a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. It's that kind of platform that elevated the likes of Robertson et al to "best in their position" claims. That's why most players look lost when the system goes to shit and we all look on in bewilderment as our supposed world class players put in barely believable 3-4/10 type performances.

Henderson in a fully strength team can be carried (though not twice a week). Henderson in a severely weakened team is another matter. Ditto Milner. Ditto Firmino. And same with a bunch of other players unfortunately.

TAA is getting a whole ton of shit but his whole role on the side is predicated on the system supporting him and ensuring his (considerable) strengths outweigh his weaknesses. We know he needs strong support from the midfield and cover from the CB - right now he's getting neither.

<snark>Anyways, we were told that we have 8 midfielders or something in the squad earlier in the summer so we should have no problems finding solutions.</snark>
 
Our issue is we never got a CM, we went into a new season with Thiago, Ox, Keita and CJ all injury prone.
Now owners need to get the book out and get a CM and also a RW.
 
We also have too few options to change the way we play. We've gone years without ever rotating our full backs and they have started the year very ineffective.
 
Henderson is a problem sure but he's not THE problem. The problem - as it kinda always has been - is that we are a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. It's that kind of platform that elevated the likes of Robertson et al to "best in their position" claims. That's why most players look lost when the system goes to shit and we all look on in bewilderment as our supposed world class players put in barely believable 3-4/10 type performances.

Henderson in a fully strength team can be carried (though not twice a week). Henderson in a severely weakened team is another matter. Ditto Milner. Ditto Firmino. And same with a bunch of other players unfortunately.

TAA is getting a whole ton of shit but his whole role on the side is predicated on the system supporting him and ensuring his (considerable) strengths outweigh his weaknesses. We know he needs strong support from the midfield and cover from the CB - right now he's getting neither.

<snark>Anyways, we were told that we have 8 midfielders or something in the squad earlier in the summer so we should have no problems finding solutions.</snark>

I agree with all of that, but the problem with Trent is more or less the same as the problem with the rest, he can only play one way and can only do that when we play well. When we need him to dig in and forget his strengths for 5 minutes, he just can't. And the issue then is that he doesn't have the composure to put his foot on the ball and help dictate the play. It's all rushed passes and trying to play the Hollywood ball that doesn't come off. He has the experience now to be much better, yet Rashford and co did exactly the same to him last night, as they were doing to him 4-5yrs ago. That's astonishingly bad.

Klopp has developed a machine rather than just a talented group of individuals, but where he falls short is knowing when to alternate that. It's been time to mix it up for a while and to show a bit of faith in other players and he seems either or unwilling to, or too loyal to players well past their sell-by date.

As you say, Henderson and co have a part to play, but they need their minutes managed correctly. None of our 29+ players should be ever presents now. Allison should again step aside for Keleher in the domestic cups, VVD needs a breather now and then, Milner is for cups and emergencies, Henderson should be there for certain games and a cool head when needed, Firmino should have been further down the pecking order than Minamino and Origi last season. I still maintain it was a big mistake letting both of them go. Now is exactly the time where one of them could and probably would have made a difference in at least one of the last three games.

I really don't want to see Klopp lose his way, and in many ways he was right last night, that you change a couple of things there and it would make all the difference, you could see the plus signs last night and unfortunately it came from players we have all been crying out to see more of (Elliott and Carvalho). The issue goes beyond that though, as effective as our system is when it works well and everyone is firing, when it's not it becomes really easy to exploit and teams are doing it far more frequently than they were. Which suggests either the system is failing and teams are wise to it, or that we no longer have the players to execute it well. Or both. Either way, not for the first time during Klopp's reign, he needs to show he has something else up his sleeve and that he's not a one (very successful) trick pony.
 
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I’m not really interested in singling out Henderson when our succession planning in midfield has been shite and he’s not the only one to drop off.

But i just wanted to point out the other issue we’re facing - 5 subs. Yea the top clubs benefit more with their depth but how many times have we gone a goal down or had a goalless first half knowing we’d edge it over the 90. Now the opposition are free to chuck on a load of fresh legs towards the end.

To magnify the problem the current depth of our squad is paddling pool like (shallow and full of children).
 
He is not the problem. Yes, he’s a lesser player than before and he’s not capable of doing things that he previously could. That’s not his fault.

Our management is the problem— we’ve held onto players past their peak and still expect them to perform at that top level. Madness. The signs of Firmino, Henderson and to a certain extent Fabinho’s decline have evident for some time. I despaired when, right through preseason, Klopp sounded perplexed at questions about the midfield, letting all those listening know how many we had. True, we have 9 midfielders on the books but how many of them could be relied on to dominate and win a game? It turns out that two at best, and they’re hardly ever available. and it’s pure wonder nobody saw this one coming and did something about it.

The Liverpool managers of old knew when to move players on. Klopp and his team seemingly don’t. But that’s why we have director of football. He should have been ruthless and let Firmino go when juventus came sniffing, released Oxlade Chamberlain when he was rumoured to be attracting interest from some team in the capital.

We’re where we are, I’m afraid, and I expect we’ll plod on but unless we shake things up massively, such as taking a punt on some of the youngsters when things are not going well, forget the title and even top 4.
 
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I’m not really interested in singling out Henderson when our succession planning in midfield has been shite and he’s not the only one to drop off.

But i just wanted to point out the other issue we’re facing - 5 subs. Yea the top clubs benefit more with their depth but how many times have we gone a goal down or had a goalless first half knowing we’d edge it over the 90. Now the opposition are free to chuck on a load of fresh legs towards the end.

To magnify the problem the current depth of our squad is paddling pool like (shallow and full of children).
Klopp dislikes moving players on, it seems to me.
 
Klopp dislikes moving players on, it seems to me.

I guess it's symptomatic of our financial issues. I don't think we can always attract big players and big contracts and that's where it becomes easier to put too much in faith in what we already have. Robbo, Salah, Henderson and others are now all on big lengthy contracts and it just becomes a vicious circle. We likely had to get Mane off the wage bill to free up money for Salah's contract, or the purchase of Nunez. When arguably there were a couple of players who should have been shipped on instead and we should have done our upmost to keep Mane, but then Mane would have been put on a big contract and could easily have deteriorated within a season or two. As we've said, we've left decisions too late with a lot of these players and it's now costing us on the pitch and in terms of wages.

Someone made a point earlier that maybe Klopp's system takes it out of players and makes them deteriorate quicker. Maybe there's some truth in that. There has certainly been times where I've felt that too many players have hit a brick wall at once. Maybe that just shows where they are all at "in the moment" in terms of match fitness, but it's a worrying trend that a few have seemed to tail off at the same time.
 
We have a problem of balance. If we're going to persist with Trent at RB, we need Henderson at RCM or someone who plays like him with a bit more quality on the ball (shame we didn't get Touchameni). You simply cannot play a playmaker in Harvey Elliott as a RCM with Trent and Salah on that side too; far too attacking. Who is going to do all the defending? Gomez was left totally exposed last night.

 
We have a problem of balance. If we're going to persist with Trent at RB, we need Henderson at RCM or someone who plays like him with a bit more quality on the ball (shame we didn't get Touchameni). You simply cannot play a playmaker in Harvey Elliott as a RCM with Trent and Salah on that side too; far too attacking. Who is going to do all the defending? Gomez was left totally exposed last night.



But what's the bigger problem though? When Gomez was asked to defend, he was fucking dire. It wasn't just down to being exposed, it was poor defending. Him and Trent between them should have handled a couple of their attacks, yet I lost count of how many times the pair of them were taken the absolute piss out of. That one on one with Gomez where he went in half arsed and turned his back on the ball - laughable. Almost as bad as VVD standing there with his hands behind his back flat footed and not attacking Sancho at all for the goal. There's being exposed to breaks and trying to solve it, and there's just bad defending. Too many times last night it was the latter.

Previously we could rely on individual defensive brilliance to bail us out of counter attacks, we don't have that now, other than with Allison. If anyone else is asked to defend any sort of attack, they utterly crumble.

I do think sides have got wise at how to exploit us, Robbo doesn't normally get done as much as he did last night, we had an off night all over, but it's rare he gets targeted and beaten. Trent gets targeted and beaten too regularly and it's been happening for years. Klopp has sacrificed any sort of defensive stability on that side to give Trent free reign. When it doesn't work, neither Klopp nor Trent have a clue what to do.
 
I dont think thats true in all honesty. Usually a Matip - Virgil or a Konate - Virgil duo can handle most attacks against us. They did that brilliantly last season. Gomez is our 4th CB for a reason.

The injuries and aging midfield that we have to start now gives us an unbalance that is reminiscent of the 20/21 CB less debacle that made our side look very exposed.
We dont have the personnel to play the way Klopp wants to when certain key parts are missing.

Hendo is a big part of that problem now but they must have thought he had at least one more season in the tank. So far it doesnt look like that is the case.

Hendo, Keita, Ox and Milner. Not one of them are good enough or can be counted on a regular basis.
Milner is kinda excused because he is already playing much more then anyone would have thought in all honesty.
 
But what's the bigger problem though? When Gomez was asked to defend, he was fucking dire. It wasn't just down to being exposed, it was poor defending. Him and Trent between them should have handled a couple of their attacks, yet I lost count of how many times the pair of them were taken the absolute piss out of. That one on one with Gomez where he went in half arsed and turned his back on the ball - laughable. Almost as bad as VVD standing there with his hands behind his back flat footed and not attacking Sancho at all for the goal. There's being exposed to breaks and trying to solve it, and there's just bad defending. Too many times last night it was the latter.

Previously we could rely on individual defensive brilliance to bail us out of counter attacks, we don't have that now, other than with Allison. If anyone else is asked to defend any sort of attack, they utterly crumble.

I do think sides have got wise at how to exploit us, Robbo doesn't normally get done as much as he did last night, we had an off night all over, but it's rare he gets targeted and beaten. Trent gets targeted and beaten too regularly and it's been happening for years. Klopp has sacrificed any sort of defensive stability on that side to give Trent free reign. When it doesn't work, neither Klopp nor Trent have a clue what to do.

Gomez doesn't concern me as much as he's 4th choice at CB and has come in from the cold and been totally exposed. Sure, he could have done better in moments, but the whole defence had very little protection.

The bigger issue for me is about the balance of the team. We've totally lost it recently.

Diaz doesn't give us the same threat Mane did, or have the same defensive protection Mane did, as evidenced in the CL final where failed to cover Robbo who lost the ball going forward for their goal. This also means we need more threat from our CF. Bobby gives us nothing at CF, but nice touches here or there. We can't play with him as a false 9 anymore without a CF in front of him. Nunez has good movement and could get a lot of goals if only the man could trap a ball and strike it cleanly. I sense he will get into many goalscoring positions when played, but fuck it up due to a poor touch/finish.

Also, the right hand side has been completely unbalanced by trying to play Elliot as mentioned previously.

Even we had Konate there (who is a beast as shown in CL final), he's being asked to do too much defending when Trent, Harvey and Mo are all forward.

Moreover, I love TAA but he's playing like a half-arsed mong right now. The man can't even be arsed to run back. He needs to be either moved into midfield or dropped until he gets his act together, and fast.

I think a quick fix is to switch to a 4-2-3-1. Fab and Hendo CM. Diaz, Carvalho/Bobby, Elliott 3. Salah up top, until Nunez/Jota gets back.
 
I'd rather go all out with a 4-2-2-2 against Bournemouth.

Alisson
Trent Gomez Virgil Robbo
Fabs Hendo
Elliott Carvalho
Salah Diaz
 
I think we need to stop thinking about tinkering with the same players in central midfield— Henderson and Fabinho— and expect a different level of performance and results. Twenty minutes into the match, Henderson was blowing outta his arse (Milner was more mobile and effective.) We really need both energy and brains there. I like Carvalho starting, though.
 
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